Ronald Weinland (nothing yet...)

reply to post by heliosprime


You keep pointing me back to Revelation 22:14 and I will redirect you, once again to I John 3:22-23:

And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment (I John 3:22-23)

Do you not understand that if you keep the one, you have kept them all? Revelation 22:14 only reinforces what I am trying to show you in I John3:22-23.

I have to wonder what dispensation you are living under? Under the Gospel dispensation ALL of God’s commandments are summed up in this singular commandment: “That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”

In the above post you directed me to The Church of God website. I do not know how you regard Herbert W. Armstrong or, Ronald Weinland. What I want to point out, especially about Herbert W. Armstong, are the failed prophecies he made in his lifetime. Go back to the closed thread : www.abovetopsecret.com... And examine the failed prophecies of Herbert W. Armstrong. This is the same man Ronald Weinland holds in high regard, as an Apostle and the end-time Elijah, yet by his own words, Herbert W. Armstrong was scripturally judged as a False Prophet and now, we have Mr. Weinland rising up in the same spirit as Herbert W. Armstrong, making bold claims.

My point is this, you, me, as well as anyone else, must realize, if a man’s doctrine is firmly established and securely grounded in truth, it will not produce the fruit of a False Prophet. A well established doctrine stemming from the foundation of Christ, prevents any man from elevating himself to a high stature, such has been the case with Herbert W. Armstrong and Ronald Weinland. It just will not happen. Yet, it has happened with Mr. Armstrong and is taking place with Mr. Weinland.

Therefore, if you honestly believe that you are standing in truth and have the complete unadulterated word of God, I submit to you, that such error as has come out of this doctrine by the fruit of Mr. Armstrong and now, Mr. Weinland, should be enough to open your eyes to the fact, that where a False Prophet blooms, the seed (doctrine) is no the truth at all. Like I said, you, me, and anyone else, have two choices, we can acknowledge the error or close our eyes to it and continue therein.

reply to post by jdposey

18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Jdposey you truly baffle me with your post’s as you seem to have a great amount of knowledge but I read no humbleness or meekness of spirit in your posts I am truly sorry to say.
Let me help you straight in your interpretation of your favourite bible quote John 3 and 22-23.

If you had a true understanding of the above quote you would understand that John is speaking about a relationship; all of our relationships. Every one of the Ten Commandments is about our relationship with each other but most importantly our relationship with Jesus and God. Now let us take the commandment:

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is , and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This is about keeping our relationship with God and Jesus; a day we are to come together and sit at Gods knees and be taught. Not a day to lounge around and do nothing but to be kept special as it is the day that God teaches us/set aside for this use only; brings us closer; the start of our fellowship/relationship with him. For you see God desires a relationship with us so if we are not keeping this commandment then how are we to have a relationship with God and be taught??

Let me ask you if the above commandment is of no longer any importance and should be dismissed; where exactly does that leave the other commandments?????
Are we therefore allowed to steal now??

And a bigger question is you seem to desire a good relationship with your fellow man but yet you deny your relationship with God and Jesus by not keeping this one commandment?? You really baffle me!!

Also this nailing of the law to the cross baffles me!! Mans logic is so shot to hell!!
God said that Jesus would be the one sign he would send to prove who he was; Jesus came and fulfilled the Passover; he was the lamb that was slaughtered/sacrificed and if anything this means the Law was confirmed by Jesus fulfilling prophecy and not the other way around and the Law being done away with; think about it; why would Jesus observe the Sabbath days?? If they were to be done away with when he was sacrificed; people’s logic on this baffles me??? God’s law would have been set in concrete/stone if anything by Jesus fulfilling prophecy; Jesus is the ultimate example of how we are to live our lives which includes the Sabbath day.

I feel truly sorry for you JD; you have spent the last 30 years and have probably been knocked from pillar to post and you finally come to a place you feel happy and then along comes Ronald’s book and throws everything out of the window for you; I consider myself lucky in that respects. But for you I can imagine the battle taking place inside of you is a hard one; the hardest one you will ever know; well I wish you luck and will say a pray for you in the hope that you may see the truth and come out of the darkness and join your brethren; your true family.

My last point to you is this; this little war you have begun against Ronald and what he teaches will shortly come to an end and either you or I will be eating humble pie and lots of it but either way there is only one thing that will prove Ronald and that is time; we have only a set amount of months until we see if Ronald is correct or not. All the scripture that you insist on posting has no meaning for me because for every piece you produce saying this or that I have a different answer for you as probably do most other people on here so may I suggest you bide your time and await the outcome as Ronald has predicted then if nothing happens I may be willing to listen to you and your preaching.

Peace all.

reply to post by WeAreOne



You mention that I baffle you, that is understandable. If you want to know why the things I say, baffle you, may I suggest you read II Corinthians 3: 1-18. I also understand where you are coming from, you are looking outwardly at all of this.

You mention the commandment, Thou Shalt Not Steal. Let's take it further, Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery. It is a law you can see with the eye and within your mind agree, I can not commit adultery. But then, Jesus comes along and says, You have heard it said, thou shalt not commit adultery, but, if you so much as look lustfully at a woman, you have committed adultery.

I ask you, WeAreOne, does the commandment you see with the eye, have power to guard your heart against lust, so that you do not transgress against the commandment? If you walk by sight, you will surely transgress the commandment, but, if you walk after the Spirit, and the Spirit of the Law resides in your heart through faith in Christ Jesus, only that Spirit can address the lust which the commandment has no power to deal with.

This is the difference between the Law you perceive to follow and the one we are directed to follow. We do walk by faith and not sight. But if we prefer to walk by sight, we will stumble mercifully. If you prefer to look at the law written on stone rather than the one written upon our hearts, that is your choice. This is why Paul stated if we are led by the Spirit, we are not under law. It is hard to see the law written within our hearts.

As for Ronald Weinland and this assumed war, no, it is more like a shofar sound, warning current deception, like I have stated in a previous post, no good seed (doctrine) can come out of False Prophets. You may perceive yourself following after God, but if you listen to yourself as well as others who defend Mr. Weinland, it is clear to whom your devotion is directed, when it is Jesus who shed His blood for us and whom should forever be lifted. What is evident is that you are following a doctrine as intepreted by a man named Ronald Weinland, who would lead you to believe you are seeking after God.

reply to post by jdposey


Again, I care not for your rantings against HWA or RW. The issue is the covenant between GOD and his people.

This is simple and straight forward.

GOD

Christ his son

The holy Spirit

The sabbath, 7 annual sabbaths, the commandments.

If the beginning of the bible speaks to the complete convenant and the end of the bible speaks to the same issue. Nothing in between can change to LAW.

What part of Jesus own words do you not understand.

How much more simple can it be explained. Matt 5:17-19

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

www.biblegateway.com...

I think verse 18 says is all................

Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law

Nothing in John or any other apostle misunderstood or translated can change this FACT!

The LAW is the LAW of GOD, not the sillyness of the Pharasies, or any televangelist, or pope, priest, head of XYZ church. NOTHING......

Be "content" in your traditions of man sir. Its your choice.

reply to post by jdposey


Finally it has become obvious you seek not to REPENT of your breaking of the LAW in the commandments. The "LUST" issue is to show all break the law and must repent of thier sins.

I submit that you think through grace you can ignore the law because you can't follow it, so you ignore it. Rather you should embrace the fact that all fail and must seek forgivness.

One must follow the LAW and when you fail, (and you will), seek forgiveness.



[edit on 3-3-2008 by heliosprime]

Gentlemen, gentlemen,...

Please stay on topic.

The issue aforefront is whether anything has happened to verify RW's claims to a massive attack against the U.S.

so far -- nada, zilch, nothing

Keep tithing him though. (suckers)

Maybe it will be Venezuela that launches this massive attack?
nea, Hugo likes us buying his oil.

reply to post by Rumrunner


How wrong you are. Jesus told his followers to always keep his father's sabbath holy and true. That didn't mean to turn it into a sunday (pagan worship of the sun gods) sabbath but keep it as the 7th day sabbath (saturday). Read your bible and then comment before making false claims like that.

That last comment was not meant to offend even though it probably did. I shouldn't have said the part about reading your bibles but the fact of the matter is, man's blindness has corrupted his thinking of the interpretation of the Bible. Just because the word "easter" is mentioned in the bible, doesn't mean we should celebrate it. Here's a new topic starter too. Easter is traditionally celebrated as a christian holiday in honor of the passion of Christ when he died on the cross and rose on the third day. What people fail to realize is that "easter" was originally a pagan holiday that celebrated the god and goddess of fertility. Hence the "easter bunny" which is the symbol of firtility due to the mass reproduction of rabbits. The colorful easter egg is symbolism for the fertility of the gods as it symolizes the dawn of a new life. What chrisitans need to realize is that the passion of Christ is suppose to be celebrated on the annual passover. That was the whole point of the last supper. Drink the wine for it is the blood of Christ. Eat the bread for it is the flesh of Christ. He died for our sins. We literally drank his blood and ate his flesh as he died on the cross for our sins. He was the sacrificial lamb of the passover which stopped the need for slaughtering a lamb sacrifice but didn't stop the celebration of the passover. It was Christ who said to keep the passover holy. It was Constantine, the Roman Emperor who decided to make the chrisitan passover on a sunday and adopting the pagan holiday "easter" which actually translates to the word "passover" in the greek text. What Constantine wanted to do was create division between Jews and Christians. Along with the Roman Catholic Church, Constantine made that possible. Roman Catholics are the ones who changed the sabbath to a sunday which was the day the pagans worshipped the sun god. Nothing in the Catholic religion is kept holy through the teachings of Christ or his apostles. As for Ron Weinland, it's a wait and see thing for me. One church organization I find to be followers of the true teachings of Christ is the "United Church of God" which is completely different from the "Church of God PKG." UCG believes the standard belief that we are living in the end times. They tie current events with bible prophecy that has already been written. The have many booklets and newsletters free of charge that are very educational when it comes to true teachings of the bible and prophecy. Skeptics are welcome to check them out but the fact of the matter is this.... they don't ask for your money and they don't claim to be prophets. They simply provide insight to difficult passages and books in the bible and concentrate mainly on prophecy. They can even pinpoint where the U.S. and Britain fit in with bible prophecy. Even clear up the misconception of a pre-trib rapture like what Tim Lahaye teaches. Just go to www.gnm.com and get a free subscription to the "good news magazine" and request free booklets. Just remember that a true christian spreads the word, and enlightens the troubled-spirited in the world.

Just got my copy of the book, again I say the basic message is close, BUT, I must take a deep breath and step back about him being one of the two witnesses of Rev 11.

reply to post by heliosprime


Just imagine how it was for those that know him.

-Later

Originally posted by heliosprime
Just got my copy of the book, again I say the basic message is close, ...

No, the guy is not 'close'. Jonah (in the Bible) didn't offer up a 10-thousand word essay about how HE is a prophet. Jonah said what he said and what he said was short, succinct and to the point:

"Yet forty days, and Ninevah shall be overthrown"

For Ron W. to BURY (on page 76? or was it 101?) the first claim he is one of the "two witnesses" is an insult to his readers.

I find his (RW's) books quite boring.

The law (the 10 commandments) for a Christian is to be WRITTEN ON THE HEART, so yes, it's an inward thing, and not an "outward appearance", BUT it is manifested outward in our behavior. So it is not one or the other (we keep law and are legalists, or we don't keep law because we keep it in our hearts because we are under grace), it is BOTH.

So two people who outwardly may be keeping the commandments, one of them may be a pharisee (where the law is not "written in the inward parts"), while the other one may be outwardly keeping the commandments AND have the law written in his heart, this second one would qualify as a true Christian.

To get back on track of this thread...

Mr RW has made a number of claims. (since start of original thread that was locked)

1) he is one of the Two Witnesses
2) the 1335 days started Feb 2, 2008
3) the 144,000 thousand have been sealed.

Let's back track a second, one of RW's main problems is that he "spiritualizes" everything away, by that I mean that he transfers prophecies that will happen "physically" (that is, the prophecies manifest visibly is some form...like the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies) to some spiritual application.

This is his great mistake.


O.K., now to address point #3

3) the 144,000 thousand have been sealed


Does the bible support his statement? (let's forego, his statement in the sermon that he's received this truth via prophetic revelation).

What does the bible say? Who do you wish to believe? What the bible says, which is inspired by God (yes "written" by men)? Or the claims of some man?

The decision should be easy, because the answer to whether this has happened or not, is truly, truly easy.

Here is what the Book of Revelation says, in regards to the time this occurs.


Rev 6:12 And when He had opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake. And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.

Rev 6:17 for the great day of His wrath has come, and who will be able to stand?

Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth so that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

Rev 7:3 saying, Do not hurt the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads



3 Important things to note...

A) A WORLD WIDE visible sign will be seen by ALL, which occurs at the opening of the 6th seal.
The sun will become black, and the moon will turn to the color of blood.
No one anywhere, who has sight, will miss this.

This sign (sun turning black, mooning turning to blood) IS NOT SOME "SPIRITUAL" thing that has happened. In other words, this is a sign that will manifest visibly, physically, in the real world where EVERBODY WILL SEE IT.




B) AFTER this happens (which of course means that BEFORE the sealing of the 144,000, this must occur)
What follows? What follows AFTER THIS SIGN IS FULLFILLED?
This sign occurs FIRST....THEN something after it will occur, what is it? What will occur AFTER this sign??

It should also be noted (another point for pinning down the timing), in Rev 6:17 we note that it is "The Great Day of His Wrath".
This is commonly understood (with those with a Church of God background) to refer to the "Day of the Lord", in other words, "the Lord's Day" (that is the prophetic Lord's Day, not the Sabbath which is also the Lord's Day).

The Lord's Day is the LAST YEAR of the 3 1/2 years, of the tribulation period.



C) THEN after this happens (sun + moon sign), THEN the 144,000 ARE SEALED.
From Rev 6:17, we now realize the time, the time is somewhere at the start of the last year, that is the time the sealing occurs.





This even has not occurred, Mr RW is in error when he states that this event has happened.
We must do what the Bereans did, CHECK THE SCRIPTURES TO SEE IF IS TRUE!!!!!
(which they were commended in doing).


Now point #2
2) the 1335 days started Feb 2, 2008

There are 3 major "sign post" dates, for Christians to look for...
A) 1335 days
B) 1290 days
C) 1260 days


A) At 1335 days true Christians will gather at Jerusalem! Why? How can I know? How can YOU know? Does the bible support this??
We know BECAUSE OF THE NEXT "sign post"!

B) at this sign post, 45 days AFTER the start of the 1335 days, at the 1290 day mark (according to RW the 1335 days began Feb 2, so that the 1290 mark OCCURED THIS PAST WEEK, it DIDN'T but let's proceed), we have the next major VISIBLE sign to occur (that is visible in some physical way, we are not to "spiritualize" away the sign).

This next sign involves 2 things. (Both book of Daniel + Matthew 24 discuss this).
(B1) Jerusalem is surround by the armies of the Beast Power.
(B2) Daily sacrifice (which does not require a rebuild Temple) is forcibly stopped.

At this sign THE CHURCH IS COMMANDED TO FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS..toward Petra.

This HAS NOT OCCURRED!!! This sign (according to RW's timing) should have been fulfilled this PAST WEEK.
I'm sure RW has "spiritualized" away the meaning of this event, which is sad, because when it really happens, neither he nor his followers will recognize these PHYSICAL SIGNS.




now to point #1
1) he is one of the Two Witnesses
I believe that RW believes that his wife is the second witness, this has not been confirmed yet, but this is what has been indicated via the "grape vine".
God never has worked with a husband and wife pair (that I can recall), He has always chosen men to be his prophets when there is a major work (yes the NT does mention one or two women, who were prophetesses). The Two Witnesses will be two men who are alive TODAY, not a resurrected Elijah / Moses pair. As a rule, God has never resurrected a prophet FROM A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AGE, to prophecy to a nation of another age. That prophet would have no understanding of the age he was prophesying to, so would be an ineffectual servant.

My conclusion, based upon examining the scriptures (like Bereans did) is it does not agree with Bible.



[edit on 22-3-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib]

p.s. It should be mentioned, if it hasn't already, one very key doctrine that RW teaches, that is so glaringly wrong, it astounds me.

One of his key doctrines, is that Jesus Christ, did not exist before He was born of human flesh. That Jesus Christ did not exist eternally, before He came into the world with God The Father.

This is based on a SINGLE scripture in the OT, and is taken out of context, not to mention it requires throwing out 99% of the rest of the Bible which teaches clearly otherwise.

Roughly paraphrasing it, the scripture says, "The Lord God is One".
RW should know, from his WCG background that God's name is a uni-plural name, describing His nature.

For example, if you follow baseball, you could say the Yankees are the one to beat for the world series. Yankees - is uni-plural, it means ONE TEAM, but more than ONE PERSON is in it.

In reality I don't think the verse should be interpreted even in this way, I believe the verse is saying, (paraphrasing sort of)
"The Lord God is THE One...to worship"

It's very important that RW proponents realize one thing....
The biblical test for a prophet has NOTHING to do with whether the prophesy he speaks comes true or not. This has never been a sign of a true prophet as far as the bible is concerned.

The claim for the title of prophet is not based on...
1) how nice he is in person
2) what a great speaker he is
3) how rich he is, or how poor he is
4) how good looking he is, or not good looking he is
5) how proud he is or how humble he is
6) and MOST IMPORTANTLY if his prophesy comes TRUE.

It goes without say, that if the prophesy does NOT come true, then he is a false prophet.

Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 when a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken: the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him.



The biblical test for a true prophet has to do with whether he is preaching false doctrines! Not whether the prophesy comes true or not.
Primarily the doctrines that will lead them away from the true worship of the true God.

Deu 13:1 If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and he give thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3 thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

RW has plainly stated that Jesus Christ did not exist prior to His human birth, so even here, RW, is leading his members away from both God the Father and The Word, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is also God.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib]

[edit on 24-3-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib]

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib
The biblical test for a true prophet has to do with whether he is preaching false doctrines! Not whether the prophesy comes true or not.
Primarily the doctrines that will lead them away from the true worship of the true God.

I am glad that someone, such as yourself, sees what I have been trying to convey in regard to Ronald Weinland and the fact, where you see men rising up and making bold claims, like that of Mr. Weinland, one needs to look closely at their doctrine.

What is alarming, he has corrupted the foundation of the faith, so, the faith he is leading his followers into, at the very base, it is corrupted and that is a grave, grave, error which he has lead everyone into with respect to their salvation.

Some excellent truth SirPaul/JD..you went down the path in an earleir thread I just hinted at...mainly the massive amount of typing involved. Still RW and others like him do support the fact we are in the end times since false prophets are rising up today.

Originally posted by BlackProjects
Still RW and others like him do support the fact we are in the end times since false prophets are rising up today.

Yes, unfortunately, RW is doing his part to fulfill scripture, but not in a way he expects. He is fulfilling the sign of the arrival of false prophets.

G'day from the land of Oz.

I have just posted elsewhere in these forums, about a dream I had, but I'll repeat it here, because I believe it has bearing on the arguments going on here.

I believe that Repentence, not physical, but intellectually and spiritually is the answer to everything mentioned in this forum so far.

Ronald Weiland mentions a Saturday Sabbath (which I agree with), but also talks about repentance.

Some years ago I was greatly troubled by constant thoughts of things I had done wrong in my life. I am not a churchgoer, but believe in God, and prayed for an answer.

One night I dreamt I was before God and a group of men, and was given two words and their correct spelling. I could not sleep until I had got up and entered the words on my computer. I went back to bed and slept soundly.

Some days later I googled the two words and to my surprise I got a single hit, a page summing up the works of two jewish philosophers about the meaning of repentance. A lengthy, difficult, but informative read.

Nowadays the two words hit on many sites, but Googling results, at the moment, in the second hit as the page by Kok-Solov.

The words? Meulah factor

I believe your arguments to date are immaterial. The path to God lies in true repentance, and following Gods word, and repenting, with mind and soul, those things that being of the flesh mires us down with. Certainly Saturday worship strikes a chord in me, and I believe that if enough people were to truly repent, then the end time would be averted. Unfortunately I also believe there's little chance of that occurring. Everyone who I tell the dream to treats me as though I'm a few planks short of a ship.

However, if you've got the time, and the intellect to understand the heavy going, google the words, and read the result.

I hope they strike a chord in you too!

Warmest regards

OzSanta

I had a dream a couple of weeks ago. I havent watched any movies or shows or talked about anything that would have made this dream occur and it was very real a very vivd dream of watching a bombing in the U.S.
I was in a building like a sky scraper or a big hotel and I was looking out the window to a sky scraper, I saw nuclear missles coming out of the sky and aimed at the sky scraper I was looking at, then I realized holy crap theres more and I hid in the bath tub with a mattress over myself trying to protect myself from getting killed in the explosion. Everything after that is fuzzzy but I remember trying to tell every one what was REALLY happening. That the seveneth seal has been broken. And every one thought I was crazy. I have told myself in reality that if these profecies come true I will repent and I will follow the path of god. I want to live into the kingdom of god. As of now, I dont know if I believe theres a god, but people need proof right? I always have, and this would be the proof I need to repent.