Illegal Immigrant Kills 4 Children, page 2
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reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 01:39 PM by Rasobasi420
Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Ahh, no it is not flawed. It's the friggin truth. You just don't want to face it. If they weren't here, there would not be this story. Truth. Plain and simple.


This thread is ripe with logical fallacies. For example

Misleading vividness
www.nizkor.org...
Misleading Vividness is a fallacy in which a very small number of particularly dramatic events are taken to outweigh a significant amount of statistical evidence. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

1. Dramatic or vivid event X occurs (and is not in accord with the majority of the statistical evidence) .
2. Therefore events of type X are likely to occur.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because the mere fact that an event is particularly vivid or dramatic does not make the event more likely to occur, especially in the face of significant statistical evidence.


Questionable Cause
www.nizkor.org...
1. A and B are associated on a regular basis.
2. Therefore A is the cause of B.

The general idea behind this fallacy is that it is an error in reasoning to conclude that one thing causes another simply because the two are associated on a regular basis. More formally, this fallacy is committed when it is concluded that A is the cause of B simply because they are associated on a regular basis. The error being made is that a causal conclusion is being drawn from inadequate evidence.


Division
www.nizkor.org...
The fallacy of Division is committed when a person infers that what is true of a whole must also be true of its constituents and justification for that inference is not provided.

There are two main variants of the general fallacy of Division:

The first type of fallacy of Division is committed when 1) a person reasons that what is true of the whole must also be true of the parts and 2) the person fails to justify that inference with the required degree of evidence. More formally, the "reasoning" follows this sort of pattern:

1. The whole, X, has properties A, B, C, etc.
2. Therefore the parts of X have properties A, B, C, etc.

That this line of reasoning is fallacious is made clear by the following case: 4 is an even number. 1 and 3 are parts of 4. Therefore 1 and 3 are even.


Biased Sample
www.nizkor.org...
Also Known as: Biased Statistics, Loaded Sample, Prejudiced Statistics, Prejudiced Sample, Loaded Statistics, Biased Induction, Biased Generalization
Description of Biased Sample

This fallacy is committed when a person draws a conclusion about a population based on a sample that is biased or prejudiced in some manner. It has the following form:

1. Sample S, which is biased, is taken from population P.
2. Conclusion C is drawn about Population P based on S.

The person committing the fallacy is misusing the following type of reasoning, which is known variously as Inductive Generalization, Generalization, and Statistical Generalization:

1. X% of all observed A's are B''s.
2. Therefore X% of all A's are Bs.

The fallacy is committed when the sample of A's is likely to be biased in some manner. A sample is biased or loaded when the method used to take the sample is likely to result in a sample that does not adequately represent the population from which it is drawn.


There are others, but I've only got time for a few right now.


reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 01:47 PM by Rasobasi420
reply to post by centurion1211



You make it sound as if I'm saying we need to invade Mexico. That's just silly my friend.

I'm saying that if Mexico's economy is failing, it will have an impact on us (although not as heavily as many people claim) so we should work with Mexico to fix their economic issues.

It may be difficult for a Centurion to understand, but not all problems can be fixed through military, police, or violent action.


reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 01:59 PM by marg6043
reply to post by Rasobasi420


The problem in Mexico is the governments they have through the years and Corporate America, when you have governments sucking out the wealth of a nation for the benefit of personal coffers and forget that the people is in need then that is a problem, then it comes corporate America to take advantage of the illegals in American giving the rest of the poor and needy population in Mexico incentives to come to the US.


reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 02:18 PM by TrueAmerican
reply to post by Rasobasi420



I appreciate your effort, Raso. No really, I do.

But here is the thought process in my mind, and please tell me where I am wrong.

Fact 1: I base my argument on legal versus illegal.

Fact 2: Crossing the border without proper authority is illegal.

Fact 3: Once that threshold is crossed, it is reasonable to ascertain that if that threshold had not been crossed, further actions after that point would not have occurred, had the threshold not been crossed.

Fact 4: This illegal immigrant crossed the border illegally.

Fact 5: He killed 4 people and injured 14 more, whether accidentally or intentionally.

Fact 6: The families of the victims have no real legal recourse against someone who is destitute, with no insurance, and who may not even be sent back to Mexico. They've just got to take it on the chin.

Fact 7: Had the illegal immigrant not crossed the border, little brother Joey or sister Sue would still be alive, smiling, and living their rightful existence. It is worse than sad.

Fact 8: The injured are going to suffer. In some cases for the rest of their lives. Again, without much legal recourse or reimbursement for either their suffering or medical bills, unless their own insurance covers them- which they themselves, or their employer have to pay for.

Fact 9: Left in this terrible situation, I would not fault the family for tracking down that illegal and killing him under justifiable homicide charges. And I can tell you this- if it was my brother that happened to, I wouldn't be writing this post because I'd be in jail right now awaiting charges on the termination of the life of a criminal.

Fact 10: The illegal initiated all this by crossing the border

ILLEGALLY

It's not a moral issue. It is not a racist issue. It is not an ethnic issue. It is a legal issue. And no I would not have the same attitude towards anyone in this country here legally if an accident occurred. Accidents happen. Crossing the border illegally is no accident. It is a crime which leads us into a whole host of other issues that need not be. Just simply if the law was respected.
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