Subprime Is Really SubCRIME: America's Deeper Financial Crisis

Yet another article I have found that expresses the same feelings I do about our current economic situation. why are people not waking up to this and getting pissed about what is happening? It seems as though it isn't really being discussed and no new options for a way out are being talked about. As this article states, the media is not reporting on what the actual problem is....crimes on Wall Street. two quotes from this article are interesting. the first actually comes form the Baltimore Sun and gives insight as to public perception of the current economy.

"Since January alone, the public's perception about the state of the economy has plummeted -- with just 17 percent calling the nation's economy excellent or good -- down from 26 percent last month. The percentage rating the economy poor has grown from 28 to 45 percent."

People are noticing, but not much is being said to turn things around. What are we going to do, continue this freefall into economic demise?

The media is not investigating the profiteers and, in fact, continues to contribute to the problem by accepting millions for dubious ads for more loans that end up getting more Americans in debt. Prosecutors are not prosecuting wrong doing. No fundamental new regulations and oversight are being proposed.

As usual, the media is no help to the situation. They sit comfortably behind their desks with their teleprompters telling them exactly what to say. Boy, that Rupert Murdoch sure knows how to sell his agenda doesn't he? Keep those "Refinance with us", and "don't worry, we can help you get out of debt" ads rolling. Oh, and when depression sets in when you realize that the loan you just got to get out of debt actually puts you in debt further, we have a pill for that. Just listen to this 2 minute ad with all of its side affects, call your doc and you will be ok. What a croc!!!
The fact that Bank of America states that the credit crisis has us in the loss column for 7.7 TRILLION should be enough for people to shake in their boots. Although, personally, I believe BofA to be behind a lot of elite's agendas. They continue to swoop in and buy up garbage loans. It is all about control.
I can't believe I am saying this, but I actually agree with Basil Williams when he says:

"The costs can be recouped by going after those who profited handsomely and unfairly from the multitude of transactions that touched the industry, including:
Mortgage brokers who originated loans to those who didn't understand the conditions, couldn't afford them and should not have qualified.
Appraisers who overvalued homes, knowing that the higher the value they gave a property, the more business they would reap from a dishonest broker.
Banks and brokerage firms that purchased, packaged and resold the mortgages for huge fees."

I never thought I would agree with a man who works for a hedge fund but hey, maybe they aren't all bad right?
So, when you are looking around your neighborhood and seeing all the foreclosure signs, remember this:

With millions facing foreclosure, we have to expose those responsible and mount a movement for economic justice. It can be done. It should be done. Who is ready to stand up and organize a national mobilization to stop this outrage? Who is ready to fund it?

We do need to make a stand against those that have raped this Great Country of its once economic superpower status and those who continue to get away with their lying, cheating, and stealing.
Here is a link to the full article by Danny Schechter from Alternet

[edit on 2/21/2008 by palehorse23]

Welcome to a predominant feature of our culture--- lawlessness.

Since it pervades our political system, we have no hope for accountability in the private sector. I suggest you pull up a chair....enjoy some popcorn...and watch the horror flick of our beloved nation's implosion.

I wonder if it will be nominated for an Oscar?



[edit on 21-2-2008 by loam]

reply to post by loam


It is a sad state isn't loam? I feel like I am completely settled in for the show. You know, I have 15 month old and he is who I really weep for. It almost makes me wish a huge "wipe the slate clean" event would happen just so he doesn't have to go through the worst of times that lie ahead of us.

[edit on 2/21/2008 by palehorse23]

It really is all about money. And the financial literature is more than a novel to wade through, even if you only want to read your bank statement. It's really a different language that many people are not functionally cognizent of...

Which is part of the reason why the rich keep getting richer and the poor don't seem to make anything.

Everyone wants money. We should understand what it can do. A good place to start is this:

Money can provide oppurtunity and prevent it as well, dependent on who has it and what they do with it.

reply to post by palehorse23


I too have a little one, and it's why I get so angry about the pathetic state we've placed our nation in. He deserves a better future than the one we are leaving him with.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
It really is all about money.

I respectfully disagree. It's like blaming the football for a referee's fix of the game.

There is simply no level playing field-- only what you can take and get away with...which apparently is a whole lot.


[edit on 21-2-2008 by loam]

Are you saying all those home buyers who tried to save a buck by getting more house than they could normally afford and then expected to turn around and resell it a couple of years later have no blame in this?

I believe there are many people at fault. I even had a discussion with someone several months ago about problems with easy money and zero interest loans. Too many people were trying to use real estate to make a fast buck. Home buyers and banks as well. The whole system works as long as the houses keep going up in price. When they don't, the stack of cards starts falling down. However this time I see the banks got crafty and resold the loans to other banks around the world. Who's going to be holding the most rotten turkey? We shall see. The cards are falling. Maybe it's Japan, maybe it's one large US bank. I read an article the other day suggesting the FDIC was getting ready to bail out a major US bank if the need arose. The article went on, for those with uninsured money, they "may get a haircut" I read somewhere I believe on Marketwatch.com

I certainly don't want to lose my retirement funds because of the stack of cards a lot of greedy people set up.


[edit on 21-2-2008 by orionthehunter]

reply to post by MemoryShock

And the financial literature is more than a novel to wade through, even if you only want to read your bank statement. It's really a different language that many people are not functionally cognizent of...

You certainly have got that right. No matter what bill you look at i.e. cell phone, utility, bank statement, they seem to be getting more and more confusing to the normal person. If you do not have a degree in finance or business, good luck. It only seems to be getting worse. i guess they figure if you can't understand it, you only have two options......Call and get just as confusing of an answer or just pay it and avoid any hassles. So far, the consumers are losing. All of the hidden fees, "security protection plans", etc, may not seem like much, but boy do they add up quick. Just more cash being taken away from us for things that are never going to be explained to us. These are just things that we deal with on a daily basis. One can only imagine what happens on the upper tiers of Wall Street, big banks, and major corporations. It is all mind numbing.

reply to post by orionthehunter


I have said this many times before. Fraud is fraud, wherever it may be found. But let's be clear where the lion's share of the blame rests...and this time, it ain't with consumers.

Triple Post...I signed on for another session..

You think I'm kidding!!

[edit on 21-2-2008 by MemoryShock]

Triple Post...the library is free! Not much of a social environment though..okay...my real post....

[edit on 21-2-2008 by MemoryShock]

I think that I may not have been entirely clear. It is all about the money, the amount of dedication to the intricate nature of how man interacts with man based on what can be obtained is centered on the many different thoghts people have regarding currency.

Some want it to be happy; pay bills and purchase luxury. Probably not inclusive of a comprehension of the history in fluctuation of the APR and the proper market reaction/response during peaks and valleys. Not just the stock market either.

Some want it for livlihood. Probably not inclusive of an understanding of a savings account in many cases (I could be a bit cynical in that assessment).

Some want it for livlihood. They work with it for other people and have developed a keen(er) awareness of the various applications and laws/loopholes of our society to increase the lilkihood of a larger return.

And etc....

Todays' society is based on the social image of what money can get for you. And what you have without it.

Try getting a date without a decent job, apartment, car, social status objects, etc. in Los Angeles.

It's all about the money. I sincerely believe that the reason I get any interest in what I have to say(which includes respectful disagreements...) is because I am sitting behind an anonymous screen.

Got to go...the library computer is going to cut me off...

reply to post by orionthehunter


I believe the bank you are referring too may be Citigroup. Although I am sure they are not the only ones. There are many that are going to be in trouble. B of A seems to be the big gun in all of this. At least on US soil. They are snagging up everything in sight it seems.
I do partly agree with you about home buyers being partly at fault. But, good deals are what people thrive on. As stated before, all of the jibberish in these "contracts" have people coming and going. It all sounds great, until you get nailed with all of those high fees and such that were hidden in the "foreign language" of mortgage contracts. It has always been the America Dream to own your own home and raise a family. That has gone by the way side. You are better off renting. There was a study done awhile back comparing the cost of renting versus home buying and when all was said and done, if I remember correctly, after all of the expenses incurred with a home, you actually save around a hundred thousand dollars over a ten year period if you rent.

reply to post by MemoryShock


Being in LA maybe you can answer me this. How in the hell do people do it out there? The housing prices are so outrageously high. Are the jobs paying that much more out there? Houses half the size of mine go for hundreds of thousands of dollars. how do people afford it. I can barely afford mine with a job paying 20 bucks an hour. My same job would have to pay me 50 bucks an hour out there to have a house half the size. and these house flippers....they all seem to be in California. Where do they get the money for a milion dollar mortgage? That has got to be the crappiest way to make money at this point and time.
Maybe that is why those type of shows have not been being seen as much on TV anymore. up until the last half of last year, they were on almost every channel it seemed.

Ya know what I just noticed? Next to my OP, there is an ad for the VA mortgage center.
Talk about irony........

[edit on 2/21/2008 by palehorse23]

reply to post by palehorse23



Some can do it, some can't. Includes alot of overtime in many cases. I lost a girlfriend(I was head over heels and she accounted for my ATS absence) in partial because she was interested in getting a house and the whole security shebang(her words) and I wasn't making enough. And I was working overtime, along weekends. And she worked the same hours!! The taste is mildly bitter...and I do acknowledge that I made mistakes. I let my concern for 'providing her with her expensive taste' overrule my capacity to be myself....

Houses are expensive out here. People work alot out here. It's tough and excuse my conceit, but I can talk circles around my boss and my bosses boss. Don't know what else to say....

....Please take note...this is probably the first time I have derailed a thread by discussing my personal life.....ouch....

Back to the topic...

reply to post by MemoryShock


LOL...At least you can admit to a derailing....

On topic....I still don't get it and maybe I never will. I work my tail off as well. One full time job, and two on call positions doing autopsies for hospitals and ME' office. And that would never get me even a 200K house. But, as was the cas a few years back, it was a heck of a lot easier to get a mortgage than it is now and will be in the future as long as this credit crunch is around.

Very good thread, I have some opinions which may or may not be correct, based merely on my perception, from news, friends, etc. basically my view.

While I can see some of the blame on consumers/homebuyers, I have to say that I place more of the blame on the banks/mortgage companies/wall street, for this crisis.

Why?

Who is being punished for these mistakes?

Consumers? YES - some are losing everything

Banks? NO - they are being saved by the FED

Sure there are some proposals to help the citizens,

tax rebate (go spend it says the govt, so who does that help in the end? business)

legislation to freeze the ARMs ( I think that is what they are pushing, to help the citizen?
or help to keep foreclosures down for the BANKS?)

Who is really being helped here? Citizens or Banks?


From where I sit, everything is being done to help the banks.

Am I wrong, if so please explain to me where I am wrong.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
Todays' society is based on the social image of what money can get for you. And what you have without it.

Try getting a date without a decent job, apartment, car, social status objects, etc. in Los Angeles.

I understand that. But I think it describes something fundamental about our nature.

To temper that reality requires a system of accountability....Then everyone proceeds on the merits.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
I sincerely believe that the reason I get any interest in what I have to say...is because I am sitting behind an anonymous screen.

Then let me provide some small comfort.

That is not universally true. I will talk to anyone....as will most of the people I call my friends.

I truly believe that is not as rare a trait as some would otherwise have us believe.

(Incidentally, I find it hard to imagine you would be any less interesting in person-- respectful disagreements notwithstanding. )

Someone stated something about a study showing where it was cheaper to rent than to own. I disagree with the statement that if you buy a home, you'll spend 100,000 over 10 years. At least for my situation, I bought a brand new home for less almost 10 years ago for less than 100,000. I refinanced when rates were at historic lows at 4.75 percent fixed for 15 years and only had to pay about 20 dollars a month more than my 30 year mortgage I used to own. I'm rapidly building up equity in my house and now half my payment is actually coming back to me since half the payment I make is going towards paying off my principal. Since my house was new, I haven't spend very much money on my house other than occasionally fixing a few minor things which I picked up at the local hardware store. In fact South Carolina is lowering their property taxes so my monthly payment will be dropping now. Costing me $100,000 over 10 years? Not here by a really long shot. The difference in rent between what I was paying and my current mortgage payment, only about 300 a month.

Now maybe the study was done in California with extremely high house and rent prices. I know it doesn't apply to my situation.

I forgot to mention I saved thousands of dollars by buying a home and deducting mortgage interest over several years. If you can afford the downpayment and monthly payments, it made a lot more sense to buy. However if house prices are rapidly dropping in your area, I would rent for a while.


[edit on 21-2-2008 by orionthehunter]

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
From where I sit, everything is being done to help the banks.

Am I wrong, if so please explain to me where I am wrong.

That is what accomplices do.