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Originally posted by GUICE2
hE WAS JUST A MAN.....just a human being with divine knowledge that has been kept from us all along. he learned the mystic schools and the language of light, then he returned understanding that you cant just teach these things right out to people because of the forces of control and their own slavery to the way they think. So he taught how to love and care for each other and look for reason and the truth by not accepting the authority that was laid before them. People are blind but not because they cant see....because there are so many damn walls both internal and external which we are taught that we cant run right through them. There are so many illusions of legitimacy that the truth doesnt set you free becaus4e when you reveal it, like jesus did, those who wanted to keep it underwraps will kill you.
It is important for the world to see jesus as a divine prohpet when really he was just a man.
Originally posted by dave420
That's my whole point. This thread is discussing whether a fictional character was a magician. It's like asking whether Han Solo was a vegetarian or if Gandalf would have approved of microwave ovens. It's an absolutely pointless discussion
"Jesus, on account of his poverty, was hired out to go to Egypt. While there he acquired certain [magical] powers... He returned home highly elated at possessing these powers, and on the strength of them gave himself out to be a god... It was by means of sorcery that He was able to accomplish the wonders which He performed... Let us believe that these cures, or the resurrection, or the feeding of a multitude with a few loaves... These are nothing more than the tricks of jugglers... It is by the names of certain demons, and by the use of incantations, that the Christians appear to be possessed of [miraculous] power..."
He was therefore a man, and of such a nature, as the truth itself proves, and reason demonstrates him to be.
After this, through the influence of some motive which is unknown to me, Celsus asserts that it is by the names of certain demons, and by the use of incantations, that the Christians appear to be possessed of (miraculous) power; hinting, I suppose, at the practices of those who expel evil spirits by incantations. And here he manifestly appears to malign the Gospel. For it is not by incantations that Christians seem to prevail (over evil spirits), but by the name of Jesus, accompanied by the announcement of the narratives which relate to Him; for the repetition of these has frequently been the means of driving demons out of men, especially when those who repeated them did so in a sound and genuinely believing spirit. Such power, indeed, does the name of Jesus possess over evil spirits, that there have been instances where it was effectual, when it was pronounced even by bad men, which Jesus Himself taught
(would be the case), when He said: "Many shall say to Me in that day, In Thy name we have cast out devils, and done many wonderful works." Whether Celsus omitted this from intentional malignity, or from ignorance, I do not know. And he next proceeds to bring a charge against the Saviour Himself, alleging that it was by means of sorcery that He was able to accomplish the wonders which He performed; and that foreseeing that others would attain the same knowledge, and do the same things, making a boast of doing them by help of the power of God, He excludes such from His kingdom. And his accusation is, that if they are justly excluded, while He Himself is guilty of the same practices, He is a wicked man; but if He is not guilty of wickedness in doing such things, neither are they who do the same as He. But even if it be impossible to show by what power Jesus wrought these miracles, it is clear that Christians employ no spells or incantations, but the simple, name of Jesus, and certain other words in which they repose faith, according to the holy Scriptures.
Originally posted by GUICE2
You see, the catholic church created dogma around jesus for a reason....control.
Jesus was a man and yes he went to ancient egypt because that is where we all come from.....he was lucky enough to be free because he was independently wealthy. Carpenters were not poor back then people i mean think about it....they built everything! You think society would let them be poor? HA!!
Originally posted by sumperson
What if jesus was the greatest magician of all time? Im probably going to get laughed at a lot with this one.
But, magicians like David Blaine and Lance Burton can make things float, I saw David Blaine float
What if Jesus perfected the craft in his missing years in the bible?
Originally posted by GUICE2
a joker?
Then why kill him off? Why all the controversy in the church regarding his married status? Why the questions regarding his continual bloodline from independant reserachers that have nothing to do with religion?
WHY WHY WHY.....the man did exist. His message is the same as many but he posed a threat to the current administration which was solidified in a small area so word gets around quickly. Now its a little different......same idea though.
Originally posted by AshleyD
Originally posted by dave420
That's my whole point. This thread is discussing whether a fictional character was a magician. It's like asking whether Han Solo was a vegetarian or if Gandalf would have approved of microwave ovens. It's an absolutely pointless discussion
First of all, you'll have to prove to me He didn't exist. The evidence is by far in my favor. However, let's say for argument's sake He did not exist. This would still be an interesting subject to discuss. Let's use a critical excerpt from the polemicist, Celsus, of the 2nd century : [...]
Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by AshleyD
Cool stuff Ashley! what about that mud?
So Celsus set out to debunk Jesus. But the very fact that he was worth debunking proves his existence and (at the least) that he did amazing things that were not easily dismissed.
The one thing you guys who say he was a myth are missing is perspective and context. The growth of the Christian church out of a few fishemen outlaws into 2 billion believers out to mean something.
During Jesus lifetime there were many "nut jobs" that made the same claims and even had a following. But it died off - no one was willing to die for it - or even preserve it. If Jesus was a fake or didn't exist the stories would have died off as well.
How many people have Millie Vanillie posters on their wall today?
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. 33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them. 34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; 35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. 36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. 37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. 38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.( Acts 5:29-39)
Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Cool stuff Ashley! what about that mud?
So Celsus set out to debunk Jesus. But the very fact that he was worth debunking proves his existence and (at the least) that he did amazing things that were not easily dismissed.
During Jesus lifetime there were many "nut jobs" that made the same claims and even had a following. But it died off - no one was willing to die for it - or even preserve it. If Jesus was a fake or didn't exist the stories would have died off as well.
Acts 5:33-39 (New International Version)
When they [The Sanhedrin] heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death. But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. Then he addressed them: "Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing.
After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."
How many people have Millie Vanillie posters on their wall today?
Originally posted by mrwupy
I believe Jesus existed.
He was the L. Ron Hubberd of his day.
Originally posted by Lokey13
anyone own a jesus birth certificate?
"There is a village in Judea, thirty-five stadia from Jerusalem, where Jesus Christ was born, as you can see from the tax registers under Cyrenius, your first procurator in Judea..."