witches and Satan worshipers

Ok everyone i need you to get your facts straight here.

I'm sick and tired of everyone thinking that witches are evil and that they follow satan or what not.

Yes i do know that so called "witches" do take witchcraft to a dark place and yes that's wrong.

HEre's my thing i'm a witch and i know for a fact that in my religion we don't even believe in the devil or hell so how can you worship something that you don't believe in? Duh you can't!

Look all i'm saying is i'm not evil. I believe in god just like christians and what not. I just don't believe that god is a gray haired man sitting on his miraculous throne upin the sky. I believe that god is the energy source that runs through everything. There is no devil or satan or whatever but there is good and bad and it can be found in everything also.

so please quit with the generalizing that witches and satan worshipers are one in the same because it's not true.

Witches are "evil" because they are not slaves to the Church. Non-conformity is the enemy of control.

I am not even quite so sure about Satanists being true evil. I'd rather have a person do something nice for me even if they're only doing it to make themselves feel better, than get snubbed by some holy-roller when I could really use a hand.

EDIT to add: Satanism is largely misunderstood too.

[edit on 2/27/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
EDIT to add: Satanism is largely misunderstood too.

[edit on 2/27/0808 by jackinthebox]

I came to this thread with this in mind lol... upon reading the OP i will agree with your comment and expand for his benefit (i hope).

I am a Christian, i like to consider myself we researched in my religion and a conclusion i have come to. ATS is about denying ignorance, i do that with everything in my life. Researching why i have my beliefs is something i do often. If i was to be a Christian i have to look at the alternatives.

In this quest I researched Satanism, read a number of different sects and their books, including the Anton Lavey Satanist Bible cover to cover (a feat i have not even done in my own religion lol, but cut me some slack... it's alot longer lol).

Anyway, if you do some research into Satanism, you may find you are more like it than you think. The only real difference i see is the idea of God, more an energy for you and satanists are god.

Where i think your problem lies is that satanism is indeed misunderstood and you may be thinking people are labeling you with human sacrifices and drinking animal blood. You are not like this and neither is satanism (well... there is a form of it that isn't true and follows these... more for fun than religion i feel. But this is not the place to debate whether they are satanists).

The problem i see here is the misunderstanding of Satanism in general. A Christian people scared of understanding the truth and hence the only 'truth' they find is the portrayal in movies etc.

COME ON PEOPLE, DENY IGNORANCE........ plz?

[edit on 27/2/2008 by SilentShadow]

[edit on 27/2/2008 by SilentShadow]

Originally posted by kklover
Ok everyone i need you to get your facts straight here.

I'm sick and tired of everyone thinking that witches are evil and that they follow satan or what not.

Yes i do know that so called "witches" do take witchcraft to a dark place and yes that's wrong.

HEre's my thing i'm a witch and i know for a fact that in my religion we don't even believe in the devil or hell so how can you worship something that you don't believe in? Duh you can't!

Look all i'm saying is i'm not evil. I believe in god just like christians and what not. I just don't believe that god is a gray haired man sitting on his miraculous throne upin the sky. I believe that god is the energy source that runs through everything. There is no devil or satan or whatever but there is good and bad and it can be found in everything also.

so please quit with the generalizing that witches and satan worshipers are one in the same because it's not true.

Hi....I give you a star and a flag for the topic!

Myself, I certainly don't think you or anyone else practising "pagan" (please allow me the use of this word as it falls outside the confines of Judeo-Chrstianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc. religious pracrices) are evil.

Believing in God as an elderly gray-haired man is simplistic, I agree. But it helps a lot of people that can't come close to embracing their understanding of God (any god, for that matter) without having a "visual clue". I'd also like to add that worshipping an image is pretty darn fruitless, but that's another topic, lol.

But here's the rub. When you practice wiccan (is it wiccan? gaia?) you open yourself up to malevolent forces where they most certainly gain the upper hand.....and they most often do. Trust me here.

You're absolutely right about God being THE energy source that runs through everything...created and uncreated. But He is so much more. I firmly believe that God can be as personal as we allow Him to be.

Another thought here. If you deny the very real existence of cancer does that mean you'll be exempt from its ravaging affects on your well-being? Evil, like cancer is very real! Some believers call this Evil Lucifer, Apollyon, Abbadon, so on and so forth. Am I making any sense to you without being condemning? I hope so....I don't condemn you I simply worry for you..... that's all. Be safe.

Magic can be good or evil depending on how its used but there are two types of magic you should be wary of. 1 is channeling as your inviting possession that can and often does end badly for you and it also puts you in sync with the "demon realm" that makes you easily influenced by evil spirits and 2 is using certain types of magic circles as they do nothing more than offer you up body and soul to any evil spirit that wants you and basically strip you of your natural protection. all magic is basically altering things around you with your mind but ive used the terms spirits and demons because its much easier for most people to understand since human conciousness still has a long way to go in understanding what these things really are

All religions can be used for good and evil, depending on the person. A lot of people will make fun of a religion that is not their own because they don't understand it. I am a medium but not all people will believe in what I do or even worse think I'm nuts. I've tried to accept that and most of the time I can accept it but I must say that I feel more comfortable around people who believe it. It's such an important part of my life that if people don't believe me or think it's evil it feels like they are not liking me as a person. I know these are two different things but it still feels like that.

reply to post by ambushrocks


Yes using magic doesn't make you a bad person as all energy can be either good or bad depending on the user and the source but if your rituals start using the names of demons or demonic sigils then you may be a good person but your magic is coming from a bad source. if you use your own energy you can be sure its safe and only effected by you but once you start tapping into energy focuses such as demon gods your syncing yourself to their wavelength and your going to change as a person. i just hope you be careful as the slow slide into demonic service is so slow most dont even notice it and they will try to convince you that that are simply the embodiments of suppressed human nature to mislead you into giving up your chance at bigger and better things that they are VERY envious of. they dont like us to realize it but humans are superior to demons and have the potential to become like gods after enough incarnations and growth. i wouldn't take advice from beings that live on a LOWER level then us they are the "fallen" for a reason

reply to post by kklover


In a nutshell my friend ... in a nutshell.

Although I have to say that I personally have not come across many people who think I / witches in general are particularly bad ... certainly not at ATS.

I find that if you explain the reality of the craft in 'real' terms ... and not try to dramatize it, people (non-witches) are intelligent enough to understand and see that you are no different to those of other religions ... but simply approach your belief in the God-source, from a different path. I have held workshops on this very subject and those who attend go away with a much clearer view of the subject.

Those who practice 'Dark Magicks' are somewhat misguided IMHO, and are inadvertently storing future problems ... not only for themselves ... but more often than not ... the things they hold most dear (the rule of 3) etc. And I know this because when I first became a practicing 'solitary' almost 20yrs ago, I was desperate and full of ego (I thought I could handle it whatever 'IT' was), and did something foolish (that would be considered 'dark') and I was prepared to pay the consequences just to be out of the situation ... unfortunately it wasn't me who paid but someone close to me. I learned a hard but valuable lesson and have always advised against such practices ... no matter what ... the risk is far too high. What's more ... over my years of development and experience, I have discovered that positive magick is so very much stronger than the negative kind.

True witches are a gentle people who wish to help those who seek them out ... but it's also vital to be aware of your shadow-side (this is true of everyone whatever your chosen faith) otherwise how can we hope to achieve balance ???

Bright Blessings. Woody

While I think there is a difference between natural forces, (such as healing herbs, positive thinking, natural magnetism) and (sceances, spells, drug-induced visions)
The Scriptures are clear that we should not manipulate the spiritual realm (Apart from The Holy Spirit.)
You WILL be dealing with demons.
I heard testimony from one individual that what at first was a spiritual
'help', became her master.
When she asked for a 'spirit' to give her insight to the future, for her acquaintances, it took her Over and she had to be exorcised.

2Ch 33:1 ¶ Manasseh [was] twelve years old when he began to reign, and he reigned fifty and five years in Jerusalem:


2Ch 33:2 But did [that which was] evil in the sight of the LORD, like unto the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel.


2Ch 33:3 For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.


2Ch 33:4 Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.

2Ch 33:5 And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.

2Ch 33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

Originally posted by kklover
HEre's my thing i'm a witch and i know for a fact that in my religion we don't even believe in the devil or hell so how can you worship something that you don't believe in? Duh you can't!

This was the only question in your post but seems you'd provided your own answer to your question...so...while I appreciate that this forum allows us to state our beliefs, where is the discussion? It seems no room has been allocated for that. Those who have replied have also followed suit. No questions, no room for discussion, just statements. I believe I like coffee. Maybe I can open a thread about it and give a dissertation.

[edit on 27-2-2008 by saint4God]

Hi there Clearskies,

Would those quotes in your post be from the King James Bible ?

If so please be aware that said monarch manipulated/added to/and detracted from, many of the scriptures in his own amended version (a version still used in many churches today) ... in an effort to condone the barbaric 'witch-hunts' that were carried-out during his reign.

Example;

It was King James who famously alter the passage that had previously read ...

'Never suffer a murderer to live'

and re-wrote it as ...

'Never suffer a witch or a murderer to live' (in his version)

All the gospels tend to vary so much ... seeming to become progressivley dramatic and supernatural the later they were written.

If you've ever managed to read a copy of Simon's Testimony (Simon [Aramaic - Petros] ... [Greek - Petros = Rock], eventualy this became known as the Gospel of Peter) ... you can see that it comes across as a real firsthand account and it is very ordinary (unlike the gospels written some time after the death of Jesus), there was no mention of anything supernatural eg; angels / ressurected spirits etc.

If you've not come across it I highly recommend it (to anyone whatever their faith) ... not only an interesting document ... but a highly believable one concerning the life/death of the prophet Jesus.

However, it's also easy to see why this would have been edited from the final cut of the bible (so to speak) ... not enough razamataz during the times of conversion. Those in the business of converting needed something with a more exciting hook (it's quite ironic that they chose the supernatural as that hook).

But this is what I meant when I said everyone with any kind of spiritual inclination should be aware of ALL facets of their chosen faith. To be able to righteously say that is where they belong ... all elements should be researched ... otherwise we are only going through the motions.

(point of interest);

The word 'heathen' originally meant ... 'man of the heath' ... 'a country dweller'. Nothing satanic or demonic.

The word 'witchcraft' means 'craft of the wise' and refers to the old ways and a knowledge of plant's and herb's ... the village doctor/midwife/vetinarian of yesteryear. Another simple case of words being bastardized over time until they mean something completly different ... research ... research ... and then more research (but from a variety of sources so that you don't end-up ith a blinkered view)

The unfortunate thing is that due to the so-called New-Age, every weekend hippy and their dog ... and let us not forget the charlatan's ... are jumping on the bandwagon either because they think it's 'cool' to be a witch ... or because they think there is a lot of money to be made out of gullible consumers.

So to the OP ... you can see why some people are bound to believe that 'we' are all the same. The important thing to remember is that you know the truth of the craft ... and that you work from a pure heart. We don't need to convert people to our way of thinking ... we leave that to freewill ... so don't take anyones harsh words to heart ... a good man once said ... 'they know not what they do' I believe ... and he was so right!

Woody

None of the witches I know worship satan or are satanist. As a witch myself, satanism has nothing to do with my spiritual path in this lifetime. Funny how the two labels are freely intermixed by those who fear one or the other or both.

English Bible history

King Henry VIII

It was not that King Henry VIII had a change of conscience regarding publishing the Bible in English. His motives were more sinister… but the Lord sometimes uses the evil intentions of men to bring about His glory. King Henry VIII had in fact, requested that the Pope permit him to divorce his wife and marry his mistress. The Pope refused. King Henry responded by marrying his mistress anyway, (later having two of his many wives executed), and thumbing his nose at the Pope by renouncing Roman Catholicism, taking England out from under Rome’s religious control, and declaring himself as the reigning head of State to also be the new head of the Church. This new branch of the Christian Church, neither Roman Catholic nor truly Protestant, became known as the Anglican Church or the Church of England. King Henry acted essentially as its “Pope”. His first act was to further defy the wishes of Rome by funding the printing of the scriptures in English… the first legal English Bible… just for spite.

Is that the 'change' you were talking about?

Fourfold superiority of The King James translation

As of 1967, Kurt Aland, of Munster, Germany, counted a total of 5,255 Greek manuscripts still in existence. Though there are a few others since 1967, I use these figures which are still very close. Aland is the lead editor of the 26th edition of the Nestle/Aland Greek New Testament which is being used as the critical text of today. I am using Aland's 1967 figures.

As you can see from the table, there are 81 (now 88) papyrus fragments. There are 267 uncial manuscripts. These are large, capital letter documents. There are 2,764 cursives manuscripts. These are the flowing hand manuscripts. There are 2,143 lectionary manuscripts. These are portions of Scripture that were read on certain days of the church year. This totals at least 5,255 Greek manuscripts of the N.T. that have been preserved and are available for us today.

The table gives the approximate number and percent of each type of Greek manuscript that supports the Westcott-Hort (WH) Greek text, as well as the number and percent of each class that supports the Textus Receptus (TR) Greek text. These approximations are taken from the careful research of Dr. Jack Moorman in his book Forever Settled (see Bibliography). The WH figures are given first and those for the TR second. For the papyrus fragments the score is 13 to 75 (15% to 85%). For the uncial manuscripts the score is 9 to 258 (3% to 97%). For the cursive manuscripts the score is 23 to 2,741 (1% to 99%). For the lectionary manuscripts the score is 0 to 2,143 (0% to 100%). For the totals for all classes of manuscripts the score is 45 to 5,210. This is a ratio of less than 1% to more than 99%!

THE KING JAMES BIBLE'S GREEK TEXT HAS BEEN PRESERVED BY GOD. Which of the two kinds of Greek text has God preserved? How do you define preservation? The Scripture says:

"The Words of the Lord are pure Words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep Them, O Lord, Thou shalt preserve Them from this generation for ever" (Ps. 12:6,7).

reply to post by woodwytch


Now that's a very good read, Wood! You just got a star.

By the way, where is the OP? I haven't heard a peep from him/her.

edit to add that Clear got a star for his post, also!

[edit on 27-2-2008 by deenamarie53]

Maybe this is it.

Religioustolerance.org
"In the Christian Scriptures (New Testament): a criminal who murders people by secretly preparing and administering poisons. See Galatians 5:19-20. The Greek word here is "pharmakia," from which our English word "pharmacy" originated. Probably because of King James' obsessive fear of evil witches, the Greek word was translated as "witchcraft," in the KJV Bible. "Poisoner" or "murderer" would be less ambiguous terms."

Definition of heathen from the Hebrew;

1471 gowy go'-ee rarely (shortened) goy [go'-ee]; apparently from the same root as 1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.
3594 Kiyuwn kee-yoon' from 3559; properly, a statue, i.e. idol; but used (by euphemism) for some heathen deity (perhaps corresponding to Priapus or Baal-peor):--Chiun. 4464 mamzer mam-zare' from an unused root meaning to alienate; a mongrel, i.e. born of a Jewish father and a heathen mother:--bastard. 7728 showbeb sho-babe' from 7725; apostate, i.e. heathenish or (actually) heathen:--backsliding.

Definition of 'heathen' from greek;

94. adikos ad'-ee-kos from 1 (as a negative particle) and 1349; unjust; by extension wicked; by implication, treacherous; specially, heathen:--unjust, unrighteous.
571. apistos ap'-is-tos from 1 (as a negative particle) and 4103; (actively) disbelieving, i.e. without Christian faith (specially, a heathen); (passively) untrustworthy (person), or incredible (thing):--that believeth not, faithless, incredible thing, infidel, unbeliever(-ing). 1056. Galilaia gal-il-ah'-yah of Hebrew origin (1551); Galiloea (i.e. the heathen circle), a region of Palestine:--Galilee. 1482. ethnikos eth-nee-kos' from 1484; national ("ethnic"), i.e. (specially) a Gentile:--heathen (man). 1484. ethnos eth'-nos probably from 1486; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):--Gentile, heathen, nation, people. 1497. eidolon i'-do-lon from 1491; an image (i.e. for worship); by implication, a heathen god, or (plural) the worship of such:--idol.

[edit on 27-2-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by Clearskies


Hi again Clearskies,

Thanks for taking the time to provide those references I just found a link that you might find interesting and useful for future reference;

cf.blueletterbible.org...

It sites two of the quotes you suggested (Deu 18:10 & 2Ch 33:6) but the quote I was refering to was; (Exd 22:18)

'Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live'

Very cool, you can type in any bible quote you like (from the KJV) ... if exists it will find it !

Woody



[edit on 27-2-2008 by woodwytch]

[edit on 27-2-2008 by woodwytch]

Thank you!
I will bookmark that.

Originally posted by Clearskies
While I think there is a difference between natural forces, (such as healing herbs, positive thinking, natural magnetism) and (sceances, spells, drug-induced visions)
The Scriptures are clear that we should not manipulate the spiritual realm (Apart from The Holy Spirit.)
You WILL be dealing with demons.
I heard testimony from one individual that what at first was a spiritual
'help', became her master.
When she asked for a 'spirit' to give her insight to the future, for her acquaintances, it took her Over and she had to be exorcised.

The scriptures tells you to keep the heck away from spiritual interaction for a good reason - because the religion you follow offers you next to nothing by way of protecting yourself from them. You are to put your faith in God, and leave it at that. It's... insufficient for spiritual dealings. Basically, Jews, Christians, and Muslims are - in a literal sense - sheep lost in the wilderness because of this. All they have for defense is numbers and the hope that they'll find their shepherd eventually. And to their credit, the "defense in numbers" technique does have success. This may be why smaller congregations of these religions can become rather... erm... odd.

Most pagan faiths, by contrast, presume solitary or small group practice. The herd protection technique simply wouldn't work. Especially since many of these faiths actively seek out such entities. So, there's a long period of education and training for just how to deal with these beings.

Much like any other interaction with another creature, you have to maintain your safety through your own knowledge, ability, and authority. When you're out on the town, nobody's holding your hand, and you might get ripped off. When you're hiking in Alaska, nobody's holding your hand, and you might get eaten. When you're dealing with the spiritual world, nobody is holding your hand, and you stand equal chances of getting ripped off or eaten. There are Christians, Muslims, and Jews who understand this - many of them practice exorcisms via these methods.

I have personal experience with this subject. What I've found is that yes, there IS a real danger - and the cause of that danger is ignorance, not the faith or the practice. If you know what you're doing, it's just like talking with other people. However, it's not something you can just dive headlong into. There's an honest problem where some "converts" from Christianity or whatever, think they can do just that. That they can approach pagan faith and practice exactly like they did with Christianity, and it'll work out exactly the same. THIS is where the problems come up.

It's also a large reason why pagan religions often actively discourage conversion. Nobody's ever come to Christianity because it's trendy, but damned if it's not a veritable plague upon Buddhism and Paganism Thankfully this means few of these kids (And yeah, they're mostly kids and young adults) ever actually learn enough to get into trouble - they wear some jewelry, buy a few books from Barnes and Nobles, then get bored and go back to Christianity. However, there IS the risk there.

For the record, the majority of spirits aren't malevolent - aren't "Demons" - they're just normal, well, people. This means most are basically decent, but still pretty self-interested. Unless you stand up for yourself, yeah, they'll walk all over you, and just like people, they probably won't do anything for free, are pretty easy to offend, etc. Actively malefic (or for that matter, beatific) spirits are amazingly rare, and either one will make your life a living hell if you mess with one.

Originally posted by kklover
I'm sick and tired of everyone thinking that witches are evil and that they follow satan or what not.

Well, witches are evil. It says very clearly in the Bible, which determines these kinds of things, that witches should not be allowed to live. So there.

Personally, I don't care if you go prance around naked in the woods and worship trees. It's all a big ego stroke one way or the other. Witches get a big kick out of being "different" or "special." So what?

Do whatever you want. Nobody's bothering you anymore. And if a few people think witches are evil, as long as they aren't burning anybody at the stake anymore, then it's all good.

Otherwise, personally, I think witches are a lot of spoiled egotistical dopes who think they're better than other people because they have a different trip. They have an annoying, smarmy sense of superiority that's essentially as bad at the "persecutors." Equally lame.

Originally posted by kklover
Ok everyone i need you to get your facts straight here.

I'm sick and tired of everyone thinking that witches are evil and that they follow satan or what not.

Yes i do know that so called "witches" do take witchcraft to a dark place and yes that's wrong.

HEre's my thing i'm a witch and i know for a fact that in my religion we don't even believe in the devil or hell so how can you worship something that you don't believe in? Duh you can't!

Look all i'm saying is i'm not evil. I believe in god just like christians and what not. I just don't believe that god is a gray haired man sitting on his miraculous throne upin the sky. I believe that god is the energy source that runs through everything. There is no devil or satan or whatever but there is good and bad and it can be found in everything also.

so please quit with the generalizing that witches and satan worshipers are one in the same because it's not true.

I understand the frustration you're feeling. It's not so much that ppl tell you to your face that you're evil, it's that mainstream society has portrayed witches as evil or seductresses. It's everywhere you look, even in seemingly innocent comments like "What a Witch!" The underlying message being "What an evil person" It's not unlike the frustrations that minorities feel every day having to overcome the subtle prejudices that lable them, words like "Beaner" that although meant to be funny, cut deep and hurt. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and there will always be someone who want's to put a lable on you because of their own fears and insecurities. I think it's important to remember that negative comments made by ignorant ppl say's more about them then it does about you. Hang in there!