Mayan Calendar: The 5th Night, March/April 2008

reply to post by xnibirux


I've taken a look around, and you know what I've seen? People preaching an easy end yo difficulties that could be overcome if people got together and tried. Instead of that though, people call on God, or prophecies, or aliens, saying that the problems will solve themselves in a short time. They won't.
The problems range from everyday life to something traumatic, war, plagues, famine, whatever. And a quick solution is what we all want, but even if one appears despite all reasons to the contrary, they never last.
Something quick to come is quick to leave.
In a few months time when there is no end to the economy, what will you do then? Do something about it, or make another date, and put off doing something that could change the world?

Go ahead and laugh . I would expect nothing less from people like you; people who do not look at the world around them enough to realize that something detrimental to humanity is quickly coming to an end.

And I expect nothing less from people like you. There are NO EASY ANSWERS to humanities problems, only difficult ones. No freebies. No ascension. No higher enlightenment that will magically free us from ourselves. We will exist or cease to do so based on what we do or don't do as a species.

Originally posted by xnibirux
Whether you guys like it or not, integrity will override power within a months time, you will see.

I look forward to your post in this thread in 4 weeks.

Originally posted by cormac mac airt

And I expect nothing less from people like you. There are NO EASY ANSWERS to humanities problems, only difficult ones. No freebies. No ascension. No higher enlightenment that will magically free us from ourselves. We will exist or cease to do so based on what we do or don't do as a species.

You're right, we realize that something has gone wrong and now we will do something about it and this is what will be done, all on our own! We finally realize that enough is enough.

Therefore to RuneSpider:

This has nothing to do with 'people calling on God, or prophecies, or aliens, saying that the problems will solve themselves.' WE are solely responsible for what's to come.

[edit on 10-3-2008 by xnibirux]

Ok so a baktun is 395 years, but this fact will not stop the energies of Venus from opening our heart chakras in the first weeks of March. These energies are just the beginning of our changing conciousness from power to integrity

Xinibrux, I turned my back on this thread because frankly I viewed it as a case closed. Now I discover that the entire basis for the OP has been overturned and disproven, that you admit as much, but you're still attempting to suggest your theory is true!

May I ask, what was your motivation for posting in the first place? Did you seek to persuade, to make aware, or to create some sort of mass hysteria? I don't see how you can do any of those things with an argument that is demonstrably incorrect.

To clarify - your entire argument is justified by pointing to a supposed link between certain events in history and a calendar carved in stone many hundreds of years ago. You point to a particular feature of this calendar - namely the 5th night, as being the relevant factor. You dismiss my response to your theory as being incorrect on the basis of shortening time periods. You then accept that you are wrong to do so, because your definition of those time periods is wrong. Can I ask you then to return to my original response, whose key points are repeated below, and answer them in the light of the fact that your initial dismissal has been proven wrong?

- How can you tie an event like the extinction of the dinosaurs, for which there is a projected period of history that spans 10 million years, to a specific date/period in the Mayan calendar?

- How can you tie a probably fictional event, and at the very least one that has no certain date or location, like the destruction of the Tower of Babel, to a specific date/period in the Mayan calendar?

- How can you tie a period of social upheaval that wasn't a single event at all, but a series of different events that had different causes and effects, like the fall of the Roman Empire, to a specific date/period in the Mayan calendar?

You can say we're missing the point, or that we can say what we like, and that our chakras are going to do loop the loops round Venus, or whatever it is - but actually all we're doing is responding to your OP, isn't it? So we're not missing the point, we're responding to the point you made, and proving it wrong, aren't we?

This is a conspiracy site, but it is an intelligent conspiracy site - if you post nonsense and it demonstrably nonsense, the chances are that demonstration will happen. That's what's happened here. I was right - the case IS closed. Now can we please stop this endless attention seeking, scare mongering drivel and move ON.

LW

LW, this isn't a theory nor am I trying to convince or persuade anyone at all. I am in no way offended by anyone but you seem to feel very strongly towards what I have stated. My threads are created so that one can find importance and have a clear discussion concerning their curiosities on the particular subject through questioning, not to try and 'prove someone wrong' through questioning, that I find very immature (no offense). Either believe it and have a nice discussion, or don't and move on.

[edit on 10-3-2008 by xnibirux]

Originally posted by xnibirux
LW, this isn't a theory nor am I trying to convince or persuade anyone at all. I am in no way offended by anyone but you seem to feel very strongly towards what I have stated. My threads are created so that one can find importance and have a clear discussion concerning their curiosities on the particular subject through questioning, not to try and 'prove someone wrong' through questioning, that I find very immature (no offense). Either believe it and have a nice discussion, or don't and move on.

[edit on 10-3-2008 by xnibirux]

The truth is I never used to get too involved with threads on this subject - the reason being, quite simply, I didn't believe it and wasn't very interested in debating it.

I became more inclined to comment on threads like these when I read a thread from a poster who had said that they had become deeply affected by the 2012 doom mongering. Other people posted to say similar things. I suddenly became aware that people were actively changing their way of life, and I was reading things along the lines of "I love my wife and kids very much but ultimately they don't believe what I believe, so my only option is to leave them behind and go and hide underground with a thousand cans of baked beans..."

That thread, and the similar stories I read on these boards, affected me deeply. Friends I made on other sites seemed to be having their whole lives taken over by end-of-the-world stories - other sites (Project Camelot) simply got ruined by endless 2012 rubbish - none of which was backed up by even the slightest shred of evidence. Well, I'm keen that people can say what they like - but I'm protective of ATS, which I uphold as the only sensible conspiracy website on the net, and of friends who have been upset. It seems to me this represents the most dangerous end of conspiracy theory - where people act on what they read and their loved ones' lives are affected as well.

Since then I have sought to challenge anyone who posts from a position of assumed authority I don't think they can justify. Unfortunately there are many threads started on these boards that assert as fact doomsday theories that have no evidence to back them up. That's all very well if you post an idea in Skunk works, state at the beginning of your thread "this is just my theory, but..." and then go on with what you want to say.

But if you present an argument in a forum that you state is evidence of a coming disaster - it's my view that you need to be prepared to back that argument up, or you shouldn't be posting it at all. I uphold the right of people to say what they want on these boards, and theorise what they wish - but I also reserve the right to fight back against baseless, wild fantasies dressed up as facts. People are demonstrably influenced by such claims, I think posters have a responsibility to bear that in mind before they post.

I contest your labelling of "proving someone wrong by questioning" as "immature" - surely that's an entirely reasonable method of arguing your side of a debate? On the contrary, it seems to me that posting an argument that does not stand up to questioning is immature. I don't want to descend to an argument about who's more mature, though, Xinibrux - I just want you to answer the questions I raised in my last post.

LW

To LW:

I'll answer your questions but know that nothing I have stated was meant to be an argument.

First question: "How can you tie an event like the extinction of the dinosaurs, for which there is a projected period of history that spans 10 million years, to a specific date/period in the Mayan calendar?"

First answer: Exacty that! The 5th night those many years ago spanned 10 million years. There is no specific date, just a specific time period of the mayan calendar. Yes the extinction of the dinosaurs was on a specific date, that was the start of the momentum's building blocks, it was in the time range of the 5th night, which spanned 10 million years then, as opposed to 360 days now.

Second question: "How can you tie a probably fictional event, and at the very least one that has no certain date or location, like the destruction of the Tower of Babel, to a specific date/period in the Mayan calendar?"

Second answer: Everyone thought Noah's Ark was fictional, but they actually found the Ark! Thus the probable cause of why the time period of the destruction of the Tower of Babel was translated accordingly from the Mayan Calendar. It is not quite so fictional just because it was in the bible like Noah's Ark. Again, no specific date, just a specific location on the Mayan Calendar, the 5th night.

Third question: "How can you tie a period of social upheaval that wasn't a single event at all, but a series of different events that had different causes and effects, like the fall of the Roman Empire, to a specific date/period in the Mayan calendar?"

Third answer: From the beginning, the events on the 5th night were on a much larger scale, as a result, the events that occured were on a much shorter scale. Therefore, the fall of the Roman Empire being a much longer period of time (a series of events) is because the fall was on a smaller scale.

Thus the reason our current 5th night is a much longer series of events is because it is on a smaller scale. (not a meteor ending our civilization) Think of our economy, large, like a glacier that is melting. Well it doesn't collapse quickly at all, the momentum builds. Our economy is huge that's why. Within that melting of the glacier is a series of events, like the fall of the Roman Empire.

[edit on 10-3-2008 by xnibirux]

reply to post by xnibirux


What I mean is, every time a new "World's end" or "the world as we know it will end" prophecy comes about it's attributed to science, legend, myth, ect.
Or just feelings and belief. This is people's proof. When it doesn't happen, a new date is chosen based on such and such evidence someone comes up with. So yeah, it's us. It always is us, and always will be. But we keep waiting for the end instead of doing something about it. No one actively either seeks it out, or tries to avert the supposed tragedy. They just sit on their butts, making their predictions. When something happens they inevitably say some analog of "Told you so!" Even if it's only technicaly similar and totally off the date they predicted.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by xnibirux

 

What I mean is, every time a new "World's end" or "the world as we know it will end" prophecy comes about it's attributed to science, legend, myth, ect.
Or just feelings and belief. This is people's proof. When it doesn't happen, a new date is chosen based on such and such evidence someone comes up with. So yeah, it's us. It always is us, and always will be. But we keep waiting for the end instead of doing something about it. No one actively either seeks it out, or tries to avert the supposed tragedy. They just sit on their butts, making their predictions. When something happens they inevitably say some analog of "Told you so!" Even if it's only technicaly similar and totally off the date they predicted.

Have you ever heard of David Wilcock? He has uses a lot of science to back up his 2012 claims, I strongly advise you check out his claims

Btw, do you know why the links feature does not work? Thanks

[edit on 10-3-2008 by xnibirux]

Originally posted by xnibirux
Second answer: Everyone thought Noah's Ark was fictional, but they actually found the Ark! Thus the probable cause of why the time period of the destruction of the Tower of Babel was translated accordingly from the Mayan Calendar. It is not quite so fictional just because it was in the bible like Noah's Ark. Again, no specific date, just a specific location on the Mayan Calendar, the 5th night.

Wrong.

Firstly you can see here the unbiased gentlemen who are making these claims of finding noahs Ark. Dont you find it odd that over a year has passed and yet there has been no major press release confirming that it is in fact noahs Ark. I wonder why?

The leader of the expedition runs the BASE Institute.

The Bible Archaeology, Search & Exploration (B.A.S.E.) Institute is dedicated to the quest for archaeological evidence to help validate to the world that the Bible is true, and that it represents an accurate, non-fictional account of God’s will to bring the people of this world back into relationship with Him.

Josh mcDowell Ministries

I have a vision of locking arms with church leaders &
parents around the globe to raise up a generation...
passionate in their relationship with God

So what do you think these two gentlemen have to gain by claiming to have found Noahs Ark, hmmmmm i wonder.

Second point is that the noahs Ark myth is not even a truly christian story but rather one plagiarised from earlier Sumerian, Babylonian and Akkadian texts.

epic of Atra-Hasis. See also the Epic of Gilgamesh as i don't have time to do all of your research for you at the moment.

The 18th century BCE Akkadian Atra-Hasis epic, named after its human hero, contains both a creation myth and a flood account, and is one of three surviving Babylonian flood stories.

Noah's Ark

The majority of modern Biblical scholars accept the thesis that the Biblical flood story is linked to a cycle of Assyro-Babylonian mythology with which it shares many features. The Mesopotamian flood-myth had a very long currency—the last known retelling dates from the 3rd century BC. A substantial number of the original Sumerian, Akkadian and Assyrian texts, written in cuneiform, have been recovered by archaeologists, but the task of recovering more tablets continues, as does the translation of extant tablets.
The earliest of these extant tablets, the epic of Atrahasis, can be dated by colophon (scribal identification) to the reign of Hammurabi's great-grandson, Ammi-Saduqa (1646–1626 BC). Written in Akkadian (the language of ancient Babylon),

So you cannot accurately estimate the time of the Bibles recollection concerning the tower of Babel because they didnt know, they copied the story that had already probably been copied by at least 2 other cultures and more than likely 3 or 4 cultures which would throw the bibles timeline out by ohh a few thousand years.

I like the energy you spend on your thought's, theory's and observations, just spend a bit more of that energy researching your subject.
I hope you can take that onboard as constructive criticism and not a personal attack.

mojo.

When everyone's done with their debunk of the thread by pressuring me thoroughly to prove me wrong on something that simply cannot be proven, a subject that isn't a 'can't see it, doesn't exist' type of proof, could you maybe take into consideration, the information concerning the fall of power within our very evolution as a probable outcome, seeing as the position of the world as it stands is a bit unbalanced?

[edit on 10-3-2008 by xnibirux]

Originally posted by xnibirux
When everyone's done with their debunk of the thread by pressuring me thoroughly to prove me wrong on something that simply cannot be proven, a subject that isn't a 'can't see it, doesn't exist' type of proof, could you maybe take into consideration, the information concerning the fall of power within our very evolution as a probable outcome, seeing as the position of the world as it stands is a bit unbalanced?

[edit on 10-3-2008 by xnibirux]

OK - no more debunking from me - I don't think there's much point anyway: whatever I say you respond with ever more wildly disingenuous "evidence" - Noah's Arc, indeed!

You posted the orginal thread though - you used evidence to back up your point, all we've done is disprove it. If your OP had been put in Skunk Works and read like this:

"Don't you think people who claim the world is about to end might have a point, given how fragile our grasp on stability has become in the world today? Perhaps those who misread Mayan inscriptions and say that doomsday will come in 2012 are coincidentally correct - I know that no respected Mayan historian believes in the end of the world theories, and indeed the work of people like Arguelles has been proven to be based on false premises, but there is many a true word spoken in jest, and I think the world is just about messed up enough for us to lose it all together in the next 4 years..."

....I would have had no problem with your post. I would however, STILL disagree - I don't concede that the world is in any worse a position than it has been for hundreds and thousands and years. The world, indeed, has been through far worse than we could ever hope to throw at it. I don't even think that humans are in any worse a position than they have been for many thousands of years. Sure, we have challenges, we always have - we have death, we always have - we have all the fundamental flaws of human nature to deal with - as we always have. We'll survive, though - just as we always have.

Thanks for the posts, though, Xinibrux.

The Really Ancient One.

Lone Weasel.

LW, We do actually have a lot more challenges than ever before, the increased energy everyone uses to power their homes isn't good, there are also 6 billion people on the earth, most of whom drive cars powered by fossil fuels, this wasn't the case "for thousands of years" Btw, I never claimed 2012 is the end, so why throw that quoted paragraph at me, and why use the statement, "we'll survive" to try and prove me wrong? Because of all these cars and homes our power grid will be out of wack by 2012, but it's not an end at all, just the end of the road for our magnetic field.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by xnibirux]

Originally posted by xnibirux
When everyone's done with their debunk of the thread by pressuring me thoroughly to prove me wrong on something that simply cannot be proven, a subject that isn't a 'can't see it, doesn't exist' type of proof, could you maybe take into consideration, the information concerning the fall of power within our very evolution as a probable outcome, seeing as the position of the world as it stands is a bit unbalanced?

[edit on 10-3-2008 by xnibirux]

Mate the only things that are being debunked are the statements you make which are either absurd or wrong.
You want me to believe something the bible say's as evidence of a time frame for the tower of babel!!
Its not me making erroneous statements.
But to keep you happy i'll gladly stay out of your thread from now on and you can have a fine old time with people that just want to agree with your poorly researched connections to imaginary or badly translated ancient texts.
Good luck.

Originally posted by xnibirux
LW, We do actually have a lot more challenges than ever before, the increased energy everyone uses to power their homes isn't good, there are also 6 billion people on the earth, most of whom drive cars powered by fossil fuels, this wasn't the case "for thousands of years" Btw, I never claimed 2012 is the end, so why throw that quoted paragraph at me, and why use the statement, "we'll survive" to try and prove me wrong? Because of all these cars and homes our power grid will be out of wack by 2012, but it's not an end at all, just the end of the road for our magnetic field.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by xnibirux]

Curiouser and curiouser! What's our magnetic field got to do with it?!

And feel free to read what I said - which was not that we suffered from an overuse of fossil fuels thousands of years ago. The point is mankind has always faced challenges - whether it be disease, cultural upheaval, resources running out, ice ages, whatever. This is another one, which I expect us to survive (not to "try and prove you wrong") based on the fact we've survived all the other ones.

My quoted text was merely an example of a thread I think sums up where the debate has got to regarding doomsdays and the end of the world. I didn't suggest you'd made a 2012 link. 2012 is simply another of the arbitrary dates - like those you transcribe so inconsistently from Mayan tradition - plucked out of thin air to give a frame of reference to people disturbed enough by the uncertainties of the modern world to begin to predict its destruction. I welcome those threads in their correct place, and posted in the appropriate manner.

Long story short - there will always be disasters, every year, somewhere in the world, something goes wrong. They do not occur as a result of some sort of cosmic cycle or ancient prophecy. They result from simple probabilities that stem from the fact that we do not live in a completely stable environment.

Thanks for your post.

LW

LW, the magnetic field has everything to do with it. The power grids of our earth are constituted by its magnetic field and the building up of all of these fossil fuels is simply enough to create hole after hole in our ozone layer allowing more and more of the sun's heat to alter the earth's magnetics. It is fairly easy to understand. I never mentioned any destruction involving our evolution, we will survive like we have many times before, but there is a transformation occuring.

Constructive research and studies done by scientists at the University of Vienna in Austria have found that the atomic structures of physical matter are indeed making a remarkable transformation. The molecular structures of physical matter are rolling inside-out into wave-like particles, something scientists are seeing for the first time! What's happening when the molecule makes the transformation from its original structure into a wave-like particle is it is changing from a tetrahedron to an octohedron to a cube, it then alters from a cube back to an octohedron simultaneously.

These transformations are the result of an increase in earth's frequency, looked at by the scientists at the University of Vienna through the work of Schumann resonance. The affect that an increase in frequency has on a molecule of physical matter has been studied at university thereafter, and what it does is alter the shape of the molecule. This is another interference it has with the magnetics of earth and why it is important. This is also why I believe fossil fuels aren't going to help and are building up negatively on all of this.

Look at it this way, there is a Zero Time Reference when we're born (time and space become one within your consciousness). The atomic transformations however, are working in the opposite fashion, space-time (physical matter is not bound in space but fixed in time) becomes time-space (a basic wormhole for physical matter through space time) and the Zero Time Reference is reversed. Now there are explanations about this deep within the quantum mechanics of Einstein's theory of relativity. This is what is leading to all these quantum non-locality principles that conclude the outcome of 2012 and I see it very important for people to look into the quantum mechanics of this now if not soon and not pass it off as 'just another year'

[edit on 11-3-2008 by xnibirux]

Originally posted by xnibirux
Constructive research and studies done by scientists at the University of Vienna in Austria have found that the atomic structures of physical matter are indeed making a remarkable transformation. The molecular structures of physical matter are rolling inside-out into wave-like particles, something scientists are seeing for the first time! What's happening when the molecule makes the transformation from its original structure into a wave-like particle is it is changing from a tetrahedron to an octohedron to a cube, it then alters from a cube back to an octohedron simultaneously.

This sounds fascinating. Are you able to point me in the direction of any online resources that document this transformation? Are these scientists at the University of Vienna (in Austria) in any way related to the Ancient One (in Laa-Laa Land)? Only joking, don't be offended - I would genuinely be interested in seeing some more detail on the effects you describe. If it could be anything other than YouTube or Wikipedia, that would be ace. Thanks.

These transformations are the result of an increase in earth's frequency, looked at by the scientists at the University of Vienna through the work of Schumann resonance. The affect that an increase in frequency has on a molecule of physical matter has been studied at university thereafter, and what it does is alter the shape of the molecule. This is another interference it has with the magnetics of earth and why it is important. This is also why I believe fossil fuels aren't going to help and are building up negatively on all of this.

I don't understand the link here - fossil fuels aren't going to help what? What do you mean by "building up negatively"?

Look at it this way, there is a Zero Time Reference when we're born (time and space become one within your consciousness). The atomic transformations however, are working in the opposite fashion, space-time (physical matter is not bound in space but fixed in time) becomes time-space (a basic wormhole for physical matter through space time) and the Zero Time Reference is reversed. Now there are explanations about this deep within the quantum mechanics of Einstein's theory of relativity. This is what is leading to all these quantum non-locality principles that conclude the outcome of 2012 and I see it very important for people to look into the quantum mechanics of this now if not soon and not pass it off as 'just another year'

This is all just theory and hypothesis, though, isn't it? Einstein never predicted any of the reversals you describe. You state it all as though it's fact. Which quantum non-locality principles conclude the outcome of 2012? Can we have specifics, rather than vague assertions?

In your last post you denied making a link to 2012. Now you are making a link to 2012. Have your views changed, is this just another inconsistency in your point of view - or has the earth's frequency caused your brain to change shape and change your opinion at the same time?

Thanks,

LW

I do a lot of research in Quantum Mechanics, that is how I figured all this out. David Wilcock has come to the same conclusions, but actually happened to point out that there are scientists at a university that have done experiments with this, that's the university in Austria. Don't believe the university exists? Universität Wien is austrian for University of Vienna, It is not where I came about this but the university is right here. I don't recall 'not' linking any of this to 2012, I just never bring Quantum Mechanics w/ 2012 strongly to someone right away. To explain the 'building up negatively' statement; what I mean is, fossil fuels bring nothing but a negative approach to the table, because these fossil fuels have been emitted frequently over a period of time, the risks are building up and they are getting higher and higher.

[edit on 12-3-2008 by xnibirux]

Originally posted by xnibirux
I do a lot of research in Quantum Mechanics, that is how I figured all this out. David Wilcock has come to the same conclusions, but actually happened to point out that there are scientists at a university that have done experiments with this, that's the university in Austria. Don't believe the university exists? Universität Wien is austrian for University of Vienna, It is not where I came about this but the university is right here. I don't recall 'not' linking any of this to 2012, I just never bring Quantum Mechanics w/ 2012 strongly to someone right away. To explain the 'building up negatively' statement; what I mean is, fossil fuels bring nothing but a negative approach to the table, because these fossil fuels have been emitted frequently over a period of time, the risks are building up and they are getting higher and higher.

[edit on 12-3-2008 by xnibirux]

*Sigh* - Xinibrux, I do believe in the existence of the University of Vienna. I've been there. I think you misunderstood what I was saying, but never mind. A link to the website of the University doesn’t help me much – I asked if you have any links to the papers and research done into these transforming particles, they sound fascinating. Presumably you have some online evidence to which you can direct me, that you’ve encountered during your research into quantum mechanics?

David Wilcock is an extremely efficient self-promoter isn’t he? He seems to crop up in a number of these threads. May I ask you, what basis do you have for believing anything he says? Isn't the problem here that the only authority his assertions have is that he himself states that they are true?

I attach here a list of his "credentials" from his own official website. I note that among them he numbers the fact that he is a strict vegetarian. He also claims to have predicted the 2000 Nasdaq crash - a prediction which would be impressive had not about a million other people done the same thing. He claims to have "predicted" the death of JFK Jr on 17th July 1999 - which would be a little more impressive had JFK Jr not died on 16th July 1999. Other things he's predicted include a famous nuclear strike on New York in 1998 which, er, never happened.

I also note that there is a substantial section of his site given to an online shop, where among other joys one can buy "The Journey" - which he describes as a "musical masterpiece". So he’s a talented composer too. Is there no end to this man's talents? More to the point, is there no end to his enthusiasm for discussing his own talents?

Isn't the truth here that David Wilcock is not an authority on anything? Isn't he simply a guy who wants to cash in on vulnerable people who want to believe anything that allows them to escape the crashing mundanity of their daily lives? Isn't the real conspiracy here not the events predicted in his (expensive) writings - but that someone can be permitted to go on making money at the expense of people who are too willing to believe?

Interestingly, I mentioned in an earlier post that one of the motivations for my campaigning against these sorts of threads was the fact that other websites had been ruined by them. Project Camelot, Wilcock's most recent public mouthpiece, is one of them. It’s my view that people like Wilcock are intent only on muddying the waters for their own profit. Come on, let’s get real and examine the real science that’s out there and fascinating. We don’t need self-interested “prophets” like Wilcock to dream us the way.

Thanks,

LW