A few hundred years ago the western world was in the dark ages. We were burning books and people for questioning the teachings of the church. It was a time when religion was in power and tyranny was the result.

During that same age Islam had the largest libraries in the world and kept the hope of light alive for all the world.

The western world eventually found the age of enlightenment and religion and politics were separated. (sort of)

Islam is now going thru it's own dark age. Religion is in control and the result is tyranny and the destruction of knowledge.

What I'm trying to say is during our dark age the Muslim community kept the light of knowledge alive for all the world. Now that they are going thru this tribulation I think it's the least we can do for them.

In fact, I think it's a debt we owe them.

wupy

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Well, the RADICLES were hurting my head. And the "Stupidy"... c'mon, that deserves a couple repeats. Internet rule of thumb, if you spell-check nothing else in your post, spell-check the part where you call someone a "stoped imgrorant moran idoit," you know?

Ok even I can agree to that. As much as it pains me since we haven't agreed on anything else. Normally I spell fine, some words still get me good , but rereading my post I now cannot believe I spelled it wrong twice.

As for this whole thread....is it true Islam is a religion that many are afraid to speak out against? YES...it is.

The thing is, I think we are trying to discuss this as westerners only. As to say how does this carry out here in America? Or maybe as far as North America, but NOT on a worldwide basis. So if you limit this thread to the US alone...Ash is right...it is a religion that is touchy when questioned. We have come to accept calling christians "bible thumpers", catholics "perverts", and others just crazy....but society is still not comfortable with labeling Islam like we do everything else.

Look above at Sky Floating's comment and a few other examples posted throughout the thread. Or the dozens of news stories showing dissenters of Radical Islam (or sometimes Islam in itself) are killed for their opinion. I feel like you're asking me to provide evidence the world is round.

I'm asking you to provide some references, and by that I mean proof, not anecdotal evidence. Give us some kind of news blurb or obituary where it states specifically that the person was killed for his criticism. You started this thread, the burden of proof lays with you.

Ashley,

Because you're acting like one of the Sitchen fanatics I so loathe. Or the Zeitgeist sorts you so adore. You've bulldogged onto this notion, and no matter what is presented to you, you will never change your mind. You're a True Believer. You don't need to provide backing for your claims - you believe, that's evidence enough, and anyone who disagrees is picking on you.

rcwj,

We have come to accept calling christians "bible thumpers", catholics "perverts", and others just crazy....but society is still not comfortable with labeling Islam like we do everything else.

Maybe it's because Muslims in America are better examples of the "American Dream" than most people in those other groups. American Muslims are good people, especially when you compare them to an equal number of someone else.

But you want to talk about a religion getting a "free pass?" Try Buddhism. For some reason that pedophile slave owner absolute theocratic monarch of Tibet gets the red damn carpet.

A good example of the behaviour of a certain class of muslim can be found by looking into the cases of Theo van Gogh (dead) and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (requiring protection).

However, I don't think there is a social taboo against criticising islam, never mind radical islam. Although some muslims would like this to be the case.

Maybe it's because Muslims in America are better examples of the "American Dream" than most people in those other groups. American Muslims are good people, especially when you compare them to an equal number of someone else.

The Muslim friends I've had were among the most hard-working people I knew.

Incidentally, I remember that around the time of 911, they told me how they'd been threatened and blamed for the terrorism just because they wore their head scarves. The mosque in my town was even bombed.

But you want to talk about a religion getting a "free pass?" Try Buddhism. For some reason that pedophile slave owner absolute theocratic monarch of Tibet gets the red damn carpet.

I guess they have a more favorable view in the public's eye; you don't have too many Buddhist missionaries knocking at your door, or, a Buddhist megatemble down the street!

My studies have led me to believe the Koran is the most violent 'religion' manual on the planet and unfortunately, Moslems tend to imitate their god
a few quotes from:



Truth-monger
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Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc, alt.politics.republicans, alt.politics.democrats, alt.military, alt.music.nin

Subject: Some violent quotes from Islam's book of murder, the Koran

Here's some of the violent quotes from the Koran, the words of Satan
(aka Allah):

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh
with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. -
9:73

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends
of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them.
God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from
obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the
unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find
them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for
them. - 9:5

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of
Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the
unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to
enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

very sad and deceptive
y

[edit on 24-2-2008 by Yacov]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Maybe it's because Muslims in America are better examples of the "American Dream" than most people in those other groups. American Muslims are good people, especially when you compare them to an equal number of someone else.

But you want to talk about a religion getting a "free pass?" Try Buddhism. For some reason that pedophile slave owner absolute theocratic monarch of Tibet gets the red damn carpet.

Thats a tough sell, there are MANY great families and people from ALL over who have come here the right way to do the right things...the Muslim families I know and have delt with as a Law Enforcement officer were very nice folks. No issues. No need to feel threatened by them and they feel the same about me. And that goes for all sorts of people I meet from other cultures.

As for Buddhism, whole new thread...

People, people. The "evidence" is everywhere. While working on the above comment several more people asked for 'proof.' Come on. This was so obvious I didn't know it needed "back up" but there you go. Those aren't even very good examples and were hastily put together but there you have it.

Now can we get back on topic?

[edit on 2/24/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by AshleyD
The above took me five minutes to find. Let me know if you would satellite images showing the world is round.

Thing is though, ashley, all it shows is that some muslims are a bit extreme in their defence of their faith. Not that there is a social taboo. These people would really really like there to be one, but there isn't.

So, they take this stuff into their own hands in an attempt to spread fear about criticising islam. But it doesn't work, in fact, it's counterproductive. Watch:

Islam sucks, in fact, it is one of the suckiest religions around at the moment. Indeed, in melatonin-world, it was the first religion that the anti-memetic vaccine was used on. After this great success, the christianity anti-meme is now under development...

heh

[edit on 24-2-2008 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin
Thing is though, ashley, all it shows is that some muslims are a bit extreme in their defence of their faith. Not that there is a social taboo. These people would really really like there to be one, but there isn't.

But you see, that is what I'm saying. Most Muslims express displeasure when we talk about images of Mohammad being displayed but they don't say they are going to go an kill anyone. My focus is mainly on the radicals. I admit, it is unfair to the moderates who get lumped in.

Originally posted by AshleyD
But you see, that is what I'm saying. Most Muslims express displeasure when we talk about images of Mohammad being displayed but they don't say they are going to go an kill anyone. My focus is mainly on the radicals. I admit, it is unfair to the moderates who get lumped in.

What you should focus on is why religions and faith full stop have some sort of in-built taboo against calling them out on their....errrm...'tripe'. That they inherently deserve respect, as if beliefs deserve any such thing.

Suppose that's a whole different thread though...

[edit on 24-2-2008 by melatonin]

Again for some other posters: We're not talking about the existence of violence. Anyone with two eyeballs can look around and know we have radicals in the world from all walks of life. It is not about the violence or atrocities. It is about whether or not there is a current conspiracy, social backlash, taboo, or bias about speaking out against Islam.

[edit on 2/24/2008 by AshleyD]

I am moving this, because I have little time to type, and then end up on the bottom of a thread. Sorry.


[edit on 24-2-2008 by jasonjnelson]

[edit on 24-2-2008 by jasonjnelson]