A question for Jungians

I hope I don't disappoint anyone: my question is not really about Jung's theories and practices. Rather, it's about a purported idea of one of his disciples, Aniela Jaffe.
(And only a dedicated "Jungian" is likely to be familiar with her name and work, which is why I addressed my appeal to "Jungians".)

Years ago, I read in a book - don't remember which one, but I think it was by M. L. von Franz - that Aniela Jaffe thought that people had a sort of prescience of their own "fate" or "destiny".

Unfortunately, this comment wasn't accompanied by a customary footnote reference. Even if it was merely an "oral information" - and I suspect it was - it should've been duly referenced.

But it wasn't.

And so, I am asking you: if anyone knows the source of this piece of information, or could corroborate it in any other way, please let me know.

Thanks!





[edit on 27-2-2008 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas

I'm not sure of the reference you speak of, Vanitas. However, I think the whole idea of "positive affirmation" is valid, and works at a level that may be physical as opposed to metaphysical.

Scott Adams (best known for creating the "Dilbert" comic strip) wrote something that had a profound and unlikely influence on me. In his book "Dilbert Future" he devotes as his last chapter a rather serious dissertation on quantum mechanics, the double slit experiment, chaos theory, and achieving farfetched reality strictly through belief. (Strange that I would be so influenced by someone mainly noted for writing a cartoon!)

#

Question for you, Vanitas: I remember a post about a month ago where you cited some Talmudic paper that had a tie into quantum mechanics, fate, predestination. Did you finish that? Can you link back to that thread?

Thanks!

reply to post by Buck Division




I can see that my question came out a bit more convoluted that I had intended...
I simply meant to ask whether anyone knows, did Aniela Jaffe really say/think/write about people "sensing" their own future, their own "destiny", in advance - and where can I read about it.
(Because, obviously, that would have huge implications - and seeing that she was a Jungian to the core, it would be interesting to see how she tied this concept with other Jungian concepts. Perhaps she even discussed it with Jung himself?)

As for my post, I think you meant this one?

Teshuva

I did assimilate it, I think.
It's too soon to tell... ;-)




[edit on 27-2-2008 by Vanitas]

All that thread was a tsimtsum so far.

I believe the book you're talking about is Memories, Dreams and Reflections which was recorded and edited by Jaffe.

I talk about that very subject in my thread;

Jungian Dream Analysis: Roots of Religion and How the Unconscious 'Sees' Our Personal Future.

Or...

It could be Man and his Symbols, which WAS written by ML von Franz, JL Henderson, J Jacobi and Jaffe.

I also discuss that particular book in the thread indicated in the post above

Originally posted by masqua
Or...

It could be Man and his Symbols, which WAS written by ML von Franz, JL Henderson, J Jacobi and Jaffe.

Could be - I am going to check it out now (I know it's somewhere in my library).

It definitely isn't Jung's bio (I should know: it's literally my bedside book ; ),

And I definitely look forward to exploring your thread (at a less ungodly hour )

Thanks!

Originally posted by Rigel

All that thread was a tsimtsum so far.

Hey - whatever it takes for God not to blink...

reply to post by Vanitas

Thanks, Vanitas. That's the thread I was looking for. Pretty amazing article you sited there!

I think Jung was very close to something, and maybe dead on, especially with regard to collective unconsciousness, and also synchronicity.

I will take a look at the other references above also. (Thanks Masqua!)

I recall reading some book by Jung: "The Psychology of the Unconsciousness" I think it was. That was a long time ago. It's probably stuck in my unconscious mind somewhere. (Or maybe in "our" unconscious mind?)

UPDATE

I haven't found the reference (yet) in any of the books in my library.

But I did find an oblique reference, as it were, online, in the Jung e-journal:

Synchronicity in the 21st Century

(The last time I searched online for the reference in question was before April 2006, when this issue appeared. I am including the URL because it might be of interest to other people.)


Based on the bibliography, I suspect now that the reference came from Jaffe's book "Apparitions".









[edit on 29-2-2008 by Vanitas]

Here is also a small reference;

MAN AND HIS SYMBOLS Part 1: Approaching the Unconscious, by CG Jung and ML von Franz, JL Henderson, J jacobi and A Jaffe, published by Dell [Copyright 1964 Aldus Books, Limited, London (ISBN: 0-440-35183-5)


Experience shows that the approach of death casts an adumbratio (an anticipatory shadow) over the life and dreams of the victim. Even an altar in Christian churches represents, on one hand, a tomb, and on the other, a place of resurrection- the transformation of death into eternal life.

At least it's another hint towards what it is you're looking for.

reply to post by Vanitas



i thought that general idea was found in a wide variety of thought & teaching... including Gurdjieff

link to a synopsis: bmrc.berkeley.edu...

i thought that general idea was found in a wide variety of thought & teaching... including Gurdjieff

Of course it was; it may very well be one of the oldest concepts that humanity has ever developed.
(It doesn't mean, however, that I am convinced about the existence of predetermination - and I definitely envy those who have absolute faith in "fate". : ))

I was interested specifically in Aniela Jaffe's views on the matter (as reported by M. L. von Franz).