Originally posted by smirkley
The US constitutional right to bear arms has nothing to do with,..

hunting squirrels or bambi,..
feeding your family,..
protecting your home from a robber,..
nor protecting our shoreline (unless attacked).

What the hell is it about then?

Crime is almost always directly perportional to the state of the economy and the poor getting poorer.

Originally posted by mouko_ryuu
What the hell is it about then?

It was meant so the people could defend themselves against tyranny in government.


and that is it.

Crime is almost always directly perportional to the state of the economy and the poor getting poorer.

This may be the case....However GUN related crime was what I was trying to describe.....

Criminals just have to invent different ways to perform the holdup (syringes, knives etc)

On a side note The crimes using the weapons stated above are on the rise...

Curious, OC, what is the economy like down under, and how long has it been that way?

"This may be the case....However GUN related crime was what I was trying to describe.....

Criminals just have to invent different ways to perform the holdup (syringes, knives etc)

On a side note The crimes using the weapons stated above are on the rise... "

Exactly, guns are just a side effect, the cause is what needs to be addressed. Obviously, we need to enforce and make the punishment for crimes harsher, not eliminate the tools.


And the primary cause for guns most likely was oppression from the gov. (I haven't researched, so I don't know), but thos other things you mentions smirkley, I'm pretty sure they also wanted to protect those things.

Would this work or Not? that is the quiestion.


A man find a lamp with a genie and grants the man a wish. The man takes his wish and says:

"I wish the to be no guns or tanks or bombs or missles in the world so there would be peace and no wars"


the wish is granted and "poof" all of these weapons are gone!!

What is the effect??

please answer people.......

there'd be knives, and swords, and spears, and arrows.

Someone would invent a weapon that was not described in the wish, or the wish was for a moment, and making more would ensue.

Human nature I think, to become corrupt and want control.

Originally posted by REASON
Would this work or Not? that is the quiestion.


A man find a lamp with a genie and grants the man a wish. The man takes his wish and says:

"I wish the to be no guns or tanks or bombs or missles in the world so there would be peace and no wars"


the wish is granted and "poof" all of these weapons are gone!!

What is the effect??

please answer people.......

the Immediate effect would be instant peace throughout the world and eventually our "graphing fuction of peace" would level off and be right back to where we were.

they say...." Necessity is the Mother of Invention"

Necessity= need for a new killing tool

Invention= right around the corner


We would just stone each other to death.

Imagine someone robbing a bank with a stone.

Originally posted by clearmind
.guns in the hands of the american population is probably what has kept your freedoms from being taken in just one presidency.........so the govt is taking the slow road....

Excuse me while I roll around on the floor laughing at that comment.

Guns sure didn't stop bush stealing the presedency, or stop the multinationals screwing things up, or even help those renegade armed militia hiding in the boondocks.

and they won't help you either.

Funny how other countires manage to protect their freedoms through an open and working democracy .... is that what america really needs?

[Edited on 17-2-2004 by Netchicken]

..... and knives, and swords, and spears, and arrows....


They worked for hundreds of years, no reason they still won't work.

"Guns sure didn't stop bush stealing the presedency"

or maybe that's why he got there. Remember, it's typically conservatives who have more guns.


...cept for Rosie O'donnell's bodygaurds. They have guns.

Originally posted by Netchicken
Funny how other countires manage to protect their freedoms through an open and working democracy .... is that what america really needs?
[Edited on 17-2-2004 by Netchicken]

Curious NC, what other countries, for comparison sake?


Yes so a couple of presidents screw up, population sentiment has swayed, just not near far enough to bring rise to the emotion necessary for action or outrage.

I'm sorry Reason but just because you consider the American system to be a "world model" doesn't mean that others do. Who promotes the American system? Why the Americans of course....

Originally posted by REASON

So why isnt croatia, mexico, slovenia, peru, Israel or any others considered the world model for democracy if they are far superior than our system?

[Edited on 17-2-2004 by REASON]

*gulp!*

Well thats quite a list, and difficult to isolate them for discussion.

But many of them I recognise as having not been democracies for a reasonable length of time for an accurate comparison.

And several of them are not true democracies.

And many of them are so small that it would be considerably easier to become US dollarized (dont laugh) not having to be the worlds financial infrastructure, and do not have to address 350,000,000 people and their issues.

(please dont ask me to itemize, it would take all week to go thru that list..


But several I could point out, such as Bulgaria, that were recently communist, and now are so new on the other side, I doubt that they have had ample time to address the real issues of calling themselves a democracy, nor having yet met the difficulties of being one.

Originally posted by Netchicken

Excuse me while I roll around on the floor laughing at that comment.

Guns sure didn't stop bush stealing the presedency,

Now I'm rolling on the floor myself. That's because liberals like you who hate bush don't own guns.

Really though that's not what guns are for, it's when things get bad - not just when you don't like they way things are going like when you lost an election 3 times in a few weeks & still are not happy.

Although we are moving closer to that thanks to the Patriot Act , we are not even close to having to take Arms against our government. It's when the rest of are rights & freedoms are taken away that guns become a necessary tool to take them back.

Originally posted by Netchicken
and they won't help you either.

The argument that you'll lose the fight anyway gun or not so you might as well comply with your rulers and bend over doesn't work for me.


Currently though many of us prefer to protect ourselves, our properties, & our familys from less severe problems like those who wish to harm or steal from us. Robbers, theives & rapist prefer liberal households, because they offer little or no resistance. I support your right the let them do as they please to you & your family - don't tread on my right to protect mine.

Originally posted by Netchicken
Funny how other countires manage to protect their freedoms through an open and working democracy .... is that what america really needs?



I'm happy with my country & if I wasn't I have the means to go elsewhere.


[Edited on 19-2-2004 by outsider]

Originally posted by mouko_ryuu

"Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
-Sara Brady, Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum. The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.

Then kill her ( and all her little socialist friends in the same time ) FIRST.