The "Anonymous" Scientology Protest is an NSA/FBI Fishing Expedition

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posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by Tsakara
 

Okay... well I see. O_O.

www.forumammo.com...




posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:19 PM
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I can see the point you're trying to make, and I guess they could be accurate concerns, but your 'statement 5' has all sorts of problems with it.

Firstly, that you call Anonymous 'hacker children'. That is ridiculous, I don't think you are very familiar with them.

Firstly, you assume only children can be involved in pranking. They're not, adults can have fun like that too. Secondly, you assume children and/or pranksters would not be interested in socially complex issues. Essentially, you think those who take pleasure in the misfortune of others who like bathroom humour, can't be interested in victims of cults or the good of society overall and the defeat of evil. This is really just generalization based upon biases.

Most of Anonymous' actions have been anonymous, and involve DDOS attacks on Scientology websites, prank phone calls, etc. The protests are often done wearing masks, or in groups without providing names, so it is still somewhat anonymous. I do think that those having gatherings are perhaps slightly deviating from the idea of anonymous as they don't seem very vigilant about wearing masks, and it seems that prior existing anti-scientology groups are taking advantage of this by attending these things, I saw a woman in one video who was obviously like that, wasn't using /b/ humour or anything.

You also don't need to be a 'hacker' to do any of this stuff. Fact is, some people familiar with technology provide links to guides on how to do stuff like DDOS, which is how you learn to do it. Do you get your info from Fox News? HAckers on steroids!

I guess in theory you could have government members familiar with Anonymous, and who might propose an operation to inject memes and hope that public favour turns this way. This would require a lot of familiarity, and the thing is, you can't really force Anonymous to do something they wouldn't already do. Whether it was a random idea or one created by the government, it doesn't matter.

The public has been aware of Scientology and related things for a long time. South Park played a big part in this. There are lots of scientology websites, and lots of videos on places like YouTube. In fact, YouTube is what initiated this protest. It was linked to a key event where Scientology 'bit' by suing Google to take a private video down, one which most people had already seen to begin with.

It's not as if the protests began out of nowhere, there was an event that the public reacted to. I guess the government might have taken efforts to enhance the reaction, but who cares? They didn't need to, it was going to happen anyway.

If you want to create conspiracy theories regarding the government, I would look further back to what was influencing the public's attitudes to begin with, such as South Park, or to go even further back, who was releasing information, creating anti-scientology web sites that spread and discussed information, and who was controlling media centres which centred around discussions of celebrities who were members of scientology being such.

To look even deeper, anti-scientology manipulation may not even be anti-scientology. Persecuted groups often gain public sympathy. It is possible that scientology publicized celebrities who were members, and then initiated attacks on them through seeding the media with rumours, perhaps even inflated rumours regarding the nature of their organization, so it would look like enemies of the organization were concocting stories to make them look bad, fearing something legitimate. This does seem to be the response you hear from Scientology.

For example, if it turned out that documents regarding Xenu weren't even real and he wasn't even a part of the religion, the critics who spread those ideas would be looked upon badly, and it would be very difficult to be a Scientology critic in the future due to critics of it being looked upon badly. Basically, it might be the presentation of a straw man opponent who will be defeated.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by Maverickhunter
reply to post by Tsakara
 

You know absolutely nothing about anonymous... They are doing this on their own. Separate from the government.

Finally something you say actually contains truth!


Originally posted by Maverickhunter
Like I said, gameFAQ members like myself pretty much know what's going on. I would wager that most people that know what's going on with sites like 4chan that are on gameFAQS would know what they are talking about. If you aren't on gameFAQS or any of those sites that know what anonymous is you probably are making the worst informed opinions that you could possibly make. Please, a lot of you don't know how silly you're sounding.


Seriously? Wow, gameFAQs is totally awesome!!!
How old are you, like 7? That's the most retarded statement I've EVER seen.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Elija Black
 

It's less retarded than saying that what 4chan and anonymous is doing is something that is being done by the government. Do you know anything about 4chan?



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:24 PM
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Hello mister.old.school

I mean no disrespect, but what you suggest is not only false, it can not possibly be true. It can't be true not because I said so, not because I can't concieve such a thing happening, but because that is simply not how Anonymous works.

I must say, you have looked at a lot of evidence which may lead you to believe so, but the flaw in your theory is that you do not know who Anonymous is, or what Anonymous does, or how Anonymous operates, etc.

And yes, I am part of Anonymous, and I can guarantee that Anonymous can never be controlled, swayed, influenced, lead, etc.

You need to be a long-time member of Anonymous to understand all this fully, but basically we are an anarchist organisation, spanning countless websites, image-boards, forums, IRC channels, etc.
And there is much much more to it than that.


So quite simply, once again - I mean no disrespect, but what you suggest is quite simply impossible.


Thanks.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by leftydave
 


Lefty, From what I remember, Clearwater is the mecca of Scientology, I have no idea the reason for that - perhaps its the fact that it has the word 'Clear' in it, and thus referring to becoming 'Clear' once completing Dianetics or Similar scientology procedures.

I also read that one of the most outspoken members against Scientology (and i think he was on that BBC panorama broadcast) was found dead recently, not sure if its true or what, suspected suicide, however it raises interesting questions.....was being in that position (anti) that over bearing for him? Was the pressures of scientology against him too overwhelming.....does OT 15 (CoS friend states they have developed well beyond OT 8, awaiting other events to occur before releasing to churches) - OT15 - have the tech to psychically destroy someone? Either way, its all speculative, but its interesting none the less.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:26 PM
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ok, why don't you post this over at the NSA/FBI sting site... oops I mean anon message board forums.enturbulation.org..., you can get your info right from the hoarses mouth.

I was not involved with anon until a few things happened, the biggest of them was the video releases. then after that a bunch of places I go had discussions about it. I got directed to a thread on the SA forums, I lurked, harbl.wetfish.net... got set up, enturbulation got set up, I started lurking there, an event in my location got set up, I joined, I started participating. this I feel is how the vast majority of the 9000 on 2/10 got involved.

now why was 3/15 picked? it was the first weekend after LRH's birthday, it is a big event for scientologists, we want them to see us. the fact that it fell on St.Pats day and the international protests didn't occur to anyone until after we had announced it and made a bunch of high profile announcements. it didn't occur to us because we are not generally involved with those protests. changing the date would have caused confusion and broken momentum. if you don't want to believe me fine, but you are not part of us, you don't understand our culture, this would have caused problems all I can say is trust me. I have not been involved with anon specificaly before, but I have been involved with similarly organized (vastly smaller scale) events on the internet with communities having a lot of SA/*chan overlap, once someone says "it's happening on suchandsuch date" and a few days later after everyone agrees with this it gets changed there is about a 70% chance the whole thing is going to just die.

is the NSA/FBI watching anonymous, # yeah, they should be, we've called there hotline enough, we've actively encouraged them to watch us so they have on record what we've been planning and how we do # so if the Scilons try to frame us they will know. the white powder incident is a perfect example of this, no one in anonymous thinks we did it, and the FBI has announced there is no connection. so yeah I am fairly damned sure, they are watching us, and keeping logs of who is talking to who, and they know who I am, ect... are they useing this information to help them develop new and innovative ways to spy on people? well I would be disappointed if they were not. did they start it? NO. this has been brewing online for decades, people have been stewing over this for years not doing anything because they didn't want to be the lone protester who got his neighborhood plastered with fliers saying they were a pedophile. the video served for awareness and the DDoS showed you could act and not receive retribution, all the first wave (the old anon tactics of DDoS and pranks) did was embolden the rest of us to actually do something, it wasn't until the first wave stopped and an air of "lets do this right" emerged that the majority of us decided to get involved.

finally since this is a conspiracy board, I feel it only right to postulate the following;
the CoS has an intelligence/counter intelligence/PR division known as the OSA, one of the OSA's many duties is to divert people's attention from them and make there enemies look bad, it seems to me this thread would be a perfect example of something they would come up with. I don't know anyone here, so sorry if I am stomping on a well respected member of your community, but how do I know the OP is not an OSA plant (or in some way being misled or manipulated by one) trying to turn this board against what the CoS sees as it's biggest enemy ever? the intell we have gathered shows they have been getting rather desperate as of late. all I would have to say is look this # up for yourselves and try and make you own conclusions.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by leftydave
Greetings

The other day, in my old home town of Clearwater, a band of masked, paramilitary acting, so called "protesters", stormed downtown, trying to create fear in the minds of the citizens...calling Scientology a cult and demanding...well I don't know what they were demanding...but one thing was clear....most weren't from Clearwater !!They were trucked in from elsewhere, and were well led by military acting "observers" who broke them up in three groups, and surrounded the "churchs'" facilities. It was reminicent of brown shirt activities of Germany in the 30's, and the tactics and last names of the few who were interviewed gave away who they really were !!

Look, anyone with half a brain knows religion has caused nearly ALL of the conflicts of the last 3000 years...the wars, the organized crime, the blatant 'love us-hate them' attitudes that encompass the world today. This felt like one religion attacking another, pure and simple.

But today it was in our own back yard and was the most despicable action I ever saw in my own city by the bay....since cops here started dressing like terrorists to make arrests !!!

I got a real bad feeling in the pit of my stomach when I watched the news,(St Pete Times !!)(Fox news) who generally criticize and condemn nearly all protests in our town, swing their coverage on the side of the " masked insurgents" !!!

(Addendum) Your piece above sites government responsibility...maybe you're right...but Zealots/Zionists are controlling our government...so it''s one and the same.

Blessings

lefty-dave


I dunno why you're panicking. There are hundreds of thousands of luciferians out there, in nearly every conceivable secret society, fraternal order and even mainstream religions like gnosticism and gnostic christianity. If you seriously think this is some concentrated effort to remove your freedom of religion, you should consider yourself welcome to the club of people down threw history who have been harrassed and maligned for their beliefs. your case is not unique in the history of humankind. and pretending this is a problem of religious bigotry is going to be the undoing if your entire train of logical thought. the problem isn't religion. it's people. WE are the problem, not the guy nextdoor or the guy down the street or the people in the road or the people who worship penises or whatever. it's human beings being lead aruond by the nose hairs. Think it threw to the logical conclusion and all you find standing there is; people.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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For anyone interested that wants to know what this war between anonymous and scientology is about I've provided some links

www.eatskeet.com...
defiedreality.com...

The wikipedia entry on 4chan
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by marcabconfederacy
 


I bet all type of people are involved. Members. Ex-members. Genuine anti-members. Cos-members posing as ex-members. Cos-members posing as anonymous. Ex-members posing as members. Government spooks trying to find out what the hell is going on.

But in the end: Who benefits from all this commotion?


We are hoping ex members of the cult. Already we have seen many leave since the protests. At the end of the day we don't like seeing people have their freedom taken away. We like to think this kind of thing shouldn't happen in our society.

Also the freedom of the internet and free speech. The kind sof things we guess a lot of people on these boards are interested in.

The CO$ propoganda attacks at anonymouse like "terrorist" and the like that some people start beleiving as the truth obviously helps them in legal terms. We do not want this to happen. Also it further crushes ex cos members by stating their free speach. We are just trying to pave a road so they can speak without harm. That is all. Its as simple as that. Let ex members speak without harm. No matter what anyone does we will be attacked by CO$ because its their way or the highway.

You can debate till the cows come home wether it is effective or not, but we are being effective.


I'm not saying this to you but i feel some people in this forum are jelous because anonymous is doing what they only dream of doing















posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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reply to post by leftydave
 




hello Mr. Scilon, I would first like to direct you to this Youtube video explaining that we are NOT against you or your religion in any form, we believe in freedom of speech and freedom of information, that is why this started in the first place.
www.youtube.com...
If you are further interested in why we are doing this then look here:
youfoundthecard.com...

we understand you may be too brainwashed to see the truth and will be working hard to free you from this state of mind.
Knowledge is free.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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Fair warning to all. Let's not get personal here. The Terms and Conditions of Use will be honored. This is a post to EVERYONE.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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Tsakara. I hear that anonymous is carrying out protests. Is there truth to this? How long do they plan to do this for?



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Im a Marty
reply to post by leftydave
 

I also read that one of the most outspoken members against Scientology (and i think he was on that BBC panorama broadcast) was found dead recently, not sure if its true or what, suspected suicide, however it raises interesting questions.....was being in that position (anti) that over bearing for him? Was the pressures of scientology against him too overwhelming.....does OT 15 (CoS friend states they have developed well beyond OT 8, awaiting other events to occur before releasing to churches) - OT15 - have the tech to psychically destroy someone? Either way, its all speculative, but its interesting none the less.



you posted this as I was makeing my post, I was going to look to see if there was already a thread about this on this board, is there? if not where would be a good place to post it?

his name was Shawn Lonsdale, and we was found dead in his apartment with a hose running from his car exaust into his room (don't people usual off themselves by running the hose into the car ans sitting there?). there is a bunch of odd information including someone on ARS (a major hub of old anti-Scientology critics) posting that there would be a major "disturbence in the force" within twealve hours, and within twelve hours Shawn was dead. before anyone else, an unknown anonymous poster (calming to be a member of Anonymous but acting very non-anon) posted information about his death days before anyone else knew about it, or before the cops reported anything.

oh yeah and he apparently told someone to "speak out if he didn't turn up one day" or something like that, I can't find the quote off hand.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by Maverickhunter
 


the protests are going on and will continue to go on until the Church of Scientology either changes its practices or is broken apart and disbanded as a religious organization.

the next protest is on 3/15/08. we haven't planned too far beyond that but 4/20/08 has been discussed as the next date, however it will most likely not fall on that date due to its negative connotations.

oh and you and GameFAQS no nothing about Anonymous. your inability to recognize sarcasm is rather disturbing.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by Manincloak
 

It's nice to see someone has sense.


Originally posted by Maverickhunter
It's less retarded than saying that what 4chan and anonymous is doing is something that is being done by the government.

You got me there.


Originally posted by V Kaminski
...a core (some say within the UK) who have had people they care about negatively affected by the practices of the CoS.

No, no, and beyond the character limit no. That is toally false. I have no idea where you got this idea from, but it is not true in the least.


Originally posted by jfj123
...they use voice generators and not voice disguisers which means they are fairly tech savvy

Wrong on so many levels. One would suppose that you think just because you are clearly inept at using a computer that others are of your skill level. Anyone can use Microsoft Sam to read out text, it requires the very least of computer knowledge.


Originally posted by jfj123
My opinion is that anonymous consists of a small group of leaders ages between 23-30, are huge computer techs and probably work in the IT industry. Although it's possible that they are government employees, I tend to think the DDOS attacks are too basic for a more organized, tight nit group of agents working together

ATS is the perfect place for this, as it is a totally insane, factless, all round stupid statement. There are no leaders. There are no ages. There are no agents. Anonymous is leigon.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by Tsakara
 



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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I think that, while it is possible that the FBI/NSA may have had a hand in setting up annonymous and directing these attacks against Scientology, it is more likely that Scientology itself could have set up this group as a front in order to identify and entrap critics of their organization, though I tend to discount that at this point, too. I believe that this was a determined attack against a cult that has has harmed people more than it has helped them. Of course, if someone does have the proof in documentary form that the NSA/FBI or Scientology has set this up, I am more than willing to take a look at it.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by Maverickhunter
The wikipedia entry on 4chan
en.wikipedia.org...


Never, ever cite wikipedia as a source of information. You might as well link to your own post to second your idea.



posted on Feb, 24 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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well i think the only thing i find suspicious about anon is the phrase "We do not forgive." that makes them seem like they have no compassion or the ability to forgive others. this is not the kind of PR you want to present to a world filled with people who are taught forgiveness is the ultimate solution to all of life's ills.

i agree that injustice is bad.
but two wrongs have never made a right.
the idea is missing logic.





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