Soldier Jailed for Avoiding Iraq War, page 1

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Topic started on 22-2-2008 @ 12:15 PM by DancedWithWolves

Soldier Jailed for Avoiding Iraq War

www.presstv.ir

A US soldier is sentenced to serve six months in prison because he refused to be deployed to Iraq 'killing innocent human beings'.

Stewart told the court that he refused to deploy because of what he experienced during his last deployment to Mosul, Iraq, from 2004 to 2005.

"I saw a mother and her infant child get killed in crossfire. I saw children lose their limbs in a car bomb. One boy lost an arm and another lost both legs," he said.

(visit the link for the full news article)

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:15 PM by DancedWithWolves

This is sad on so many levels. With troop suicides at one end and duty to country at the other end of this debate. Unfortunately, we are going to see more of our soldiers coming home with these type of memories. Not everyone may be emotionally equipped to "handle" this type of violent reality. Thoughts?

www.presstv.ir
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 22-2-2008 by DancedWithWolves]

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:26 PM by BlueRaja

reply to post by DancedWithWolves

As a soldier, I understand that a breakdown in discipline and deriliction of duty is unacceptable. When you VOLUNTEER for service, you don't agree to serve until such point that you don't FEEL like serving any more.

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:33 PM by ThichHeaded

Originally posted by BlueRaja
When you VOLUNTEER for service, you don't agree to serve until such point that you don't FEEL like serving any more.

Ya but its ironic you defend this war based on lies.. On top of that.. Iraq was never a threat to the United States at all.

THis guy has every right not to wanna go there, considering we are there illegally.. As in we are the aggressors, not defenders.

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:34 PM by BlueRaja

reply to post by ThichHeaded

There's a difference between not wanting to do something, and what I said.
The military cannot function if everyone gets to decide when they will or won't obey.

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:39 PM by ATruGod

Thats the great thing about Volunteering for service, the first thing they do after your a volunteer is strip you of your rights as a citizen. Then you don't have a say anymore because you don't have any rights.

This war was never about defending America plain and simple.

If soldiers feel they are being put in a situation that is unethical or plain and simple UnHuman they should resist.

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:40 PM by ThichHeaded

reply to post by BlueRaja

Ya if it was legit but this war is not.

Therefor it don't bind by our constitution, Therefor by all rights, everyone there can literally walk..

I don't see nothing binding us to Iraq besides Bush and Cheney raping the hell out of our economy.

Don't believe me go research how good our economy is doing.

[edit on 2/22/2008 by ThichHeaded]

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:40 PM by DancedWithWolves

reply to post by BlueRaja

As a soldier then, could you clarify what the "out" clause on a particular deployment is in the military? I'm not sure of the details but, I was under the impression that if a soldier went to the military clergy and said they "could not" serve in this specific combat capacity anymore, then other duties could be assigned. If that is true, I wonder why this was not the case here? Have you heard of this?

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:42 PM by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by ThichHeaded

There's a difference between not wanting to do something, and what I said.
The military cannot function if everyone gets to decide when they will or won't obey.

So he has no free will!!!? That is pathetic! Think about it.

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:46 PM by bigbert81

reply to post by _Phoenix_

Actually, for the first time here on ATS, I'm going to side with BlueRaja here.

No. The answer to your question is no. Once you sign up for the military, it's go to war when they tell you, or face consequences. So no, he does no longer have free will.

Think about it.

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:48 PM by BlueRaja

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by ThichHeaded

There's a difference between not wanting to do something, and what I said.
The military cannot function if everyone gets to decide when they will or won't obey.

So he has no free will!!!? That is pathetic! Think about it.

When you volunteer to serve in the Military, you know that you may be asked to do things you don't want to do(i.e. get hurt or killed, be cold, sore, hungry, tired, spend a lot of time away from family and friends, work long hours, have an unpredictable schedule, etc....). There's no clause in your contract that says you only have to do things that you want to do. You do however swear to obey the orders of those in charge of you, for the duration of your contract. That is what's known as duty, and doing what you say you will do, is what's known as integrity.

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:49 PM by ThichHeaded

reply to post by bigbert81

NO you are wrong again..

We are supposed to follow the constitution when we go to war, which we didn't. By right, that guy and every other person in the military can tell bush to screw off..

The war is not binding by the constitution therefor its illegal, plain and simple.

You guys who go to the military are sworn to uphold the constitution... really simple 1st grade English right there.

Just for safe sake, Prove to me this war is legit. Then I will shut up..

[edit on 2/22/2008 by ThichHeaded]

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:51 PM by BlueRaja

Originally posted by DancedWithWolves
reply to post by BlueRaja

As a soldier then, could you clarify what the "out" clause on a particular deployment is in the military? I'm not sure of the details but, I was under the impression that if a soldier went to the military clergy and said they "could not" serve in this specific combat capacity anymore, then other duties could be assigned. If that is true, I wonder why this was not the case here? Have you heard of this?

I think you're referring to Conscientious Objector status. If one legitimately qualifies, they can be reassigned to non-combatant roles. You can't however just claim it, if you're told to do something and you decide that you don't want to.

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:51 PM by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by _Phoenix_

Actually, for the first time here on ATS, I'm going to side with BlueRaja here.

No. The answer to your question is no. Once you sign up for the military, it's go to war when they tell you, or face consequences. So no, he does no longer have free will.

Think about it.

Well guess what I would say to that, I would say f that!

I would follow my heart and my OWN decisions on what I would do.

I wouldn't care about any agreements I made, if for some reason I change my mind, if I thought that being there was wrong, I would leave, I would follow what I feel is right, not some old men sitting down in the white house.

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:54 PM by BlueRaja

reply to post by ThichHeaded

You are the one who is incorrect. There is nothing in the enlistment contract that gives individual soldiers the ability to decide the constitutionality of war/orders. If you are still unable to comply due to a matter of conscience, then you will have to face the consequences.

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:55 PM by BlueRaja

reply to post by _Phoenix_

Don't join the military then, if you are unable to abide by a contract that you voluntarily agreed to.

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 12:58 PM by BlueRaja

To help clarify- here is the enlistment oath.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

This is the take away here- "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 01:00 PM by ThichHeaded

Originally posted by BlueRaja
There is nothing in the enlistment contract that gives individual soldiers the ability to decide the constitutionality of war/orders.

Whats the gig..

I will swear to uphold the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic...

Where are the foreign or domestic enemies in Iraq again..

Ya I heard the bin laden thing, and Al-Qaeda and crap, but then you have to admit Saddam was behind 9/11 as much as Bin Laden was.

YA SEE!!! Its illegal Its not constitutional and He has every right to not go.

::EDIT::

reply to post by BlueRaja

This 1st line says that you have to follow the constitution, therefor bushs war is illegal and unjust..

Its people like you who made innocent people dying a good thing..

[edit on 2/22/2008 by ThichHeaded]

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 01:02 PM by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by _Phoenix_

Don't join the military then, if you are unable to abide by a contract that you voluntarily agreed to.

A contract I would agree to only if I felt what I was doing was RIGHT! GOOD! RESPECTFUL! for the greater GOOD. To HELP.

If I at any time I would feel that what I am doing is against what I feel is right. Then of course I would stop, because I would be doing what is RIGHT. I don't care about any writing on a paper, I'm talking about what is right.

If what I end up doing feels wrong and bad, then that contract is then finished, because I signed that contract for what I felt was right not wrong.

[edit on 22-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

reply posted on 22-2-2008 @ 01:04 PM by BlueRaja

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by _Phoenix_

Don't join the military then, if you are unable to abide by a contract that you voluntarily agreed to.

a contract I would agree to only if I felt what I was doing was RIGHT! GOOD! RESPECTFUL! for the greater GOOD. To HELP.

If I at any time I would feel that what I am doing is against what I feel is right. Then ofcourse I would stop, because I would be doing what is RIGHT. I don't care about any writing on a paper, I'm talking about what is right.

Like I said, don't join if you can't be counted on to fulfill obligations that you volutarily agreed to. There's no subjectivity involved in enlistment into the military.

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