The Divine Singularity?

1 Kings 8:12 "Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness."

According to most physicists, our Universe came into being in an event known as the Big Bang. The idea is that space and time expanded from an Infinite Singularity.

This Singularity if truly Infinite should still exist somewhere in the cosmos.

It should also be comparable to a Singularity within a Black Hole. The bizarre thing about Singularities is that they are hidden from Spacetime by what is known as an Event Horizon. There is even a term for this called the Cosmic Censorship Hypothesis. In 1969 Roger Penrose proposed the Weak Cosmic Censorship Hypothesis, which says all Singularities in the Universe, except one are contained within Event Horizons. The one outside would be the one responsible for the Big Bang and would be described as a Naked Singularity.

A Naked Singularity is a special singularity, similar to one in a Rotating Black Hole, which has two event horizons. In the Naked Singularity the singularity's rapid spin would cause the two Event Horizons to merge. This would create a powerful gravitational lens, magnifying the light of background stars.

Astronomers have yet to find this Naked Singularity, but the
CHARA interferometer array in California may be able to detect the unique gravitational lensing of a Naked Singularity. The CHARA array in 2007 captured the first imagery of a star's surface other than our Sun.

This Infinite Singularity, Naked or not, would have some bizarre properties. One is the Black Hole Information paradox, which shows that a Singularity could annihilate Physical Information. This is a clear violation of physics, Information isn't supposed to be able to be destroyed. One theory proposes that the information is deposited into a Parallel Universe.

Another bizarre aspect is Gravitational Time Dilation, which essentially means the higher spacetime distortion the slower time travels.

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

In the past decade a realization was made in regards to Black Holes, Singularities and Information. I personally had an epiphany of the idea before I had a chance to read of it. The Black Hole Computer.

From Physics News 532, March 28, 2001:

Why use a black hole at all? Because of the presumed tremendous density of information and potential processing speed implicit in the extreme black hole environment. Seth Lloyd of MIT has previously addressed himself to calculating the conceivable limits on the computing power of such a black hole computer (Nature, 31 August 2000) and arrives at a maximum processing speed of about 10^51 operations/sec for a 1-kg black hole.

newton.ex.ac.uk...

Black holes: The ultimate quantum computers?
space.newscientist.com...

This quote from www.physicsforums.com... is very interesting.

according to Seth lloyd the observable universe represents 10^90 bits of information and the universe has performed 10^120 operations since the Big Bang. Given the computational nature of Black Holes- the average supermassive type black hole could easily make computations of this magnitude and beyond - the information density of a black hole is by definition at the Beckenstein Bound of 10^66 bits per sq cm- a super massive black hole has a radius of around 10^9 km- which makes the surface area around 10^19 sq km- with 10^66 bits per sq cm- the black hole stores 10^76 bits per sq km- that is.... 10^95 BITS total! [remember the universe is 10^90 bits]- and a supermassive black hole lasts for googolplexes of aeons- yet performs operations at Planck time- 10^43 flops per second [therefore processing 10^138 bits/sec] and will keep calculating at this rate for near eternity- as you can see- a supermassive Black hole CAN compute universes like ours quite comfortably indeed- in fact the entire history of our universe could be calculated within one-quintillionth [10^-18] of a second!

A supermassive black hole computing entire universes in quintillionths of seconds.

Now apply that concept to the Primordial Singularity.

Following ideas from Transhumanism and Technological Singularity concepts, a powerful information processing system could possibly develop an emergent consciousness.

What if this Singularity was Conscious?

What would you call It? Hmm.




[edit on 24/2/08 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

1 Kings 8:12 "Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness."

What if this Singularity was Conscious?

What would you call It? Hmm.
[edit on 24/2/08 by MikeboydUS]

I find the whole avoidance of scientists of this issue fascinating. They like to give lots of fancy numbers and equations and all sorts of made-up jargon like “naked singularities” to explain their myths. They say you can’t possibly understand it unless you understand quantum physics, advanced trigonometry and government economic projections.

In truth, one only needs first grade mathematics to prove or disprove their theory:

0 + 0 = 0 ( and +/- 0 ad infinitum still equals a big fat zero)

In order to get anything other than zero you have to add some quantity. Even if it’s only 1. Where do they get their “One” from? What do they call it? A “naked singularity” of course. Anything else would be unthinkable.

All I can say is WOW!!

I have no idea what in the heck you're talking about ! I think my mind melted a little while reading that!

A star for you. I don't usually go for the "theories of god" kind of stuff, but that was pretty profound and well-thought, and, yeah, almost right where I know hte truth is.

The universe is God.

I think what he is saying is the "naked singularity" would be God...and he would be within the entire universe...am I right? That is not at all out of line with the Bible. Scientists also liked to call the maker of the big bang "unknown conscieousness"...I THINK that's what I remember they call it, but I'm sleepy and I could be thinking with my fingers and not my brain.

That was really confusing but interesting. What does the ^ between the numbers mean?

reply to post by passenger

I agree, it seems weird to me that anyone would question the universe being a conscious creation.
Or at least it has to seem conscious from a human perspective as a particular of the whole which gains access to consciousness at certain points of evolution allowing itself to reflect and try to understand itself as a whole from that particular point.
I CANT wait to see where quantum physics ends up!

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
This Singularity if truly Infinite should still exist somewhere in the cosmos.

I hate to burst your bubble (well no not really ) but the singularity to which physicists refer is a mathematical entity, not something real. It is a point at which a given mathematical formula used to describe a physical process breaks down or is undefined, etc.

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 25-2-2008 by Lilitu]

reply to post by Lilitu


Mathematical and Gravitational Singularities are different entities though related.

A Gravitational Singularity is a point in spacetime in which gravitational forces cause matter to have infinite density.

A Mathematical singularity is a point where a mathematical object is not defined.

So you have a Point in Spacetime Vs. a Concept. If Singularities didn't exist Black Holes wouldnt exist. I wouldnt define it as not real, Theoretical yes. Since we physically cannot see Singularities beyond an Event Horizon, they remain a Theoretical Entity, but the Naked Singularity may not have an Event Horizon, thus it can may be able to be detected.

I highly, highly doubt the United States would be spending millions of dollars using a large array in California to look for something not real.

So go back and read what you said and think about it. Unless you believe astronomers and physicists like looking for imaginary points in spacetime.

If one could see the event horizons or even feel their effect could you not extrapolate the outcome?

Ech large body has a gravity well that can be felt or exponetially theorised using order of powers etc etc so potentially what you cannot see is visible

my 2 cents

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Lilitu

 

Mathematical and Gravitational Singularities are different entities though related.

Same thing. When physicists speak of gravitational singularities they are referring to their mathematical models. A well behaved TOE would eliminate all these singularities. As for naked singularities, they are entirely theoretical. The 'known' laws of nature allow for a lot of stuctures to exist which are nonetheless very highly improbable. I think you can take Occam's Razor and a little quantum foam and shave off your naked singularities. Careful you don't slice an ear off.

Originally posted by Lilitu


Same thing. When physicists speak of gravitational singularities they are referring to their mathematical models. A well behaved TOE would eliminate all these singularities. As for naked singularities, they are entirely theoretical. The 'known' laws of nature allow for a lot of stuctures to exist which are nonetheless very highly improbable. I think you can take Occam's Razor and a little quantum foam and shave off your naked singularities. Careful you don't slice an ear off.

You do realize a TOE, Theory of Everything is even more metaphysical, less theoretical and less probable than a singularity.

According to most physicists, our Universe came into being in an event known as the Big Bang. The idea is that space and time expanded from an Infinite Singularity.

I agree. This "Big Bang" concept has been around since ancient times.

As written:

Isaiah 42:5

This is what God the Lord says-- he who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and all that comes out of it, who gives breath to its people, and life to those who walk on it:

Jeremiah 10:12

But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.

Jeremiah 51:15

"He made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.

...

Though worded differently, big bang is simply understood as "stretching out the heavens".

It should also be comparable to a Singularity within a Black Hole. The bizarre thing about Singularities is that they are hidden from Spacetime by what is known as an Event Horizon.

The concept of black holes has actually been around since ancient times. Its not a modern concept.

As written:

Isaiah 13:10 - NIV

The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light.

Jeremiah 4 - NIV

28 Therefore the earth will mourn and the heavens above grow dark, because I have spoken and will not relent, I have decided and will not turn back."

...

It is very well understood that a blackhole is swallowing up the stars. Nothing can escape a black hole, not even light. That is why the stars will not give off light anymore and the heavens grow dark according to the verse above.

In a Black Hole, light traveling outwards towards an event horizon is pulled back by the very strong gravitational field, because of the warping of space-time inside the event horizon, regardless of the lack of a photon mass. This prevents light from ever escaping the Black Hole.

imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov...

...

Talking about singularities, if there is a big bang, there will also be a "big crunch".

In physical cosmology, the big crunch is one possible scenario for the ultimate fate of the universe, in which the metric expansion of space eventually reverses and the universe recollapses, ultimately ending as a black hole singularity.

en.wikipedia.org...

And,

Slowly at first, and then with increasing momentum, the Universe collapses under the relentless pull of gravity. Soon the galaxies of the Cosmos rush toward one another with an inward movement as violent as the outward movement of their expansion when the Universe exploded earlier. After a sufficient time, they come into contact; their gases mix; their atoms are heated by compression; and the Universe returns to the heat and chaos from which it emerged many billions of years ago (1978, p. 118).

www.apologeticspress.org...

...

This "big crunch" causes the universe to collapse under the pull of gravity. All elements will heat up and dissolve into the "singularity".

This concept of the big crunch, has also been around since ancient times.

As written:

Isaiah 34 - NIV

4 All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved

2 Peter 3 – RSV

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire,

11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!

...

According to the scriptures above, it describes what happens during a big crunch. The universe will be kindled with fire and the elements will dissolve with fervent heat. Everything going back into a singularity and the universe gone or according to the verse above, "passed away".

After this, there will be another big bang and another different universe will emerge. A brand new universe.

As written:

Isaiah 65:17

"Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

Isaiah 66:22

"As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the Lord, "so will your name and descendants endure.

...

So, the big bang, big crunch, blackholes, singularities, are all already understood by ancient man. Indeed, nothing is new under the sun.

Eccelesiastes 1:9

there is nothing new under the sun.

What if this Singularity was Conscious?

What would you call It? Hmm.

Base on the scientific facts as evidence and base on the ancient scriptures, there is no doubt at all that God has this infinite power for He controls and manipulate the power of a blackhole. For a day with God is a thousand years and a thousand years a day (time dilation). A total control of the fabric of space time.

Explanation:

...a day a thousand years

"Gravitational time dilation is the effect of time passing at different rates in regions of different gravitational potential; the higher the local distortion of spacetime due to gravity, the slower time passes."

en.wikipedia.org...

....a thousand years a day

www.youtube.com...

That means, God can increase the power of gravity so as to slow down time, so that a day will become a thousand years. God can also travel the speed of light so as to speed up time, so that a thousand years will become a day.

As written:

2 Peter 3:8 - RSV

But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Even General Relativity is an ancient concept as well.

The singularity is not all conscious, but it is the power of higher consciousness which is God, having no beginning and no end. God is a powerful energy and energy can neither be created (beginning) nor destroyed (end).



[edit on 2/25/2008 by amitheone]

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

You do realize a TOE, Theory of Everything is even more metaphysical, less theoretical and less probable than a singularity.

I'll take that as confirmation you don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about and leave you to genuflect to your singularities.

Originally posted by Lilitu


I'll take that as confirmation you don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about and leave you to genuflect to your singularities.

String theory, a theory whose fundamental building blocks are tiny one-dimensional filaments called strings, is the leading contender for a "theory of everything." Such a theory would unify all four fundamental forces of nature (the strong and weak nuclear forces, electromagnetism, and gravity). But finding ways to test string theory has been difficult.

www.astronomy.com...

Yet there are ways to test the presence of a Singularity. Heck we have even found Black Holes!

www.astronomy.com...

Known as 3C321, the system contains two galaxies in orbit around each other. Data from NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory show both galaxies contain super massive black holes at their centers, but the larger galaxy has a jet emanating from the vicinity of its black hole.

Michio Kaku on TOE

Exploring such science-fiction possibilities would require resources of science-fiction proportions.

There are millions of possible solutions for the superstring equations — and figuring out the right solution for our universe would be like picking a needle out of a galaxy-sized haystack. Even if the theory turns out to be right, probing the shrunken dimensions would require energies approaching the scale of the big bang — trillions of trillions of times more powerful than a hydrogen bomb.

However, outer space could open a window to the hidden dimensions and at least provide some confirmation of superstring theory. By observing the patterns of particles and antiparticles flying through space, researchers just might find indirect evidence to back up a “theory of everything.”

Hmm?





[edit on 26/2/08 by MikeboydUS]

reply to post by amitheone


I'll probably get spanked by the mods, but all I can say is "AMEN". Could never have said it that well, but you described it perfectly. Good job.

Hey I took more than one line.

reply to post by amitheone


Rut Row...double post...sorry, my computer stinks.

I'll probably get spanked by the mods, but all I can say is "AMEN". Could never have said it that well, but you described it perfectly. Good job.

Hey I took more than one line.

[edit on 2/26/2008 by idle_rocker]