Soldier Jailed for Avoiding Iraq War

reply to post by ThichHeaded


He REFUSED because his explanation is seeing innocent people getting killed and blown. He tells his story of children getting killed by car bombs.

"I saw a mother and her infant child get killed in crossfire. I saw children lose their limbs in a car bomb. One boy lost an arm and another lost both legs," he said.

"I could not live with myself if I killed another person," he said.

What is the military for again? Welfare?

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


I guess we do not agree with the point of view here and neither the issues regarding our nation and how corrupted is our political system.

You are a patriot Grady and for that I will not argue with you, but I also consider myself one.

Peace and love my friend.

At the same time, What happened to " by the people for the people"?


I mean Iraq didnt blow up the twin towers...... Sadam didnt boast about doing 9/11.. but we are there...we have troops doing more then just their job now, my best bud / Piss mate ( shared a bathroom with him for 3 years ) he is Nav com for the army, well now hes Armory manager, 1st gunner for his sergant on a 50 cal while doing night patrols with the ANTI IED squad, What part of stretched thin doesnt this Government understand?

And What good is a soilder who is questioning the war to go an fight in it? Is he going to preform to the Code of the US Military if he doesnt feel they are living up to the Code of Life? Yes this is a War, But as more an more months past by, its seeming more like a War against people who dont live there an never have. I mean Iraq has turned into a Training ground for anyone who wants to fight the American Machine.

With the loss of Life so high, on both sides, are we really going to have a end to this war? we seem to only be stretghening the opposing forces by creating more Vengence and Anger. We went to Iraq becuz of a Dictator had to much power an control ina land that was too close to our Addictive Substance. And We wanted to have better control over that.

Even my good friend over there an his buddies are not happy an not sure about this occupation.

If someone is stating they are troubled over what they see over there whos right is it really then to make him go back an see some more things that will trouble him for the rest of his life...

How many people here have seen someone die? I dont mean peacfuly either.... I mean Straight up Dead at the moment you saw it. Ive seen people hit by cars, alot of car accidents really burnt alive, shot in the head, an these were things i saw either as they happened or right after the fact. Its very distrubing, I still have dreams where I see their bodies or faces, Specialy the women I saw get hit by a truck, there was a pool of blood around her head 3 feet in radius, We tried to revive her but she had lost too much blood an had too hard a head to the head both from the truck an the ground.

These things in life just can seriously change your way ot thinking an acting, and I think our goverment needs to start paying more attention to Honorable folks who A) serverd in the Military and
B) went for a 1st TDY over there.
Its not like he did this on his 1st term it was his second, what about the Gulf war an all that PTS disorders that were at such a high rate an the chems that alot of our soilders endured during that fight.

America Needs to be more for the People by the people.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott



Given that he could have been given a death sentence.....he probably got off easy...

885. ART. 85. DESERTION

(c) TextAny person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.


emphasis added.

Uniform Code of Military Justice

reply to post by _Phoenix_


It's not the person that gets respect. It's the position. I may have utter contempt for some Senior NCO or Officer, but I have to respect their rank. The only time I can disregard their order is if they give me an unlawful order, otherwise I'm duty bound to obey them(even if it's a stupid order).

reply to post by deltaboy



Perhaps you can enlighten us on what is the military for specially in Iraq, please tell us what is the agenda in Iraq and the reason for war.

I will be waiting.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


You're right about the leniency of the sentence. This is also an example to those claiming the military executes people that don't follow orders, that such notions are simply not the case.

reply to post by Trance Optic


He had a choice to not re-enlist.

Im not sure why some people are ignoring this fact. He was IN IRAQ - and re-enlisted while IN IRAQ.

Anyone who goes to Iraq knows there is a chance they might go back. It is not NEW news for anyone who has been there.

So again, why is the military to blame in any of this?

This is not about whether we should be there or not. It is about a man who chose to remain in the military and chose to break is contract.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

The job of the military is to protect our nation from foreign invasions.

if one day this comes to happen even I will fight to the death for this nation volunteers will be in abundance

What the military is right now is nothing more than a feeding machine for the private military complex to suck the blood of our soliders and money out of the people of this nation.

The job of the military is to protect the US from enemies foreign and domestic, and to protect US interests wherever they may be.

reply to post by DancedWithWolves


Remember that guy who went to North Korea, Charles Jenkins? They gave him 30 days of confinement and dishonorable discharge after being gone since the 1960s, WTF????

I think both sides here went about it the wrong way.

Spc. Stewart seems to me by the comments of the article to be experiencing PTSD, he is not saying anything against the Army or the U.S., for what can interpret he is just afraid and tired of war.

The army should have treat him for that send him to get some mental evaluations and then decide if Stewart is fit for duty. Of course everyone knows how horrible is the Army at taking care of people with this conditions.

Spc. Stewart I don't know if he asked or not for treatment for PTSD but if he didn't then is the Army responsability to do so. Again that just what I can say by reading the article.

reply to post by marg6043


Elimination of the Saddam regime and the stability of Iraq. The military has no intention of killing everyone there. Thats not their objective.

Man I have seen so many people alot of e-1s Directly Disobey orders from NCOs and Senior NCOs they get LoRs or LoCs, Deduction in Pay, and maybe if i can be their rank reduced, heavier charges will land you in Levenworth, But you need to be a terrorist an even then you most likely will goto trial an paraded thru media pools before you get the death sentence,

If Our military Killed soilders who disobeyed Orders we wouldnt have a military anymore. They get jail time over all, but they try an keep it with Locs Lors, Pay deduction or rank, with Jailtime being Last but not least.

I mean Ive seen my fellow soilders arrested for Selling E on BAse! as well as his people he got in trouble with sentenced to jailtime for running Prositution rings on base.

I would reenlist too seeing how they wave that 26,000.00 USD in your face or prolly more now a days, But people reenlist for a few reasons but the number one being Money... Our military flashes so much cash at you an promises out the whaaazing to re enlist its no wonder,

Reguardless, if he stated what was mentioned at the 1st post here, then he was entitled to evaluation an proper medical care.

So if Drugs and Selling women for sex doesnt get you killed Not wanting to Goto Iraq for a second term after youve witness Hell and carnage better only get you six months..... Anything further would be deemed BS by mass majority.



[edit on 22-2-2008 by Trance Optic]

reply to post by Trance Optic


Germany, Italy, Korea, and Vietnam didn't invade or attack the US either.
If one only believes that the land mass of the USA, or their personal safety is worth defending, that's a pretty sorry definition of patriotism or loyalty. If on the otherhand one believes in the greatness of the USA, what it stands for/what it's ideals are(democracy and freedom for all), our way of life, and that its interests CONUS or OCONUS are worth defending, that to me is a better definition.

reply to post by deltaboy


Sure my friend they just happen to be in the fire line. Nice to read from the book.

BTW he will be put in jail, them tag with mental problems and at the end he will be striped from his right to arm.

Got to love the regime of the present administration.

reply to post by deltaboy


I read somewhere that if was for WMD's , at least that what I read.

reply to post by deltaboy


I'm just glad that the military is choosing right now to ignore the "shall" in the code and recognizing the "or". I find it interesting that the word shall is used rather than the word may. In legal terms...the use of the word shall doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room generally speaking.

Glad we are in the "or" world.

I was not aware of this code. I need to do a little more digging but, there was also reference to "time of emergency" also qualifying for this verdict....

And something tells me we will NOT emotionally and physically support our troops when they return proportional to the "terrors" they have witnessed. That is an outrage.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by DancedWithWolves

 

As a soldier, I understand that a breakdown in discipline and deriliction of duty is unacceptable. When you VOLUNTEER for service, you don't agree to serve until such point that you don't FEEL like serving any more.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

Don't join the military then, if you are unable to abide by a contract that you voluntarily agreed to.

apparently the both of you are unaware of something called the conscientious objector. Please read:

en.wikipedia.org...

conscientious objector (CO) is an individual following the religious, moral or ethical dictates of his or her conscience that are incompatible with being a combatant in military service, or being part of the armed forces as a combatant organization. In the first case, conscientious objectors may be willing to accept non-combatant roles during conscription or military service.

Ironically, if you apply for the CO when enlisted, you will probably wish you hadn't, although it may get you out of combat.

Anyone who sits there saying "well, you shouldn't have joined then!" is being extremely ignorant. Sometimes its much easier to shut someone out with a quick one-liner, than to actually take the time to understand how these scenarios evolve into complex situations.

"Germany, Italy, Korea, and Vietnam didn't invade or attack the US either.
If one only believes that the land mass of the USA, or their personal safety is worth defending, that's a pretty sorry definition of patriotism or loyalty. If on the otherhand one believes in the greatness of the USA, what it stands for/what it's ideals are(democracy and freedom for all), our way of life, and that its interests CONUS or OCONUS are worth defending, that to me is a better definition. "


1st off this isnt a World war, this is a Super power Occuping questionably a Nation with special intrests to america. Germany Italy was during world wars, Korea was a issue with Borders and North and South Concerns and Issues, Vietnam was well.... Pretty Cloudy for everyone.

Iraq well, Iraq has a Dictator, Like Venezuela, Cuba, Korea, and Iran ( although Iran is a trickier situation then to just say its a dictator ) But Im saying we are killing AMERICANS for the situation in Iraq that if we were to not go over there, Simply our americans WOULDNT of DIED!

its So simple, Im a Patriot who believes in DEFENDING AMERICANS, Becuz that is what AMERICA was founded apon, Protecting Our FREEDOMS, and Our RIGHTS to be FREE and Live a LIFE we wanted within reason, Im celebrating My FREEDOMs by stating an voicing My OPINONS about this matter an plenty of other matters.

Am I not a Patriot becuz I think Iraq is a waste of time?

Please explain how IRAQ was impeeding on Our FREEDOMs and Our RIGHTs? thus forcing response for 9/11.

Shouldnt we be ISO the perps of 9/11 and Not trying to rebuild a country right now? it seems more like a Short sighted way to Rebuild USA economy, or at least someones pockets, becuz America has just suffered from this war economicly.


I mean Really Im ex Military I gave 4 years of my life to this country AM i not a Patriot?

America Is america, we faught for america, against england for our Freedom, Yes we need to demand freedom for all else who want it, but at the same time, we need to be reasonable with our own Lives that are HERE on this SOIL that We FAUGHT for those freedoms. Then we can worry about others,

Gotta focus on your home before remodeling your neighbors.

reply to post by Trance Optic


I'm not saying that you're not patriotic. I am saying I am skeptical of those who think that the military should only be used to fight on US soil, once we've been invaded, and that our interests abroad aren't worth defending.