Judge Approves "Big Brother" lawsuit against NBC's Predator , page 3

Originally posted by GUICE2
reply to post by OzWeatherman

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Another questino for you if you read the definition of entrapement.....do you see the word "encourage" in that definition? I do .....did the police encourage this behavior even a little bit? O YEA THEY DO!

Police didnt force these people onto the net into rooms know for children. Nobody pushed these people into thier cars with thier condoms and alcohol and forced them to drive to the Dateline house.

Yea...these guys are perverts but some of they are not criminals until a crime is committed. WE can track them, follow them, limit their mobility in society but we cant arrest them without the commission of a crime ESPECIALLY when tactics of FRAUD and COERCEMENT are used.

Track them? Follow them? Limit thier mobility? Even if a crime hasnt been commited. So your all for stripping someone of thier rights with no prosecution?

reply to post by ATruGod

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NO dude....i was talking about the repeat offenders.
They are already tracked and whatnot....and YES i do beleive big brother can be used for good like in this case. We can moniter chit chat, get ip addresses of the possible offenders and go get them when they step over the line.....or at least send a strong warning. THAT makes sense. Arresting with no crime does not....

Originally posted by ATruGod
Originally posted by GUICE2
reply to post by OzWeatherman

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Police didnt force these people onto the net into rooms know for children. Nobody pushed these people into thier cars with thier condoms and alcohol and forced them to drive to the Dateline house.

I know they dont which is why i had that afterthought about the PJ people....if they are law enforcement then this would be entrapement. Yet they arent and therin lies the loophole. Beleive me i understand the CONCEPT of using loopholes to catch criminals but lets make sure they are actually criminals and not emotionally unstable people that need help themselves (again, im talking about the non repeat offenders and those who never actually touched a child before)

Mod Edit: Fixed quote

[edit on 28-2-2008 by GAOTU789]

reply to post by Lotiki

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thanks dude....no more understand in this world. Me thinks thou protests too much? WTF is that supposed to mean? I take everything into consideration and do not accept authority simply because it is placed before my eyes. Dont give a crap if you ignore......ignore anyone with an adverse opinion, close your mind if you want to.

Originally posted by GUICE2

Originally posted by ATruGod

Originally posted by GUICE2
reply to post by OzWeatherman

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Police didnt force these people onto the net into rooms know for children. Nobody pushed these people into thier cars with thier condoms and alcohol and forced them to drive to the Dateline house.

I know they dont which is why i had that afterthought about the PJ people....if they are law enforcement then this would be entrapement. Yet they arent and therin lies the loophole. Beleive me i understand the CONCEPT of using loopholes to catch criminals but lets make sure they are actually criminals and not emotionally unstable people that need help themselves (again, im talking about the non repeat offenders and those who never actually touched a child before)

They actually showed up to what they thought was a minors house with alcohol and condoms (in most cases) THAT IS CRIMINAL!! Hell no we shouldn't wait until they actually succeed. They are predisposed if they show up with the intent and no one is holding a gun to thier head.

[edit on 27-2-2008 by ATruGod]

Originally posted by GUICE2
reply to post by ATruGod

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.Arresting with no crime does not....

But it is a crime to solicit someone you believe to be a minor for sex. The presenter of the TV show clearly stated that to avoid confusion with why they were being arrested. Look, would you rather these guys be under surveillance before or after they commit a crime?

reply to post by ATruGod

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They should be punished for disrupting society really....i know that is vague but what i mean is this:
They can do whatever they want in there minds, i dont care but these are the types of social actions that cause harm on their own because there really are other people out there who kidnap and kill children that we cant help at all and MUST be stopped at all costs. So the man who is confused about his sexuality and has these fantasies should be punished but not arrested, and he should be understood and helped to understand that this lifestyle causes so many ripples within society to be perpetuated any longer. Again....if he is a repeat offender then obviously predisposition to commit the act is actually there and arrest is warrented.

This is the same ongoing argument with the statuartory rape law....the girl told me she was 18, she wanted to have sex and now im in jail?
THAT law is BS.....and no, i have not been arrested for it so this isnt me being bitter

reply to post by OzWeatherman

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So now instead of the act becomming the crime and society trying to do all it can to prevent the atmosphere where that thought thrives we MANIPULATE the definition of the law and a CRIME to include the illegality of soliciting a person they BELEIVE to be a minor other than soliciting a MINOR DIRECTLY. TYou see the difference?
We can discuss how to deal with these people.....but lets get our definition of law straight here. Lazy non proactive social policing leads to reactive over enforcement. 50 shots in that man from the bronx is a good testimony to how overenforcement affects a society.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Originally posted by GUICE2
reply to post by ATruGod

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But it is a crime to solicit someone you believe to be a minor for sex. The presenter of the TV show clearly stated that to avoid confusion with why they were being arrested. Look, would you rather these guys be under surveillance before or after they commit a crime?

Welll....this is one of those gray areas in life because we are dealing with a concept that is native to our country. In other cultures woman at the age of 11 are married off by their parents because of certain ideals that we obviously do not agree with. Then you have the ongoing argument about the age of consent and whether or not we are able to arbitrarily place a restriction and judgement on whether or not another human being is able to reason and understand the implications of their actions. If you make them understand then hopefully they wouldnt make these mistakes right?

Yes but not fully because we all need guidance.....i guess the fundamental problem is that i beleive in the inherent goodness which lies dorment in the human condition because of our EFFED up societies. Most people beleive humans are born bad, hence the original sin idea and the straying away from rehabilitation and proactive social policing in law enforcement.

Mod Edit: Fixed quote

[edit on 28-2-2008 by GAOTU789]

Originally posted by GUICE2
reply to post by ATruGod

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They should be punished for disrupting society really....i know that is vague but what i mean is this:
They can do whatever they want in there minds, i dont care but these are the types of social actions that cause harm on their own because there really are other people out there who kidnap and kill children that we cant help at all and MUST be stopped at all costs. So the man who is confused about his sexuality and has these fantasies should be punished but not arrested, and he should be understood and helped to understand that this lifestyle causes so many ripples within society to be perpetuated any longer. Again....if he is a repeat offender then obviously predisposition to commit the act is actually there and arrest is warrented.

This is the same ongoing argument with the statuartory rape law....the girl told me she was 18, she wanted to have sex and now im in jail?
THAT law is BS.....and no, i have not been arrested for it so this isnt me being bitter

I really don't understand how you still think this is all in the mind when they actually show up with intent! They didn't just think about it or type what they thought, they got into a vehicle and had intent to meet the underage person. Thats the bottom line: They showed up with the intent of sexual intercourse with a minor. It wasnt a fantasy anymore.

reply to post by GUICE2

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We are not dealing w/ other cultures. They can move if they dont like the laws here. We are also talking about ADULTS....who KNOW the law. Most of these people arrested are working professionals. They know the law. NO excuse.

This is not societies fault. The fault lies with the perverts who want to have sex WITH CHILDREN. When they know its wrong. If they wanted help, they could get help. We can not force people to seek help. However, we can enforce people to abide by the laws of the country they choose to live in.

reply to post by ATruGod

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So the man who is confused about his sexuality and has these fantasies should be punished but not arrested, and he should be understood and helped to understand that this lifestyle causes so many ripples within society to be perpetuated any longer.

LOL. How do you punish a criminal w/out arresting them? What if they say "I dont want help". Then you let them go and allow them to continue their criminal behavior? LOL

These MEN know what they are doing. They get caught then play dumb. Thats what criminals do.

They know what they are doing.

reply to post by Lotiki

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Neither answer is good.
i think you both should be brought into counseling and asked why your love failed.
The stresses of money? the house? Did you abuse her? If you did then yea....i would cut your balls off myself because my stepfather beat my mother infront of my sister and i want to do the same to him.

I would do everything in my power to find out why your wife hates you so much that she would want you dead. If its for money purely then i would point out to you again how EFFED up our society is and how we are all left to deal with the sins of our fathers in such manners as we have been discussing here.


Does this clear it up for you at all?

Originally posted by GUICE2
reply to post by Lotiki

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Neither answer is good.
i think you both should be brought into counseling and asked why your love failed.
The stresses of money? the house? Did you abuse her? If you did then yea....i would cut your balls off myself because my stepfather beat my mother infront of my sister and i want to do the same to him.

What the hell kind of answer is that.....all you have done is avoided what he was asking....

Originally posted by GUICE2
reply to post by Lotiki

---

Neither answer is good.
i think you both should be brought into counseling and asked why your love failed.
The stresses of money? the house? Did you abuse her? If you did then yea....i would cut your balls off myself because my stepfather beat my mother infront of my sister and i want to do the same to him.

I would do everything in my power to find out why your wife hates you so much that she would want you dead. If its for money purely then i would point out to you again how EFFED up our society is and how we are all left to deal with the sins of our fathers in such manners as we have been discussing here.


Does this clear it up for you at all?

No, in fact you did not answer the question. You danced around it and avoided it all-together by talking about problems in my marriage.

ANSWER THE QUESTION

Do you think she should be released with no charges because he wasn't "really" a hit-man and she only "thought" I would be killed?



[edit on 27-2-2008 by Lotiki]

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