2012 without a doubt!!!

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posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 07:44 AM
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I think that perhaps it is time for a great deal of people to live their lives today. There is no promise that tomorrow will be here, yet alone 2012. Death is a reality we all have to face. Why continue focusing on what could possibly happen 4 years from now ? I say live today like there is no tomorrow and stop worrying so much about stuff that may or may not happen.




posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by Incarnated
 


I've really enjoyed most everything everyone in this thread has had to say, albeit those who come in just to say, "You're all a bunch of quacks" are definitely annoying--but they're allowed.

However, Incarnated, while I understand you're intention of creating a thread for community of individuals that wholeheartedly believe in 2012 cosmogenesis / ascension / consciousness evolution, etc., I think your rhetoric is incredibly off-putting to those who are just realizing an interest in this subject.

The over use of the word "know", while you are certainly entitled to say anything you like, is loaded with its contradiction such that you accuse everyone who does not agree or yet fully subscribe to the evolutionary nature of 2012 of being ignorant / blind / or lacking capable research skills.

This quickly turns into unneeded messiah behavior or savior's syndrome. "I am here, and I know (through intuitive means or spiritual calling) that 2012 represents great change, those of you who disbelieve are repugnant infidels, and you will burn in the chaos of the new birth. Acquiesce to my beliefs, or suffer the consequences as your mind disintegrates in the molten conception."

Now, this really does help anyone.

However, I am a huge proponent of the theories predicting and prophesizing change. For me, there are simply to many triangulating sources of information.

-Edgar Cayce's Predictions
-Mayan Cosmogenesis
-Hopi Prophecy
-McKenna's Novelty Theory (Time-Wave Zero)
-The Incarnation of Satan (According to the secret mystery schools)
-Nostradamus' Prophecy
-Malachy's Papal Visions

... and also, but not directly focused on 2012...

-The work of the entity Seth through the medium Jane Roberts
-Barbara Marciniak's communications with Pleidian entities
-The Starseed Transmissions
-The Eschatology of the Bible, Torah, and Kaballah
-Physical theories regarding global warming, possible pole shifts (new physics paradigms), an increasingly active sun
-The conjectures and hypotheses regarding Nibiru's return

There's just so much esoteric, spiritual, and religious doctrine converging on to itself. Given this, with the current global geopolitical tension - and it gets far too difficult, for me, to entertain the possibilities of nothing amazingly significant happening in the next four or so years.

What that will be, I do not claim, or think possible, to know.



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 08:35 AM
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It's happening? You're sure!?

Hogwash.



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by Donoso
 


Hey Donoso! Thanks for adding a very substantive component to our conversation!

You sure did do a really good job of waltzing in here and making your cynicism known! Thanks for sharing your beliefs--maybe, I dunno, you'd like to expound on them a bit.

Because it sure does seem to me that you came in here, disagreed with the main crux of the topic, and then thought, "Well, I like attention! I'll say something discouraging, and then I won't do anything to actually back with it some sort of reasoning. That'll show 'em!"

Yeah, you showed us.

Booo, poor play. Poor play.

Don't involve yourself in discussions if you're not going to add anything substantive to the conversation, otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time.



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 08:39 AM
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I'm just curious, don't want to rain on your parade in here or anything though. What happens when I dig this post up in 2013 after NOTHING happens? Will I get blasted, or will those that have the blind need to believe in such utter rubbish have a convenient excuse as to why nothing significant or out of the ordinary happened?

Now, before you jump, let me make a prediction about 2012 that will send you believers into a tizzy that year and every time one of them happens we will be subjected to multiple posts from a bunch of uninformed, ignorant blind believers that have a powerful need to believe in this kind of tripe in order to make them feel special and give their lives meaning. Leading up to the end of 2012 we will have war, famine, disease, government instability from multiple nations, earthquakes, many natural disasters...in short, nothing different than any other year. So what are you going to point out that year that you will claim is significant, and different than any other year of humanity?

I for one, look forward to 2013 and being able to dig up each and every thread of all the ignorant 2012 alarmists to remind them how silly and blind they really are. Their focus should be on many other things right now, they have energy and drive, they are just wasting it on NONSENSE.

[edit on 26-2-2008 by IgnoreTheFacts]



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts
 

ItF, care to explicate upon how you came to your vitriolic conclusions? Have you read all, any, one of the many triangulating sources of theory that have been brought up in this thread?

If so, and you still are inclined to believe that all of this discussion is just the whimsy of deluded minds, then I'm completely fine with that.

However, what purpose does it serve to come in here, put on your debunking shoes, and stomp all over everyone else thoughts, beliefs, and ideas surrounding 2012? Do you react the same way whenever anyone believes something with which you disagree?

Additionally, do you always make it a point to criticize the self-confidence and self-image of the individuals that you differ from on ideological and theoretical grounds? Does everyone that does not subscribe to your limited worldview suffer the consequences of your autocratic drive for self-exaltation?

Do you make a lot of friends arguing this way?

Listen, if that's how you feel, then that's just fine, but why don't you come here and actually add something substantive to the conversation instead of hurling insults? That really doesn't do anything for the exchange of ideas that's supposed to occur in these spaces.

I can completely understand that many people don't think 2012 represents anything, but the year Two Thousand and Twelve, and, from a completely scientific and rational viewpoint, I can even agree with them on that account. The difference, and I think this applies for many folks who have come to play with the ideas that I have, is that the scientific and rational approach to life is getting boring, and, looking at this history of humanity, it hasn't always been that way.

Some folks are changing paradigms, starting to see world through a more spiritual set of eyes, and some of us actively incorporating the insights of brilliant preceding civilizations into the ways we think about the world.

You might be interested to learn a little more about what we're talking about. And, hey, if at the end of the day, you still think its too far out there, then come back and tell us why, instead of screaming insults and being wholly unproductive.



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by McKennalite
 


However, I am a huge proponent of the theories predicting and prophesizing change. For me, there are simply to many triangulating sources of information.

-Edgar Cayce's Predictions
-Mayan Cosmogenesis
-Hopi Prophecy
-McKenna's Novelty Theory (Time-Wave Zero)
-The Incarnation of Satan (According to the secret mystery schools)
-Nostradamus' Prophecy
-Malachy's Papal Visions

... and also, but not directly focused on 2012...

-The work of the entity Seth through the medium Jane Roberts
-Barbara Marciniak's communications with Pleidian entities
-The Starseed Transmissions
-The Eschatology of the Bible, Torah, and Kaballah
-Physical theories regarding global warming, possible pole shifts (new physics paradigms), an increasingly active sun
-The conjectures and hypotheses regarding Nibiru's return



You give these references, but can you be more specific? To everyone else reading this thread, it would help if you could tell what was predicted and possibly a link to websites verifying these predictions. I would love to read more about the future.

In the early 90's there was a TV program about the predictions of Nostradamus and what would happen during the late 90's, but none of it came true. IMO, anyone can predict the future, especially the near future. It takes some knowledge of how people and groups react to changes, and also requires knowledge of current events and how they will affect people in the future. Such as the cycle of global warming. Every X number of years, we have a decade or two of warmer temperatures. If this was 1970, and I had this information, then it may have been possible for me to predict that the general public would blame the warming on pollutants. And thus, "there would be a great upheaval, the world spewing forth heat and flame, because of man's destruction and raping of mother nature." (I do believe in pollutants causing some of the global warming, and I'm glad this matter has been taken seriously)

In a way, I'm glad that people make predictions for the future. It allows us to take notice of current events and make preparations to prevent future events from happening.

PS - My mother said that there was an Indian curse that any President elected in a "ten year," such as 1980, or 2000, would be assasinated. Has anyone heard of this?



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 09:40 AM
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I think it's extremely bad form to discourage one's opposition to post on a thread. Furthermore, it makes one look insecure about their own ideas.



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by Incarnated
The POINT of my Original post was to set up the theme for the thread.

The theme for the thread was that this could be a thread about "KNOWING" the reality of the 2012 phenomenon to be a real timeline and thus setting up a place for people whom have already accepted or already know to compair notes, talk about what their personal perspectives are and anything along that line.

It wasn't introduced as a place to offer up arguments as to "is not" and "is too".


I set up threads with themes myself... and it seems I encounter the same problem you do. When I wish to focus on: "If we accept X what does that therefore mean about Y? Almost inevetitalby the thread gets jammed with people that cannot get past X. They argue that it will not happen, could not happen, they don't believe, their mom doesn't believe...

But how does that help us prepare for the possibility of Y?

It doesn't.

So.... to help you along, here's what I am doing to ascend:

1) Continually focusing on means to get "off grid". I grow food, I heat my water with the sun, I cook all meals on a makeshift woodstove outside, I sleep with the windows open 365/year. I am experimenting with carbon/methanol refrigeration and woodgas powered engines.

2) I improve my skill set in hands on, survival related fields. I am an accomplished carpenter, plumber, electrician, plasterer, roofer. I can fish, hunt, and grow vegetables, fruits and mushrooms effectively. I can split firewood like a madman, etc. etc. I do not work as a cashier, a stock broker, an accountant, in A/R or A/P... these positions are meaningless manifestations of the societal economic system and daily practice in these types of fields will improve your survival chances minimally.

3) I take regular meditative shamanistic journeys with others looking for answers. Read that as you like. I burn beeswax candles and white sage... I chant... I go hiking... sometimes when I am hiking there is a root across the path... I trip.

4) I read scripture, of varying languages, translations, and traditions for advice.

5) I find ways to be sure that after I have been paid for my services... that the customer got something for free; I create positive karma. I collect free things that were slated for the trash and give them away to people I know value them; I'm a dumpster diving trash picker.

6) A large proportion of my diet comes from dried grains and legumes. I store them in 1 gallon glass jars and 5 gallon corny kegs. I am able to purchase rice and beans (barley, oats, lentils, etc.) in 50 pound bags and I know when I have a few hundred pounds of grain around the house that my wife and I are good to go for several months regardless of "what if".

7) I camp completely off grid and bathe in the creek 30 days out of every year.

8) I have a negative outlook on where society (the 75%) is headed, but I have a very positive outlook on where I am headed and where those who follow me are headed. I pass judgement on those around me as to whether or not they are likely to fall into the extinction category or the ascend category. I avoid the extinction crew and follow the ascenders... I'm Jewish like that.

9) I acquire hand tools... everything could blow up and burn away... and when I get out of my bunker... the handle may be gone, but the hammer head will still be there.

10) I approach the world as if the whole thing is mine. I think this is the pivotal point. Those that ascend will reach this realization. To make it real to yourself... wait until it is season for the local fruit or nut trees in your area to be harvested.... then go for a long walk and find the trees that nobody cares for. Those are yours. And if you are nice to the people that are caring for the other trees... they are yours too.

I travel on foot a lot...

I am becoming,

Sri Oracle



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 09:47 AM
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From what I've read about Astrology, the age of Aquarius has been interpreted by a few different sources to begin at a few different times, including the years 2654, 2638, 2150, 2062, 2680, and 2595. Wikipedia
I sometimes wonder if floating clumps of rock, dirt, and gas can really effect anyones life or determine something so specific.

So, pinning the shift on one particular date or year seems a bit overzealous, although I haven't completely ruled it out. I definitely think something huge may happen in 2012. I have seen a lot of so-called prophecies, predictions, and literature suggesting something changing in 2012. The only thing I can think of is something physical that's so sudden, abrupt, and unexpected that life and society as we know it is flipped overwhelmingly upside down. This would catalyze a huge change in thought, awareness, and may cause us (those of us that survive) to become more selfless and loving, which I'm assuming is the whole underlying premise and point. (It could also send us into the barbaric dark ages) As far as the spiritual and mental shift, as mentioned earlier, I believe we've seen the start of it already, with the 60's as a prime example. It may be a gradual process. I haven't read the Return of Quetzecoatl but I've read Pinchbeck's other book, Breaking Open the Head, and I highly recommend it.

On an eerie sidenote, I sometimes feel as though the fabric of my reality is unwinding in strange and unusual ways, similar to what, I imagine, Philip K Dick was experiencing.

[edit on 26-2-2008 by comm12]



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 09:53 AM
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PS - My mother said that there was an Indian curse that any President elected in a "ten year," such as 1980, or 2000, would be assasinated. Has anyone heard of this?


I've read about Tecumseh's curse. In the 1840s, Shawnee Chief Tecuseh said that presidents would die in office. I don't know the specifics, but I believe there was some condition, like you say. I don't know if it was based on "ten year" or "twenty year" dates. Supposedly, the curse was "accurate", right up to Ronald Reagan!

To the OP: Here's a guy who claims the whole 2012 thing is just a grand deception by, dare I say.....saaataaaannnn. How do you know he isn't right?

"Demons in Alien's Clothing"

As we enter the 21st century and a new millennium, Satan has devised the delusion that mankind is entering into an important evolutionary phase - a New Age. The push for "global enlightenment"...

www.officialdisclosure.com...



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by chromatico
I think it's extremely bad form to discourage one's opposition to post on a thread. Furthermore, it makes one look insecure about their own ideas.


Go start your own thread about why 2012 is a hoax.

It is absolutely not bad form to disallow discussion of whether or not X will happen...

We want to know how to deal with "Y", IF and WHEN "X" does manifest "Y".

And that is a very valid niche of discussion that should not be littered with "I don't think it can happen" rhetoric.

Does the IPCC report on the mitigation of climate change have a subsection on whether or not the climate will change? No.

Well check it out... the title of this thread is "2012 without a doubt"... that means if you think 2012 is without a doubt... what are you doing to deal with it.... if you don't think it is without a doubt... go create your own thread to discuss why.

Sri Oracle



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by luxor311
reply to post by Incarnated
 


Hmm wasn't that supposed to happen in 560 AD , 1348, 1500 1820, 1928, 2000.......
2012.... its just a number and just another year



[edit on 25-2-2008 by luxor311]


Did'nt the OP say this is not a thread for non believers?



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 10:06 AM
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I find it interesting that NASA's space shuttle fleet retires in 2010, and it's replacement will not be ready till 2013...hmm...



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by WingNutEE
 


Hey WingNutEE,
I'll do my best to attempt to link to as much information as possible, and I'll try to summarize some of this stuff to the best of my ability.

-Edgar Cayce's Predictions: www.edgarcayce.org...
-Cayce was by all account a simple man, but with a great spiritual ability. Now, before you roll your eyes, do some fact checking. This guy was absurdly accurate with his trance-readings; he healed the sick, made atrological predictions, and even took audience with individuals such as Schopenhauer, Franklin D. Roosevelt and Nelson Rockefeller.

-Mayan Cosmogenesis: Link
-This is probably the most common theory regarding 2012. The above link is to a book by Daniel Pinchbeck that I have read, and from which I gleaned most of my understanding of this phenomenon. It is predicated on the ending of what appears to be an astrological epoch and the transition into a new age of human evolution.

-Hopi Prophecy: www.crystalinks.com...
Refer to Daniel Pinchbeck's "2012" for information on these prophecies as well. The Hopi also believed that a transition to a new world would be occurring around 2012, and I believe their ideas were based in their cultural shamanism.

-McKenna's Novelty Theory (Time-Wave Zero): The Books -- "Food of the Gods" and "True Hallucinations"
-Personally, McKenna is the most engaging personality on subjects of spirituality and the evolution of consciousness. He was a prolific philosopher, and after some experiences with psychotropic drugs developed the Novelty Theory. It essentially claims that time is of a fractal (as opposed to linear) nature, and that novelty is introduced into the fractal structure with increasing frequency until the point of an asymptotic ascension. According to his calculations this was due to happen around 2012.

-The Incarnation of Satan (According to the secret mystery schools): Link
-I would recommend the linked book if you're interested in this theory. It is really too dense and interconnected for me to effectively summarize here. However, it is predicated on the connections that all major world religions share, again astrologically interrelated, and discusses previous major evolutions of consciousnesses and shifts in the ages of human existence. It is very interesting. 2012 represents the shift into the Age of Aquarius and the incarnation of the entity Satan.

-Nostradamus' Prophecy
-Any web search will get you more information on those prophecies made my Nostradamus as they relates to eschatology.

-Malachy's Papal Visions: Link
-Malachy is very interesting. Again, this was another visionary experience, where Malachy was shown the remaining popes till the end of Roman Catholicism. He had this vision in the 12th century, and, if you compare the notes of his vision, to the lineage of popes - the similarities are startling. It also works out that Benedict represents the last in the line of popes.

More to come...


[edit on 26-2-2008 by McKennalite]

[edit on 26-2-2008 by McKennalite]

[edit on 26-2-2008 by McKennalite]

[edit on 26-2-2008 by McKennalite]



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by Incarnated...I do understand the world wide death toll will be upward of 75%.

...Just enjoy the ride, that's what I say.


Enjoy the ride? 75% of the population will die and we're supposed to "enjoy the ride"?

Also, if the end hasn't started in 2008 and hasd instead been going on over a long period of time... how do you know that 2012 will be the definitive "end"? What defines the "end"?



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 10:23 AM
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In all of the reading I've done on 2012, I have never seen any reference to the death of 75% of the population.

I'd like to know from where that figure came.

Obviously, physical calamity and catastrophe are part of some of these theories, but we cannot know what is going to happen.

As I understand these things, nothing can be predetermined entirely, while the universe and the human condition might be drawn to some fate-like teleological attractor at the "end of time," I don't think its possible that we can know the events that are to occur. Such is the nature of humanity, no one knows how this movie is going to end, but we all have some idea of what the plot twists could be.

This 75% dead thing - I don't get it.



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by WingNutEE
You give these references, but can you be more specific? To everyone else reading this thread, it would help if you could tell what was predicted and possibly a link to websites verifying these predictions. I would love to read more about the future.



To know anything you must first experience it. The list given was a set of searchable terms that could easily be plugged into your favourite search engine or brought to your local librarian for assistance.

Seek, ye shall find.

We are moving past the paradigm of handing out fish... you've been taught to catch your own... do so... or suffer the "75% fate".

You have asked for more specific information... Try asking more specific questions that show you have attempted to study the subject of your own accord.

Leading the horse to water,

Sri Oracle



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 10:40 AM
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I had to create an account solely for this purpose.

Recently, I had researched my way into a decline.
With all of this conspiracy, from the NWO to fission reactors in the moon, it was all too much. At 17 years of age, it became very difficult for me to take it all in, especially if the world was going to end in a matter of years. I later took this all with a grain of sand, and then just considered it all laughable.

However, this topic, 2012, has come back to me. I've noticed a large increase in consciousness within myself and several others. Two years ago I would have been playing Final Fantasy in a friend's basement until the wee hours of the morning, drunk and careless. Now we're having philosophs regularly and constantly learning more and more. My friend Justin, who owns the basement, used to struggle in learning anything. He was kinda slow, ya know. Now its like everyday he calls me up with something he either learned or discovered.

And this isn't the best of it.

Just two nights ago I was with my girlfriend at a friend's house. We were in a room together with my friend Charles. I was playing guitar and they were tearing pieces of paper from notebooks and making pictures that fit with the music. Oddly, they both knew exactly where each other wanted their pieces to go in these abstract shapes. They continued to laugh in wonder. It was like they were reading each other's minds.

And this still isn't the best of it.

Soon after, they were out of paper and I was coming to a finish with my mini-concert. After the last notes were played I set the guitar down and sat next to my gf. We were talking about the music and how insane it was that I could have made it all up there on the spot. I seriously had never played any of it before. Not to brag, but it was epic, dude. Anyways, I was telling her that I had my eyes closed most of the time, but when I opened them and say their art on the floor then the mood changed as well as the music. Then she tells me that they were changing the art to the music. We laughed for a minute, and then I realized that I hadn't actually said anything that whole time, but heard everything. We laughed at the same time. I was confused, and pretty shocked. I asked what she was laughing about and she mentioned everything that we had said, or hadn't said. I asked her if she had noticed that we hadn't said anything aloud just then and it finally came to her attention. He had a conversation without even speaking.

Then she tells me that often she'll start to feel deja vu coming along and acts everything out exactly as she sees it beforehand. I've done the same thing.

There was a time in computer class when I was watching videos of boxing matches and I called my friend Dakota over to watch a segment. Then immediately felt a familiarity. I knew exactly what would happen. I saw in my mind Dakota get up, walk across the room, and the teacher would yell at him for leaving his seat. Then a kid Jesse a few seats down would say something totally out of the blue about giraffes.
So Dakota gets up, walks over to me, I look at the teacher, she yells at him, and seeing how this was going, I said aloud, "Like the neck of an orange giraffe." Jesse looks at me and says, "Dude, I was just about to say that..."

This is seriously no lie. I'm not sure if has anything to do with 2012 or a rise in consciousness or maybe we're all just telepathic and don't know it yet. But I think it certainly is interesting.



posted on Feb, 26 2008 @ 10:46 AM
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Also, this is pretty strange.

If it happens as such, 12/21/12 at 6:00 am (as I've read somewhere)
And my birthday being 12/20/90 at 9:00 am
then I will be 21 years old
and on the 21st of the 12th month of the 2012 year
I will have been 21 for 21 hours
Maybe I'm looking too far into it.

Kinda cool though.





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