Vision,

you say that there is a bit of 'nastiness' associated with the Debunking of Mr. Horn. This is true, indeed, but it is only LIKE for LIKE.

In my discussions with him I have attempted to be forthright, true and kind, even apologetic if I felt as if he'd been 'damaged' by a remark, however, he defends HIS nonsensical SPIN so vehemently that HE is the one who instigates and begins this 'nastiness'. So what you see in the so called 'Debunking' of him is only a REFLECTION of himself in those who he's belittled as IDIOTS and etc. I am sorry to say it, but looking at the 'INFORMATION' that is SPUN by Mr. Horn to SUPPORT his claims is, well, LUDICROUS! I'm sorry to pose the question but, "Who's the Idiot here?" More often than not there is 'projecting' from him onto others. That would be to say that he accuses other people of behaving as HE HIMSELF is behaving. He presents information that is OBVIOUSLY Against his case and expects people to accept it as PROOF when his OWN so called evidence is completely against him. So, once more, who's the imbecile or idiot?

I wish Mr. Horn all the best but he himself INSISTS that you OWN YOUR WORDS and MEAN WHAT YOU SAY and SAY WHAT YOU MEAN. So, that is what I've done. But for all intents and purposes Mr. Horn's words seem to twist and wane according to the direction the wind is blowing at any given time which is NOT in line with what he expects from others.

[edit on 27-3-2008 by Teri Uhouse]

Most likely you're exactly right, he's too insignificant to bother with.

And of course, this is exactly why Horn will continue to use, and get away with using, the names of others to support the Meier stories....

Hello Teri.

I'm very happy to see that response from Charles Fletcher. I would love it if you would email it to me so that I can add it to my collection of misquotes that will be appearing on the IIG website in the near future. BTW, I've been reading your threads on Department47, but I haven't had the time to do any posting there. My email address is derek@iigwest.com

Also, VisionQuest, I am not a "debunker" and I don't think that many people here are. I am an investigator into the claims of Billy Meier and to date none of his "evidence" has held up to scientific scrutiny. That you are upset with the results of these investigations is nothing I can help you with.

I've been offline for awhile due to a new work project and I am really behind in getting my research posted on the IIG website, but I think that once it is done it will become a clearing house for all questions related to Billy Meier and his "evidence" of extra-terrestrial contacts. There is so much more that I have to reveal and I just haven't had the time to collect everything together and write it down in a coherent way. There are just so many pieces of information to deal with in this case due to its longevity that it can get a little frustrating at times.

Talk to you later.

-Derek

I don't need some tree expert to tell me the guy is a thief, a liar, and a downright CRIMINAL who I'd love to meet in a dark alley.

Originally posted by derekcbart


That you are upset with the results of these investigations is nothing I can help you with.

-Derek

For you to even hint or suggest that I am upset with you, or Teri's findings is proof that your investigative skills need work.





[edit on 28-3-2008 by VisionQuest]

Originally posted by VisionQuest
For you to even hint or suggest that I am upset with you, or Teri's findings is proof that your investigative skills need work.

I'm sorry, you're right. I read a bunch of threads at once late last night and confused your statements with someone else's from a different thread.

My apologies.

-Derek

Originally posted by rocksarerocks
I don't need some tree expert to tell me the guy is a thief, a liar, and a downright CRIMINAL who I'd love to meet in a dark alley.

Me too, and the reason I think this thread should continue is the fact there is some evidence that unsuspecting people are being harmed and/or in harms way from this group (FIGU) whom Horn is the leader of in America.

I can blow off a liar, I can protect myself from a thief, but it really pisses me off when I have information of criminal and physical/psychological abusive activities.

The case and the thread should go on until FIGU and these matters just become a pile of rubbish on the interent. (repeat - I'm saying that for those unsuspecting persons out there that have yet to develop defensive tactics to corrupt internet recruiters.)

Does it sound like I have it "IN" for Horn and FIGU? You Bet.

(PS) This really has nothing to do with Meier or his alleged UFO's - he's just a mental case that is being used by the same group. I suspect harmless and ignorant to many issues.

Originally posted by Will Uhouse

Originally posted by rocksarerocks
I don't need some tree expert to tell me the guy is a thief, a liar, and a downright CRIMINAL who I'd love to meet in a dark alley.

Me too, and the reason I think this thread should continue is the fact there is some evidence that unsuspecting people are being harmed and/or in harms way from this group (FIGU) whom Horn is the leader of in America.

I'm not necessarily on the Horn bandwagon either, but it is obvious to me that there is some sort of motive of vendetta here against him, based on an absence of evidence by both of you. Congratulations.

Links? Eyewitnesses? Nothing. Please don't waste our time here. There's real work to be done elsewhere.

^Obviously what these two have done has upset you or you wouldn't keep coming back to this thread every time someone posts in it.

For someone who says they're not on the Horn bandwagon, you defend him like you are. You've defended him so much in this thread you come off as a supporter or possibly even Horn himself. You've obviously taken what they've done personally or why else keep visiting the thread?

And no, I'm not actually saying you're Horn himself, but I know he's been known to create a few accounts here on ATS and I wouldn't be surprised if you happened to actually be him.

He's making money off people by misquoting the one's who have seen the pictures and others who haven't even seen the photos or even know who Horn or Meier are. IMHO people have the right to investigate him even if others believe him to be insignificant.

How would you feel if you're name was attached to something you have nothing to do with and someone was making money off it? I doubt you'd sit there and let it go.

Originally posted by nightmare_david
^Obviously what these two have done has upset you or you wouldn't keep coming back to this thread every time someone posts in it.

For someone who says they're not on the Horn bandwagon, you defend him like you are. You've defended him so much in this thread you come off as a supporter or possibly even Horn himself. You've obviously taken what they've done personally or why else keep visiting the thread?

.

Its quite peculiar how many times you MeierBlasters throw out "you must be upset/you must be Horn" when I simply ask for evidence of your claims, and hold you to the same high standards I hold Horn to.

Is that really all you've got? I could care less about this case and all that entails proving/dissproving it. I think goes for many with the exception of Horn and a small few.

To be perfectly honest, I respond to this thread because it gets revived every now and then by peculiarly emotional individuals and thrown to the top of the heap of what are normally interesting topics. It sticks out like an unwanted pimple in the morning after a night of hard drinking. By responding of course, I uncharacteristically keep it alive.

Well, consider this post my last attempt to keep it alive. Consider the pimple popped. I expect it to fall south like a duck in winter, considering most of us here are interested in real UFO research. And because I am interested in other topics, that MUST mean I am Michael Horn. Great investigative work. I'll make sure to call you next time I see a light in the sky.

I'm sorry to be the one to break this to you, but your efforts at making Meier/Horn into criminals is old news. Bottom line: Not that many people really care about it. Do you see 15 stars on this thread?


(yawn)




[edit on 1-5-2008 by VisionQuest]

Part 2:

A) The quarterly newsletter «Voice of the Aquarian Age» (Stimme der Wassermannzeit) is
FIGU’s official magazine and contains all announcements regarding new publications of written
material and events, etc. (language: German!)
It is MANDATORY for all PASSIVE GROUP MEMBERS to obtain a subscription of the «Voice of
the Aquarian Age» (Stimme der Wassermannzeit). The subscription charges for the first 12
editions must be paid with the first annual FIGU membership fee as follows (all charges include
free Shipping and handling):

Switzerland CHF 75.00 [US $72.38]
Foreign Countries (Europe) CHF 90.00 [US $86.85]
Overseas «Economy» CHF 100.00 [US $96.50]
Overseas «Priority»Air Mail CHF 155.00 (with air mail postage surcharge) [US $149.58]

B1) ANNUAL FIGU MEMBERSHIP FEE for PASSIVE GROUP MEMBERS CHF 30.00 [US $28.95]
2) One-time application and I.D.fee CHF 30.00 [US $28.95]

C) Furthermore, in accordance with a resolution passed at the Passive Group General Assembly
on May 9, 1992, a mandatory annual contribution of 7% of one (1) month’s salary must be
made. Starting with pension age this annual contribution of 7% is cancelled.
The annual membership fee and once-a-year contribution of 7% of one (1) month’s salary
must be received by FIGU no later than April 25th, otherwise the Passive-Group membership
becomes automatically null and void. [example based on a $2,000 monthly salary you'd pay $140 a year]

D) In accordance with a resolution passed at the Passive Group General Assembly on May 9,
1992, it is every Passive Group member’s obligation to work 3 full days annually at the FIGU
‹Center› in Hinterschmidrüti (Switzerland). The mandatory work days must be performed, at
any time, between the beginning of April and the end of October. For each work day not performed
at the Center, a further contribution of CHF 70.00/per non-working day (with a total of
CHF 210.00 [US $202.65] for 3 non-working days) must be paid by April 25th of the following year. This obligatory
‹work-or-pay› contribution is enforceable until the member’s 65th birthday.
All proceeds from the 3-day work regulation aid the Center’s expansion and maintenance, but
the work requirements are primarily intended to help everyone get aquainted with each other,
and to give Passive Group members an insight into FIGU’s tasks and activities.

E) On the 4th Saturday in May of each year a Passive Group General Assembly will be held and
each member should be present if possible. At the Assembly each Passive Group member
has a voice and may vote on certain parts of the agenda if necessary.

F) I am aware that, in accordance with the Passive Group by-laws, I am obliged to apply for a
membership l.D. from FIGU. I am enclosing one recent passport photo to be used for the l.D.
and the FIGU membership files.

G) FIGU I.D APPLICATION:

1a) The l.D. given to me by FIGU does not represent an official document and must not be
misinterpreted and/or misused as such.
1b) Misuse of the l.D. will result in its confiscation without compensation for any damages
incurred, including Iegal charges by local authorities.
1c) FIGU refuses to accept any responsibility on the l.D. owner’s behalf for any repercussions
resulting from l.D. misuse.
1d) The use of FIGU’s Passive Group membership l.D. as a pseudo-official document is
punishable by law and is, accordingly, governed by the legal system’s charges and prosecution.
2) The Free Community of Interests’ I.D. is a FIGU document as well and serves to verify
the bearer’s connection with this group, and to confirm his/her membership. Simultaneously,
it represents the bearer’s authenticity in contrast to other like-minded, but non
FIGU groups and private individuals with the same interests.
3) A FIGU l.D. is only provided in conjunction with the study of the ‹Spirit Lessons› (Geisteslehr-
Briefe) or a membership in a FIGU group.
H) I am aware that a PASSIVE-GROUP FIGU membership indicates that each and every STATUTE and
BY-LAW, as well as all resolut

Part 3:

BY-LAW, as well as all resolutions of the Passive Group General Assembly, apply to me fully,
and that I entirely concede to them.
I) I acknowledge, accept, and consent to all of the above points, rules regulations and personally
declare myself in agreement with all of them.
Date: Signed:
You will have to pay your membership fees in advance to the following post bank account:
80-13703-3, Zürich
Freie Interessengemeinschaft für Grenz- und Geisteswissenschaften / CH-8495 Schmidrüti/ZH
IBAN: CH06 0900 0000 80013703 3
SWIFT Code/BIC: P O F I C H B E
Empfängerbank: Swiss Post, PostFinance, Nordring 8, CH-3030 Bern
Clearing-Nummer: 09000
PG1/12.07/e

A mandatory donation of 7% of one months salary is tithing any way you look at it. So it's not religious and not a Cult?

Last edited by FredSmith on Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:08 am; edited 1 time in total

***END***

I have checked this out. It is TRUE according to FIGU themselves.

This has already been shown on this thread but is even more convincing when seen all together so here are 4 emails from people who have PROVEN that Michael Horn tells lies.

Gentlemen:
An estimate of tree height (actually only the top portion of a single
particular tree) that I made several years ago in good faith has been
taken out of context and misused to purport things that I did not
intend. Further, my observations have been misappropriated and
misapplied to photographs that I have never seen and situations that I
have never reviewed. I want to assure you that I have never purported
to authenticate any photos of alleged UFOs for Mr. Deardorff, Mr. Meier,
Mr. Horn, or anyone else. Nor have I ever purported to determine the
authenticity of any trees in any photos of alleged UFOs for anyone. Mr.
Deardorff contacted me some years ago and asked if I could provide
information about a tree in a photo that included an alleged UFO. The
photo was of poor quality, but I assumed that the tree in the photo was
real and gave an estimate of the height of the portion of the tree above
the alleged UFO based on that assumption. I did not opine that the tree
in the photo was truly real rather than a model, that the alleged UFO
was real, or that the photograph was real and unaltered. I certainly
have never offered any support to Mr. Deardorff or Mr. Meier for their
claims that there are real UFOs or real trees in any photograph. I hope
this will end the matter and that neither my name nor that of Oregon
State University will be used inaccurately again in connection with
these photographs. To this end, I have copied the General Counsel of
Oregon State University, and I will direct any further communication
about this matter to them. Thank you for your cooperation.

Dr. Edward C. Jensen
Oregon State University

1)
From: Donald Hanley
Date: February 22, 2008 9:02:02 AM PST
To: Derek Bartholomaus
Subject: RE: Forestry Quotation Question

I have no idea how you got my name nor do I wish to comment on these photos. Do not continue to use my name in this fashion.

Don Hanley
WSU Extension Forester

2)
From: Everett Hansen
Date: February 25, 2008 11:51:41 AM PST
To: Derek Bartholomaus
Subject: Re: Fwd: Forestry Quotation Question

I have not "authenticated real trees", or made any other definitive statements about these photos. My observations are being misrepresented, and my name and affiliation are being used without my permission.
Everett Hansen

3)
From Fletcher, Charles
to truthsmacabre@gmail.com,
cc "Jensen, Edward C." ,
date Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 8:35 AM
subject UFOs, Trees, Authentication, Horn, Meier
mailed-by oregonstate.edu

Ms. Hayes:

Dr. Edward Jensen forwarded your query below to me for response. As Dr.
Jensen made clear to Mr. Horn in the email you quote, he did not
authenticate any trees in any photos referred to. And there is no basis
for the statement that "Forestry Experts" at Oregon State University
"authenticated real trees in Meier's UFO photos."

If you have a chance to look at "The Silent Revolution of Truth," you
will see how ridiculous all this is. This matter does not deserve
comment, but now you have ours.

-------------------------------
Charles E. Fletcher
Associate General Counsel
Oregon State University
638 Kerr Administration Bldg.
Corvallis, OR 97331-2128
(541) 737-6262
(541) 737-0712 (fax)
charles.fletcher@oregonstate.edu

And, this just in this morning. According to Horn's web site as regards his new movie, The Silent Revolution of Truth, Marc Weigert of Uncharted Territory has dealt the "DEATH BLOW" to all who would cry 'fraud' with his remarks as to the difficulty that must have come with creating the 8mm film. However and as usual his remarks were taken COMPLETELY out of context and are anything BUT the Death Blow for anything. I contacted Marc Weigert myself and, just this morning, I received this response from him:

From: "Marc Weigert / Uncharted Territory" Add Mobile Alert
To: "'Teri Hayes'" uthsmacabre@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Uncharted Territory website: The Silent Revolution of Truth video
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 08:13:54 -0700

Hi Teri,

I'm currently getting a lot of questions like yours.
I can tell you it was definitely not our intent to validate the

"Authenticity" of Billy Meier's "UFO's". There were actually quite a
lot of
other things we said, including that the UFOs look suspiciously like
models
and on top of that, like some 50s or 70s human design.

But, to be fair, we did make the statement about that single shot which
we
saw on video, transferred from Super8 film. But that this shot would be
difficult to achieve doesn't make everything real...

Cheers,
Marc

Marc Weigert
CEO
Uncharted Territory, LLC
2101 Kew Drive

Los Angeles, CA 90046
ph +1.310.670.8635 x5

fax +1.310.496.0803

www.uncharted-territory.com

Co-Producer/VFX Supervisor
Columbia Pictures
"FAREWELL ATLANTIS"
10202 W. Washington Blvd.

Capra Bldg. Ste 110
Culver City, CA 90232

ph +1.310.244.2434

farewellatlantis@uncharted-territory.com

So Marc saw ONLY one small portion of one film which was actually 'transfered' on to a VHS! Why not show him the actual 'super 8mm' film? I am positive that they could have pretty simply located a film projector for it to be able to have a look at the actual film. Why was it 'transfered' to VHS first? This on top of the remarks Horn uses being taken out of context without the entire comments being disclosed. But than again, their comments prove NOTHING other than that the single shot that they were shown would have been difficult to create in the 70's but when read in it's entirety the sum of all the statements could not be used to authenticate or PROVE anything so some comments were conveniently left out.