Illegal Immigrant Kills 4 Children

Originally posted by centurion1211

And yes, there was even a (quickly debunked) thread on ATS supposedly showing that illegals create less crime than citizens. Check out the post by kattraxx to crush that argument of yours as well.

Maybe you should check out this snopes article on most of those statistics. I'm sure more have been added since, so it may take snopes a little while to catch up.
www.snopes.com...

I'm not surprised the city journal reported this nonsense without checking it's stats either. They're too conservative for facts anyway.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Great. Another one. My logic is not flawed since I seem to be one of the few actually using logic here.

i've yet to actual see logical validity...

I'm also living in the real world. The one where these kids were klled and hurt by an illegal that should not have been here.

i'm living in a world where their deaths could have been prevented if he had been able to get into this country though a legitimate method instead of being barred by an outright racist immigration system...
that way, he would have had to acquire a legal license, the preparation for which would have probably prevented that

now, should we blame any death caused by a legal immigrant on legal immigration?
your reasoning kind of extends to that as well

The real world where they would still be alive if the illegal had not come here.

actually, that's not necessarily true. you're assuming that something else wouldn't have killed them...
and it's odd that we're not analyzing the situation in which they died.
you're completely ruling out the possibility that the van collided with the bus due to an error on the bus driver's part or that responsibility was equally shared.

Not your fantasy world where giving away drivers licenses and other rights and privileges to people that have not earned them and don't deserve them is seen as "the answer".

rights are inalienable. nobody "deserves" rights, we're ENTITLED to rights
and i'm not talking about giving them away, i specifically said earning them. if the driver of the van was at fault, proper training would have prevented the collision.

does being logical now mean that you completely ignore facts and the arguments against you to boost the appearances of your rhetoric?

And I don't care how sorry you feel for this "poor illegal" and whatever caused them to to break our laws and then kill and injure our kids.

now you're lumping all of them into one group?
wow, you're really lacking logic
1 van collision and now all illegals are killing our kids, despite evidence to the contrary that they aren't as criminal as you'd have us believe

Again, where is your sympathy for the people that really deserve it?

it's right out in the open
i sympathize for:
the dead children and injured children
their families
the immigrant
and the immigrant's family

all 4 groups deserve sympathy here.
i'm trying to find a solution that would solve EVERYONE'S problems instead of being an isolationist.

Flawed logic ...

you're right, i was wrong
you actually have a logic deficit

Here is the statistic that NEEDS NO PROOF:

100 % OF ILLEGALS COMMIT CRIMES.

What part of ILLEGAL do those that doubt this, not understand?

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
Here is the statistic that NEEDS NO PROOF:

100 % OF ILLEGALS COMMIT CRIMES.

What part of ILLEGAL do those that doubt this, not understand?

Out of curiosity, where have you read otherwise in this thread?

Originally posted by centurion1211
This really a horrific story and just one example of the problems caused by people that should not even be in this country.

Gosh, it just makes me SO mad at everyone that ran everthing the past 7 years. You too I'm sure.

reply to post by Rasobasi420

Page 1 of this thread- the moderator said:

more legal citizens kill people in this nation on a daily basis than illegals. perhaps we should toss the citizens and let the illegals have a go at it instead.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


And at no point in that statement did the poster say anything about illegal immigrants not committing the crime of entering the country illegally. They just said they commit less murders.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
Here is the statistic that NEEDS NO PROOF:

100 % OF ILLEGALS COMMIT CRIMES.

What part of ILLEGAL do those that doubt this, not understand?

yes, we realize that...but it's a victimless crime

there's no evidence to show that they commit other crimes at higher rates than citizens or immigrants with legal status

reply to post by Rasobasi420

Saying that a group of 20 million people kill less than a group of 300 million is comparing apples to oranges. What would be more meaningful, is a statistic that says that your group of model illegals kill less per unit, than those "wicked' legal citizens kill per unit.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Like this one?
www.reuters.com...

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Immigrants are far less likely than the average U.S.-born citizen to commit crime in California, the most populous state in the United States, according to a report issued late on Monday.

People born outside the United States make up about 35 percent of California's adult population but account for about 17 percent of the adult prison population, the report by the Public Policy Institute of California showed.

According to the report's authors the findings suggest that long-standing fears of immigration as a threat to public safety are unjustified. The report also noted that U.S.-born adult men are incarcerated at a rate more than 2 1/2 times greater than that of foreign-born men.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by Rasobasi420]

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

Oh, I see, YOU decide what crimes to include in the statistics, and YOU have decided that it is a "victim-less" crime. Well, I beg to differ. There are 300,000,000 victims of these ILLEGAL immigrants, the 300,000,000 of us that have to PAY for those people to live off of our hard-earned taxes that we pay, and that includes as victims, those of us that are LEGAL immigrants, and pay our taxes, and OBEY the law- ALL the laws of this country.

Let's say you get your way, and allow anyone that wants to come into this country illegally. At some point, there are as many of them, as there are of us. So lets say you're in the 25% federal tax bracket, add another 15.3% for both halves of FICA(your half and the employers half- which if you're self employed-is you), 6% for state, and maybe a couple of % for local income tax. That works out to about 50%. Now to pay for the 300,000,000 freeloaders(yes, that's what they are), your taxes now are 100%. You work all year for NOTHING, just to pay for these freeloaders.

Get real. These people are CRIMINALS, by every definition of the word. They don't deserve to be just deported, but detained, tried, convicted, and forced to pay restitution to this country for the harm that they have committed against the United States and its people. PERIOD.
Have a nice day.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
Let's say you get your way, and allow anyone that wants to come into this country illegally. At some point, there are as many of them, as there are of us. So lets say you're in the 25% federal tax bracket, add another 15.3% for both halves of FICA(your half and the employers half- which if you're self employed-is you), 6% for state, and maybe a couple of % for local income tax. That works out to about 50%. Now to pay for the 300,000,000 freeloaders(yes, that's what they are), your taxes now are 100%. You work all year for NOTHING, just to pay for these freeloaders.

That's 'funny' math if I ever saw it...

reply to post by Rasobasi420

Actually, if you read the article, it says that illegals comprise a smaller percentage of the prison population. That is understandable, since they live in an underground network, and are protected by fellow illegals. They hop back across the border, when pursued, and our agents and police are not allowed to follow them. In fact, recent articles state the that Mexican "police" are actually assisting the illegals at the border.
Ah, yes, NAFTA, what a boon that has been to the US and our economy. The "free" flow of goods back and forth between the US and Mexico, only the goods that they meant were illegals in carved out niches in cars, trucks and wagons.
By the way, the article is posted from San Franscico, a "sanctuary" city.

Again, since, 100% of illegals commit crimes (that is the definition of ILLEGAL), the article's claim would only be true, if 101% of legal citizens committed crimes.

reply to post by Rasobasi420


Oh really, tell me where it is wrong. Those figures are the average for the median income of a family in the United States. If the budget doubles, then the tax burden doubles, unless you want to double our ridiculous national debt from over 9 trillion dollars to 18 trillion.

Oh, but I forgot, you won't have to worry about it, only your children and grandchildren.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


I think you know what is meant by smaller percentage of crime. That means crime that matters, like assault, robbery, murder and such. Victimless crimes, like illegally entering the US, jaywalking, drug use and panhandling don't really count.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


My kids won't need to worry if the government were to wise up to its spending habits. Reduce military expenditures and salaries for politicians. Promote economic growth in Mexico though investments in Mexican based companies, and so on. Can you imagine the benefit in having first world nations to the north and south of the US?

reply to post by Rasobasi420

I guess you didn't read my post above, about "victim-less crimes".

Here is a link:
www.fairus.org...
and here is an except from it.

Illegal Immigration Is Not A Victimless Crime
Apologists for illegal immigration try to paint it as a victimless crime, but the fact is that illegal immigration causes substantial harm to American citizens and legal immigrants, particularly those in the most vulnerable sectors of our population — the poor, minorities, and children.

Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not begin to cover the cost of services received by them. The quality of education, health care and other services for Americans are undermined by the needs of endless numbers of poor, unskilled illegal entrants.

Additionally, job competition by waves of illegal immigrants desperate for any job unfairly depresses the wages and working conditions offered to American workers, hitting hardest at minority workers and those without high school degrees.