witches and Satan worshipers

Originally posted by enchantress62
Anyone out there doing this is not a witch.

Ah, but those bombing abortion clinics ARE following their book which says to love your enemies? Double-*cough*-standard.

Originally posted by enchantress62
I get your point though, there are radicals in every religion who distort the principles for their own purposes.

Would you say there are radical Wicaans who distort the principles for their own purposes?

Originally posted by enchantress62
There is a difference though, ie. a person calling themselves Christian who bombs the abortion clinic believes that he/she is doing God's work,

A Wiccan harming another believe their doing Goddess' work. Double-*cough*-standard.

Originally posted by enchantress62
that they are protected by baptism,

Not according to their book.

Originally posted by enchantress62
and that what they are doing is for the greater good, or more to the point to save all the little babies who can't help themselves. A person calling themselves Wiccan who cast's a harmful spell, does not really believe in the faith.

They cast a spell and have no faith that it will work? That's new, even among my Wiccan friends. Or is it that they don't believe magic comes from the goddess? Very conflicting.

Originally posted by enchantress62
They don't really think that their actions will come back on them, and they don't really believe that the spell will work, it's just a way for them to act out their negative feelings without actually attacking the person they are mad at. So when the spell does work, and they are paying the price, they cry out and say that magic is bad and will ruin your life. Real witches do believe and take this very seriously. We understand the dangers and think before casting spells.

Never heard "Do unto others as you would have them done unto you"? Ah, but Christians don't have a hell and therefore are fearless of consequences or doing anything displeasing to God. Gotcha. You're saying Real Christians don't take this very serously? And that real Christians do not understand dangers?

I'd recommend changing that paradigm, it seems very old and overused.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by kklover

I just don't believe that god is a gray haired man sitting on his miraculous throne upin the sky. I believe that god is the energy source that runs through everything. There is no devil or satan or whatever but there is good and bad and it can be found in everything also.

God is a Jews, his name is Jesus, all other races are human created by Him. That's the real religion that people in the world should embrace!!!! you all must bow to Jews!

Originally posted by saint4God

Thanks for making my day. Oh noes! We's prone to attack and gettin' destroyed! I suppose I must immediately disassociate myself from my Wiccan friends immediately!

Reading: 1, saint4God: 0

No. If you do attract something's attention, you have very few defenses, because the Abrahamic faiths simply don't supply that kind of knowledge.

In that case, either you know better or it would be wise to speak to what you know.

I am speaking what I know If you mean specifics, why?

If they're normal, well, people then they're physical. Not Metaphysical or supernatural.

They can be. They cna be immaterial, as well. They're perfectly natural, though.

So there's a hell, but most spirits aren't "Demons". That's interesting. Exactly how many inhabit hell then. Four, maybe five?

[edit on 28-2-2008 by saint4God]

Figures of speech: 1, saint4God: 0

Define "hell" and I can continue further here though.

Good Afternoon folks; lets remember to discuss the topic at hand and lets not attack each other. It's a fascinating subject.

Originally posted by gallopinghordes
Good Afternoon folks; lets remember to discuss the topic at hand and lets not attack each other. It's a fascinating subject.

Jesus was a Jews, wasn't he? or was he Indian? Did I attack Jews with Indian?

reply to post by saint4God


I think you misunderstand my point. What I'm trying to say is, although both the self porclaimed Christian radical and the self porclaimed Wiccan radical have distorted the principles of those religions, they have different motives for doing so.

The person calling themself Christian BELIEVES that what he/she is doing is blessed by God, that they are acting out of compassion for the underdog, so to speak. Jesus's message was to be good to each other and serve your fellow man. The person bombing the abortion clinic thinks that he/she is doing this, that by acting in this way he/she is serving the unborn babies, fighting for their lives against the cruel adults who are threatening them. He/she is not seeing their actions as hypocritical.

The person calling themself Wiccan acts out of his/her deep seeded DISBELIEF in the web. When you practice Wicca you do so with the understanding that for each action their is a reaction, and that reaction comes back at you three times as strong. If you believe this then you act knowing that to cause harm means you feel that pain three times stronger then the person you send the harm to. Even if the witch has the intent to harm themselves the reaction causes more pain then they bargained for, so anyone who BELIEVES this would not cast a harmful spell. It's the DISBELIEF that makes the difference.

I'm speaking from personal experience here. When I first started practicing Wicca I didn't really believe that magic was real. I read about it, understood it, saw it's potential, but I didn't really believe that it would work. Then I tried it and it did work, to the point that it almost scared me, then I got cocky, I saw the power in it, but again FAILED TO BELIEVE in the web, and at one point put a curse on a guy that pissed me off. He had a minor set back that lasted a few months. I'm still paying the price and it's been 2 years. Now I BELIEVE! lol

I agree with you that both these examples are of ppl acting out of selfishness and hypocracy, but again they have different motives for doing so. However I can't speak for the Muslem guy, I don't know anything about that religion. lol

reply to post by enchantress62


I hope you don't mind my popping into this thread of thought, Enchantress, but I would like to share some of my beliefs regarding all this.

Eh, since I didn't opt to "quote" you I am trying to reply from my memory (such as it is

It's interesting how much alike we are yet vastly different in the Object of our devotion. Christ is the Christian mediator to the God Head (Creator/Father...even Mother, if you wish) and we see Him/Her as a personal entity....yet beyond understanding with our limited perceptions.

Whereas, the Wiccans, Giaists and others (I'm deliberately not including Satanist because I believe them to be in opposition to Goodness and my belief in the Christian God)...have a more universal, impersonal relationship with the Creator. At least this is how I undestand it. Now---please correct me if I'm in error about how you believe, or feel that you worship. This is only how I can word what I feel.

You see, I never make use of spells, circles, object d'art ....nothing but prayer because I feel/believe that I'd be burdened with having to rely on any tools of the craft. And personally, I don't want them. Life is tough enough---so when I'm beat down to my knees I will send up a prayer and wait for deliverance (for relief) from that which is beyond my control.

Am I making any sense? I'd hate to waste anyone's time if none of this has any relevance to the posters.

Anyways, Enchantress, may I ask if you use any visualization of the Creator when you're practicing. Another way of putting my question...does God have a personna for you? Do you find His/Her presence tangible in your Life?

Hey....maybe curiosity killed the cat (in the past) LOL....but I'm being sincere.

Thanks

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by kklover
the nazi's were christian but i don't say all christians are jew killers

Were they? We have a clear definition according to the Bible as to what a Christian is and is not. What words from Christ justifies killing jews? (or killing anyone else) If I call myself an eggplant, am I an eggplant?

[edit on 28-2-2008 by saint4God]

well if we're gonna go in that direction then just because someone takes the name of witch doesn't make them a true witch and we souldn't have to suffer the reputation of those individuals just like you said.

reply to post by deenamarie53


Satanists - at least the "Serious" ones I've heard of - don't actually "worship they devil." No blood-drinking, no goat sacrifices, though, hey, probably an orgy or two if they can. Satan is seen as a promethean figure, who brought knowledge to mankind and seeks to liberate them from the chains of servitude to Yahweh, to awaken them to themselves.

If it feels good, do it
and
Take responsibility for what you do

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
figure, who brought knowledge to mankind and seeks to liberate them from the chains of servitude to Yahweh, to awaken them to themselves.

Take responsibility for what you do

That sounds JUST like the book of Enoch, where the fallen angels gave humans JUST enough rope to hang us all.
Satan PROMISED Eve that she would be just like God, IF she would do exactly what God said not to.
So sad we have this world now, bills, imminent domain, conspiracies, child molesters and killers!

reply to post by Clearskies


3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us,

I think hte Old Testament shows us pretty clearly that Yahweh is a confused, vindictive, murderous thug with ADD. So maybe the first people really did become like him.

Here's a question though. There were other humans besides Adam and Eve - as mentioned in Genesis 1. Why is the whole of humanity punished for their screwup?

On edit: Wait... did you just blame bills on the devil?

[edit on 28-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

We weren't perfect like God, because,not only had he ALREADY passed curses upon Man,Woman and snake, but, they immediately knew shame as they realized they were naked!
To me, God (I haven't extensively studied this),was saying that we KNEW as much as the heavenly host, not that we were omnipotent or PERFECT.

They were kicked out before they could become immortal, because in that condition of sin, we should NOT live forever!

God was NOT petty or vindictive! ALL of Cain and Seths' offspring KNEW the plan and what God required!
Instead, some of them kept thinking, it would be O.K. to worship Satan, no problem. Maybe worshiping the golden calf would bring untold blessings,
Then when it got too evil, (child sacrifice, virgin sacrifice,etc..)
God intervened! Whether by takeover and war, or the prophet Jonah and others!!!!

I'm not sure there WERE other created beings aside from Adam and Eve.


And YES! At my age, with a moderate family, bills are a bane, such as the mosquito, even worse!



[edit on 28-2-2008 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Clearskies

 

On edit: Wait... did you just blame bills on the devil?

[edit on 28-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

I wonder if the electric company would buy that one next time I'm late, "Sorry the devil made me do it!"

Originally posted by deenamarie53
reply to post by enchantress62

 

Anyways, Enchantress, may I ask if you use any visualization of the Creator when you're practicing. Another way of putting my question...does God have a personna for you? Do you find His/Her presence tangible in your Life?

Hey....maybe curiosity killed the cat (in the past) LOL....but I'm being sincere.

Thanks

So let me see if I understand you correctly. You are asking me if God is present when I practice magic? And, do I feel God's presence in my day to day life?

Well let me address the first question. First of all there is a difference in the Christian concept of God and the Wiccan concept of God. A huge difference. lol Christians believe in one male God. Wiccan's believe in many Gods the most powerful one, if you will, being the Goddess who is primarily female, however has a male side to her also. When I practice magic it's a very spiritual experience. It's more holy then anything I've experienced in any Christian church ever. So yes I would have to say that I feel the presence of the Goddess when I practice magic, but I do not see the face of Jesus in my mind like I used to when I was growing up.

As for the second question, let me say this, since choosing the Wiccan path I've been freed from the oppressive guilt I carried as a younger person. When I do something for my fellow man now it's unconditional, I give freely without expecting anything in return. Before when I was a Christian every good thing I did was to gain points with God. I wanted his approval, his validation, I wanted to be released from the guilt. I wanted him to recognize that I was being good and tell me I was an ok person, that I would go to heaven and all would be well. Now I don't feel that presence like I did before. I know the Goddess is there and I can call upon her anytime I need to, but I don't feel her hovering, ready to pounce the minute I'm less then perfect.

I hope this answers your questions.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Reading: 1, saint4God: 0

I'm glad you see this as a game. I do not.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
No. If you do attract something's attention, you have very few defenses, because the Abrahamic faiths simply don't supply that kind of knowledge.

Nice subtle-ignorance statement. Call a duck a duck, again, no time for games.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

In that case, either you know better or it would be wise to speak to what you know.

I am speaking what I know

Then you're running short on knowledge yourself so careful with the finger-pointing about what others don't know.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Figures of speech: 1, saint4God: 0

Glad life is a game for you and that you enjoy playing.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Define "hell" and I can continue further here though.

It's already defined, there's no need for me to do so.

Originally posted by enchantress62
I agree with you that both these examples are of ppl acting out of selfishness and hypocracy,

I appreciate this acknowledgement.

Originally posted by enchantress62
but again they have different motives for doing so.

Again, not so much. Motivations are the same, just the one they're hiding behind is different.

Originally posted by kklover
well if we're gonna go in that direction then just because someone takes the name of witch doesn't make them a true witch and we souldn't have to suffer the reputation of those individuals just like you said.

Very well. Just because someone takes the name of Christian doesn't make them a true Christian and we souldn't have to suffer the reputation of those individuals. Is this fair? If so, why the implication that Christians are Nazis...or the statement that Nazis who slaughtered people were Christians?



[edit on 29-2-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Satanists - at least the "Serious" ones I've heard of - don't actually "worship they devil."

Then they're not theistic Satanists...and there are plenty of those.

reply to post by enchantress62


OK, now "I" have a better handle on where you're coming from. The question I posed to you is the same one that I run past other friends. When I learn of their faith I like to share experiences.

BTW, is the baby with the helmet yours? Sweet, hahaha

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Satanists - at least the "Serious" ones I've heard of - don't actually "worship they devil."

Then they're not theistic Satanists...and there are plenty of those.

Good on the clarification, Saint.

Sum-body-else needs to get all those factoids in their head sorted out.