The Ultimate Conspiracy that can be Proven

I recently had an encounter with a "Super Mod" in a topic that really brought to my attention the duality of racism and how its being used as a tool to cover up the criminal act's perpetrated by the very same demographic that claim ownership to "victim mentality".

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

These quotes are the proof that the Palestinians are being brutalized and oppressed by the accusers that claim to have the "Patent" on victimization through race and a stranglehold on the concept of......anything you say against us will be used as hate speech and accordingly punished through courts of law.!

The usual proponents of this very failure in truth recognition will no doubt flood in here and call me a Rascist, Anti- Semite dog...but the truth floats on its own merit my freinds.

I don't mean to sink your battleship, but doesn't this depend strongly on what kind of class of lawyer that the two antagonists could procure?

Surely there are divisions within the justice community on which cases the individual works with best?

It may simply be the case that the palestinians don't really have access to decent representation within the legal system, in which case they're probably going to need help from outside.

I agree on the point however that the state controls the law - as after all it it does make the law to suit it's own purposes.

p.s; the people you highlight are merely afraid of the truth, or are indeed members of those prosecuted who feel that you're highlighting a critical error in their social and political campaigning.

Still, i find myself asking what it is i would do in a similar situation if i didn't have the resources required to wage a propoganda war, and sadly i must admit that all i would be able to do is try and draw international attention to the situation through international media conglomerates.

Of course, this is passive manipulation, which in no way entails the level of control that aggressive manipulation would give (i.e; say this about this, or we'll destroy your company on the grounds of treason).

I guess that what you are trying to do is sympathise with them which is ok and I understand that as they are very few living right in the midst of a Islamic Religion Stronghold that see's their very existance as a contradiction to the power in the region.

The things I can agree with are many from the perspective of the Semites and can be proven as fact but this is not the issue, how can someone who claims victimhood with a straight face do the very same things to a minority ????????????????????

Did it occur to you that perhaps Hamas has been infiltrated by isreali spies and is actually working in the interests of Isreal by firing rockets at it?

The same tactic the police use to turn protests nasty, in otherwords.

any crimes you believe Israel has committed I assure you that Palestenians have commited as well. Israel hasn't done anything countless other countries have done, and not been questioned for, under situations of duress and attack.

But no, I don't think you're a racist. You're talking about a country, not a race. People who pull out the racist card, on either side of the fence, usually do so because they don't have an adequate, reasoned response or they're just tired of having to argue this same thing over and over and over and over and over...

[edit on 11-3-2008 by avingard]

reply to post by avingard


Thank you for you comments, I was starting to think I had been mass-ignored with some of the threads I have started recenty getting zero replies.

Your argument that Israel is only doing what Palestine has done to it is what I would call "Perpetual Revenge" and is not alot different to what tribes in Papua New Guinea are doing everyday for someone stealing a pig from another tribe. Fencing the Palestinians in with huge concrete tilt slab walls is akin to imprisonment...should they lock up all of Israel as revenge ?

reply to post by avingard


When was the last time the Palestinians flew helicopter gunships through Isreal?

But thats neither here nor there.

Tit for tat warfare often ends in both sides having heavy civilian casualties. In this instance, as in many others, you have one nation state with a guerilla force, and the other with a strong modernized and mechanized army. Which will result in the Palestinians having higher casualties.

Anyway you look at it, the Palestinians loose. Either they give up their fight to land taken from them, or they continue to fight against a modern army and die in record numbers.

Isreal on the other hand, seems to gain. One the one hand, if the Palestinains give up, they get the land with no hassles. On the other, if they continue to fight, Isreal still recieves giant AID packages from the US.

when was the last time an Israeli citizen blew himself up in Palestine?

Guerilla warfare is the organized use of small groups to perpetrate quick ambush and raid tactics. Suicide bombings are not guerilla warfare, neither is blindly launching rockets into civilian populations.

Peace talks are impossible as long as suck atrocious tactics are used, supported, and glorified. There have been numerous instances where the idea of establishing a Palestinian state has come up, I believe the US was even behind the idea the last time it popped up, but there's always a bombing or some other event before talks can start.

Israel is a nation that, legally, shouldn't exist. I acknowledge that and see how this ticks people off. Isreal exists though, it's there. It's a mute point now to scream 'death to Israel' or for Palestine to want all of the country back. Can you imagine what would happen if the UK asked the US for the original 13 colonies back?

People need to stop fighting over the past, and start fighting over the future, preferably with talk rather than military means. I think the Israelis are much more likely to do this than the Palestinians.

anyways thanks for the response to my post.

mazzroth: no problem, valid discussion about anything involving the middle east or israel is a rarity.

peace, etc.

Originally posted by avingard
when was the last time an Israeli citizen blew himself up in Palestine?

I agree completely with your line of thinking here. The actions of the Palestinain terrorists (i think the term can be used here without argument) are atrocious. But again this is the face of the current war: A highly modernized, well trained, well equiped, and well financed army is launching blanket attacks against a disorganized and heavily oppressed population.

The response to those attacks and the overall offensive is rocketfire, suicide bombs, propaganda, and utter hate for fellow humans born on the other side of the wall.

So how do you fight such an army, an army that has the full support of the biggest dog on the block?

I dont mean to reduce the role the palestinians play in the issue, because frankly, tit for tat warfare does nothing to solve the problem.

Guerilla warfare is the organized use of small groups to perpetrate quick ambush and raid tactics. Suicide bombings are not guerilla warfare, neither is blindly launching rockets into civilian populations.

You got me there, the label guerilla does not seem to apply to this instance of warfare.

Peace talks are impossible as long as suck atrocious tactics are used, supported, and glorified.

Of course, this must apply to both sides of the equation. So long as children and families are struck with shells, sniper rounds, and missiles in Palestine, rockets and bombs will go off in Isreal.

There have been numerous instances where the idea of establishing a Palestinian state has come up,

Your right, and I believe both sides have been responsible for breaking off talks at one time or another.

I believe the US was even behind the idea the last time it popped up, but there's always a bombing or some other event before talks can start.

I do not trust US diplomatic measures. Historically speaking, US diplomacy represents a total surrender to US demands.

Israel is a nation that, legally, shouldn't exist. I acknowledge that and see how this ticks people off. Isreal exists though, it's there. It's a mute point now to scream 'death to Israel' or for Palestine to want all of the country back. Can you imagine what would happen if the UK asked the US for the original 13 colonies back?

People need to stop fighting over the past, and start fighting over the future, preferably with talk rather than military means. I think the Israelis are much more likely to do this than the Palestinians.

Just wondering, but I bolded an interesting statement and am curious as to why you believe this?

I think its going to take forward thinking minds on both sides of the field to stop the violence. As well as, a unified Palestinian front. This constant tribalism in Palestine only adds to the rough waters.

Anyways thanks for the response to my post.

Thanks for remaining level headed and making valid critism of my previous post.

After the war, Palestinian land was taken from Palestinians and given to Zionists to create Israel. Hardly surprising then that the Palestinians got annoyed and attacked the Zionist invaders as they would have seen them.

Jews have no legal right to the land. This is not opinion; It is historical fact. In the 1800's Zionists spread the idea that Jews should migrate on mass to the holy land. This gradually happened until something like 20-30% of the pre-WW2 population was Jewish. Prior to that, there was no significant population of Jews in the area in modern times.

Put yourself in the Palestinians' shoes. How would you feel?

reply to post by rizla


It's a bit more modern than that. The Palestinians aren't just ticked that their land is now shared with Israel, but that Israel is trampling all over their rights - the checkpoints, travel documents, IDF searches, more checkpoints (waiting in the sun for hours just to be told the checkpoint is closed, even though you have your documents). It's a level of life we can't fully understand in the west.

People want:

1. Water
2. Food
3. Security
4. Freedom

In that order, no substitutes. Palestinians getting their land back is step 4, though many Palestinians are still trying to get to step 3.

I find it incredibly hypocritical that the Israeli government can act in such tremendously similar ways to the powers that tried to erradicate the Jews 60+ years ago, in the very name of not letting it happen again. It's so messed up.

Another stark problem the area has is indoctrination of hatred. Both sides are guilty of it, and until that stops, there really is no hope. The Palestinians who hate Israelis and the Israelis who hate Palestinians will not stand for peace. They might mean well, but their viewpoints have been corrupted by the pressures (both real and perceived) of their relative positions.

It's all messed up.

Originally posted by avingard
when was the last time an Israeli citizen blew himself up in Palestine?

They don't have to because they have weapons that allow them to sit back, push a button and cause mass death without getting blood on their hands.
Im not condoning suicide bombings in any way, shape or form but the simple futility of having nothing else to do but strap explosives to yourself and walk into a check point screams desperation to me.

giwersworld.org...

Read that entire article.