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it was just a bad dream, but it probably meant something to me at the time...what, I don't know because I can't remember enough about my life at the time to make the connection. But I think I had just been watching too much television...lol. I'm just a little younger and televisions was a novelty NOT to be ignored when I was that age.
God says he knew us before we were born. Also, Christianity believes that when we die we go "home" to be with God. Going back home would imply that we left home for some reason. Haven't figured out why that is yet, unless maybe we were kicked out...lol...and for that I couldn't quite blame him. We are a funny lot.
God said he created us in his image...and you are correct that many have rather tried to fit themselves into the image of God. However, Jesus did say that "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father". But I think this means we have seen his behavior and this behavior gives us a model to follow. I am a Christian, but I do try not to push my beliefs on anyone that doesn't have an interest.
I simply say what I believe and why, when asked. That is one reason I dislike the "athiests against Christian" threads even though I seem to be drawn to them out of interest, and sometimes find I have input. But I digress...I do believe God is more of a spirit form of consciousness. It is possible that our spirits are our consiousness or unconsciousness. I have read where individuals who have NDE's see their lives pass before them very quickly. Could this be a sort of "download" of our mortal life memories into our new spirit being at death?
I do agree that God is everywhere, in everything and to a certain extent, in everyone. The amount of God a person holds could be related to his/her openness to him. The Bible, therefore, would give us instruction for how to obtain more God. Having more God would make us more God-like.
...and I see we can agree to disagree about our differing beliefs in our God.
I believe that these discussions in a "quiet" way are worthy of pursuit.
I have more to add in the following post. Hope I'm not boring you.
Well, I obviously messed up my quotes, but I think you'll figure it out.
I wanted to ask you if you ever had dreams that didn't involve yourself in the dream. You answered that question when you spoke of the dream you had when you were 5.
I also have dreams where I feel as if I'm watching a movie. Other people are the subjects of the dream and I am watching everything take place like an observer. I had one such dream last night...and it was so real I had to wonder if I had not entered another dimension. However, I know I didn't because the subjects in the dream were two actors who have appeared in a movie together. And the dream...it was just so real...just like I was with them while everything was happening, but I never saw myself. Usually in my dreams, I am the subject. But more and more lately, I've had these dreams where I am not involved at all.
Your input would be greatly appreciated.
from Memories, Dreams, Reflections: pg 319
The question of karma is obscure to me, as is also the problem of personal rebirth or of the transmigration of souls. 'With a free and open mind' I listened attentively to the Indian doctrine of rebirth, and look around in the world of my own experience to see whether somewhere and somehow there is some authentic sign pointing toward reincarnation. Naturally, I do not count the relatively numerous testimonies here in the West, to the belief in reincarnation. A belief proves to me only the phenomenon of belief, not the content of the belief. This I must see revealed empirically in order to accept it. until a few years ago I could not discover anything convincing in this respect, although I kept a sharp lookout for any such signs. Recently, however, I observed in myself a series of dreams which would seem to describe the process of reincarnation in a deceased person of my acquaintance. But I have never come across any such dreams in other persons, and therefore have no basis for comparison. Since this observation is subjective and unique, I prefer only to mention its existence and not go into it further. I must confess, however, that after this experience I view the problem of reincarnation with somewhat different eyes, though without being in a position to assert a definite opinion.
Originally posted by masqua
(This portion is the third and final part of what originally was the OP)
The unconscious is our constant companion... like a guardian angel, watching over and preparing us for life's bumpy ride. It talks to us in our dreams while our conscious mind is taking a break from the hectic reality of our days. Our guardian angel never leaves us and watches every thing we think, say and do. Jung calls this our personal unconscious.
But, there's more... your personal guardian angel is also in contact with every other guardian angel everywhere else. This notion is called the collective unconscious and it is very much like the all knowing God who is everywhere at once. The collective unconscious remembers every thought of everyone who has ever lived and your personal guardian angel is also informed of what is to become of you in the future. But the only way it has to communicate to you is through those moments when your consciousness is off-guard... in dreams or when you're concentrating on simple tasks such as hoeing a potato patch (for instance). It doesn't use words, it uses imagery and symbols to communicate.
Pay attention to your dreams... imo, it is God talking to you. It may not be your demise it is hinting at... it may be what you need to do for success and happinness in your long life and into your old age.
It's understandable because an observation such as Jung proposes would cut all those Benny Hinn clones out of the mix. Just think... you are in contact with your Creator every day and night, never alone, and, best of all, none of the trappings of religion are needed; no plates getting passed around, no Tammy Faye tears besmirching powdered cheeks with mascara. All those money/power grubbing individuals getting rich off religions just may be, if Jung is right, completely superfluous.
Yes there is some good to be obtained.
Keep buying into the lies of the middle-men who wish to sell you salvation, because they, at the very least, make you aware of the presence of God.
Um, I'm not quite sure it's God that is the commodity. It may be something different. However, I don't want to belittle the true, well-meaning churches that do exist.
They've attached a price tag and made God a commodity to be sold.
Don't you just hate that? Another money-grubbing institution.
Like sat/cable TV, there's 500 channels and nothing on.
God says he knew us before we were born. Also, Christianity believes that when we die we go "home" to be with God. Going back home would imply that we left home for some reason. Haven't figured out why that is yet, unless maybe we were kicked out...lol...and for that I couldn't quite blame him. We are a funny lot. I_R
In this quote, there are a number of issues being presented which need discussing;
-If "God knew us before we were born", it follows that after we were born, God no longer knows us.
-If "Christianity believes that when we die we go 'home'", it also follows that we are returned to God's presence after death then we had been lost to God in our lifetimes.
IMO, God never leaves us. God knows us before we are born, stays with us during our lifetime and is still with us after we die. This is because God is a part of us. We are at all times inseparable from God. We are a "funny lot", as you say, but this is because we have been cut off from God and can no longer listen to what God is saying (because religions needed to become the intermediaries. They, the Churches, require seperation from that connection which still exists between mankind and God. We have been hoodwinked by those who would prosper by 'selling' that re-connection back to you.
Actually, I think I was being a little silly when I said that maybe God kicked us out. I think he knew our spirits before we were born and still knows us. We are on a "timeline" which he exists outside of, so he can see past, present and future as you said earlier (somewhere). I do think he seeded our spirits before birth. If we existed in some form of life before our birth here, perhaps our consiousness is erased at birth, just as perhaps our consiousness of our lives on this earth is downloaded back into our spirit or unconsiousness at death. Oh, am I making sense at all?
I also am not sure that our re-connection is being sold back to us. We do afterall need a savior, which is why Jesus came. Here we have a disagreement I think, but my mind is open to your opinion, as always.
We also agree that many would place themselves in a 'higher position' with God; kings and queens, popes and parsons, believers who surmise they are 'closer to God' than their neighbours. This is the greatest deceit of them all. But as you have pointed out, "Jesus did say that if you have seen me, you have seen the Father". A perfect example that God does not differentiate between people or religions. Jesus, being the 'Son of God' would know that to be the truth. However, as with all things religious, it is open to interpretations;
Jesus is God in a mortal human form and to see Jesus is to see the Father, but is it the individual person in Jesus or is it the mortal form where we can see God? In my opinion, since God is everything in the universe, then God is in all forms, including the mortal human form.
Agreed, God is in us if we accept him. There are those, you know who don't. Would you want to want to live with someone forever that didn't accept you? I agree that God is in everything and everywhere, except that I don't want to leave the impression that I would believe that we are gods in human form or that we can attain godship. I don't believe that.
You won't see me arguing in "athiests against Christian" debates either, since I believe them both to be wrong. Atheists, because they don't believe and Christians, because they believe in what is the truth as I see it, but place God outside of themselves, accessable only through Church and Bible.
Well not all of us do. I think it might be a matter of semantics there between you and I. I believe God is in me, not just outside of me, although he is outside of me too since he is everywhere. Accessability is obtainable. I believe in many ways, we have shut God out.
I have had an NDE when I was in my early 20's, and saw myself seperated from my body. It was NOT a pleasant experience and frightened me. To find myself floating above my body was unexpected and VERY disconcerting. The shock of that predicament slammed me back into my body immediately. Today, I think perhaps I failed a 'great test' at that moment and since then have dedicated a great deal of time, through meditation techniques, to duplicate that event. Regardless, the release from my body only solidified my belief in the soul and in God.
Then something good came from it since it solidified your belief. What you think you may have missed is probably of no importance since you did, indeed miss it.
I did NOT see my "life pass before" me. In the split second where I realized that my body was lying below, only shock registered to my mind. Maybe I wasn't 'ready' yet and the flood of memories still await at the moment of my true mortal death. Perhaps that 'download' you speak of is what I will carry into the afterlife to be read and considered, weighed and measured as a final accounting of the life I have lived. Hopefully the positives will outweigh my many sins.
You are on the same track as me there. We will be judged...how, we don't know yet. But we will have to see those memories to agree they are correct during the judgement. I have also ready many stories of NDE's that did not have the memory download experience, so perhaps it depends on the length of the NDE or some other factor that was out of your control.
Originally posted by masqua
Awoke at 4:44 AM (normal time for me). The dream as I remember it upon awakening:
( working backwards )
I am looking at a globe and focussed on the North Pole. The entire globe is white. I am thinking "this is wrong, the features are too big."
Were you looking at the globe from above? Was there anything you could see at the time besides the globe in the background...sky or anything?
The features (all etched in black upon white) which look wrong are several rectangles like swimming pools. I determine the globe is a poor representation because;
- no swimming pools could be so large as to cover an area the size of Ireland
-no swimming pools would be at the North Pole
There is a very large feature, like a huge mountain range, crescent shaped, to the left of the swimming pools. I am aware that this could have been the result of a large collision with another heavenly body. I am not concerned and only slightly interested in the feature.
Since you're an artsy type, have you sketched what you saw? I would like to see if if you have.
I am walking out of a familiar room, singing. There are 3 others present at this moment; my very close astronomer friend, a stranger I did not know, myself and also myself as the observer. (I watched as I left the room)
Did this take place after your vision of the globe; I mean, did your perspective just sort of immediately change from viewing the globe to being in the room?
My good friend has borought out a small device, connected by wire, and laid it upon the floor. He said, excitedly, "It's working", whereupon I was prompted to sing. The device did not work, though.
What did the device look like? Can you give a better description? HA! What were you singing?
This is all I remember for now.
Waiting with baited breath
If we existed in some form of life before our birth here, perhaps our consciousness is erased at birth, just as perhaps our consciousness of our lives on this earth is downloaded back into our spirit or unconsciousness at death. Oh, am I making any sense at all?
I don't want to leave the impression that I would believe that we are gods in human form or that we can attain godship. I don't believe that.
Was there anything you could see at the time besides the globe...?
...did your perspective just sort of immediately change from viewing the globe to being in the room?
All the dreams you have as a child have the potential to shape your future
In the tower at Bollingen it is as if one lived in many centuries simultaneously. The place will outlive me, and in its location and style points backwards to things long ago. There is very little of it to suggest the present. If a man of the sixteenth century were to move about the house, only the kerosine lamp, and the matches would be new to him; otherwise, he would know his way about without difficulty. there is nothing to disturb the dead, neither electric light nor telephone. Moreover, my ancestors' souls are sustained by the atmosphere of the house, since I answer questions that their lives once left behind.
Now I see why I've been the viewer rather than the participant in my dreams lately. That would be the Watcher, right? Now I need to ponder what I'm feeling so guilty about, I guess.