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Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, [who was called Christ], whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king [Agrippa], desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrim without his consent.
Originally posted by sumperson
Excuse me AshleyD but please tell me what it is you want me to try and prove. I am mearly asking a question not arguing any point.
Originally posted by deenamarie53
To me magic/majik has occultic connations... Now, if Jesus used magic to bring about healings and resurrection(s) that means He would've invoked the/any powers OUTSIDE of Himself through ritual magic. It's my understanding that nowhere do we have sources (scriptural or secular) that intimates any such notion... They had no personal belongings and held any material items... No texts or tools of the trade used for ritual magic or divination was to be found within their wandering community.
The neighbors therefore, and those who saw that he was blind before, said, "Isn't this he who sat and begged?" Others were saying, "It is he." Still others were saying, "He looks like him."
He said, "I am he." They therefore were asking him, "How were your eyes opened?"
He answered, "A man called Jesus made mud, anointed my eyes, and said to me, 'Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash.' So I went away and washed, and I received sight."
Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by passenger
NOTE:I don't object to intelligent discussion on this topic. I just get offended when people act like he was doing card tricks or intensionally deceiving people.
Originally posted by passenger
Originally posted by deenamarie53
To me magic/majik has occultic connations... Now, if Jesus used magic to bring about healings and resurrection(s) that means He would've invoked the/any powers OUTSIDE of Himself through ritual magic. It's my understanding that nowhere do we have sources (scriptural or secular) that intimates any such notion... They had no personal belongings and held any material items... No texts or tools of the trade used for ritual magic or divination was to be found within their wandering community.
Again, comparing our modern definition of “magic” and what the ancients would consider it to be is comparing apples and oranges. If a shaman produced an extract of willow bark to cure pain and couched the production in terms of “magic” it would have meant entirely something different to a modern person who equates it with the “magic’ of aspirin.
Jesus’ chroniclers may have not had recorded tricks or methods to achieve his cures but that does not prove he did not use “magic” tricks in order to achieve his results. He did say to his followers, on numerous occasions, that they didn’t understand the principles involved in an act or that they weren’t ready or worthy to receive certain knowledge. That may imply a lack of “spiritual” readiness or it may have implied a lack of actual knowledge of accepted and (now) commonplace principles. To Jesus and his followers it would have been closely guarded esoteric secrets. To our modern sensibility it would have just been “magic”.
Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by AshleyD
That's my whole point. This thread is discussing whether a fictional character was a magician. It's like asking whether Han Solo was a vegetarian or if Gandalf would have approved of microwave ovens. It's an absolutely pointless discussion