Students don't grasp U.S. History, page 2

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reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 03:26 PM by Nelyzstar

Students dont grasp most all subjects because our education system has been purposly dumbed down because it is a Socialist System controlled by the government.

Most of the educational programs that are implemented in the United States come from the National Education Association.
The NEA was actually founded by John D. Rockefeller. John D. Rockefeller voiced the ruling elite that wants to try and homogenize the education system when he was quoted as saying, “I don’t want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers.”
The education system is not only pushing people into a socialized version of government, but also dumbing the individual down to the point where he’ll ‘be a good worker in the factory, or he’ll be a good worker in silicone valley. He may know a lot about computers but he is not going to have a classic education that allow him to take all of the facets; the culture, the society and put it together to form an intelligent opinion as to what’s really going on and what might be in the best interest of the individual.

Also
The New Freedom Commission...

States..

The New Freedom Commission, is a Federal program to mandate the bogus screening and compulsory medications of children from infancy through 18 years of age in the country. Through the use of completely inappropriate screening techniques, any child who deviates from the prescribed feeling of thought pattern that is allowed to them, will be compulsory medicated. Even over the objection of their parents. With dangerous, unproven, and untested psychiatric medications to control their thoughts, their behaviors, and to impede their emotional development. This is a federally mandated program.

psychservices.psychiatryonline.org...

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 03:41 PM by Shedman

I must admit that I hated school and wanted nothing to do with it once I left. I love to read and learn about new things, but school was so tedious and boring I couldn't stay focused. Even now I feel sorry for my kids having to slog their way through piles of meaningless busy work.
My real education didn't start until later in life. I have always been curious about science, especially physics, which has taken me into many interesting places. I also studied a lot of religious and metaphysical material which mixed in an interesting way with my scientific studies.
What I have learned is that self directed study is far more efficient and rewarding than taking a class. The internet is priceless for finding the key players in whichever field of interest is being investigated. Rare books and articles can easily be found, where a search of physical libraries and bookstores would take forever.
In fact, the internet is such an effective disseminator of information I'm surprised the Government hasn't regulated it yet. How are the banksters going to control us if we know what their plan is?

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 04:22 PM by Basilis

My dad always tells me I'd be surprised how ignorant some people are, and I'm starting to believe him.

I think a lot of this has something to do with kids homes. I was, and still am, brought up in a house where my dad started me on reading, and my mom used to make me study for hours on spelling tests when I was younger.

If the parents don't make the kids study or read or do anything why would they make themselves do it?

**Sorry for any grammar mistakes or idiotic remarks, I've knocked back a few**

-Will

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 04:27 PM by merryxmas

It's a double edged sword. On one hand I wish everyone were more learned and then we would be a much more civil society on the other hand if everyone was then who would pump my gas/fetch my drink/clean the office/wash the windows/pick up the trash etc. etc. It's social darwinism and the inequalities we have as a society benefit those that seek to learn.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 05:11 PM by sc2099

Originally posted by andy1033
I can understand people that never went to college, to not know history, but these are college students. Very strange.

Yes, because everyone who never went to college is a total uneducated, illiterate moron. Is that what they told you to make sure they got your parents' hard earned money?

Clearly the people going to college aren't doing very well so maybe you should reevaluate your yardstick for being well informed.

To ProfEmeritus: You mentioned how terrible a large percentage of teachers are in the public school system and I couldn't agree more. Think about it, a student who was average in high school - grades of B's and C's gets into their local state school, parties there for four years, and comes out with a degree and a certification to educate the next generation. LOL it's preposterous when you think about it. I can't remember how many times I had a teacher I just didn't respect because they couldn't teach me anything I didn't already know or couldn't have taught myself just from reading the book.

To the OP: The solution? Parents. Education needs to begin with parents in the home. Kids need to be read to before they can even hold the book, not parked in front of the tv until they're old enough to go to school. Kids need their parents to interact with them rather than filling every spare second of their time with soccer and piano lessons and tutoring. Parents need to make sure kids actually do their homework instead of just pawning their bad grades off on a learning disability and then sticking them into tutoring. The key in all of this is parents. If parents would become their own child's mentor instead of Fitty Cent, then children would actually respect their parents instead of thinking they're just total tools and bank machines.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 06:33 PM by polanksi

It is what it is. We are a technological nation. It looks like many of the inventions over the years have led to the decline of the need for knowledge per se. Anything can be researched on the computer with little effort. Cell phones dominate hours that used to be used differently in the past. Our car even navigates for us. In addition to the technological influence on our society we have cultivated sports to the exclusion of other 'intellectual' endeavors. Youth sports are everywhere children, or more correctly parents, can choose from dozens of sports.

There is also a para-military slant to our society. Intelligence for
some is all we need they can be found at Choate, Suffield, The George School, or the Gunnery et.al. The rest can go to public schools where the foot soldiers will be culled. These grunts will be sent to war to protect the wealth of the few. The party line, however, is that it's patriotic to serve your nation even if only the middle and lower classes die.

There are many reasons that American education has declined but if those who teach, teach what they know to be true. Maybe enough will be passed on to make a difference. But fewer and fewer are willing to devout their lives to anything but the pursuit of pleasure.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 06:47 PM by ShiftTrio

No Offense, but does anyone know what was on the test, for all we know they could have been asking for Chester A Arthur's (sp) shoe size. We need more funding lets see how dumb we can make our students look. Ask the same question to these youths about how to crack a firewall, Ask your grandparent who knows all about the presidents that one. Now I do agree people need to know their history, events that changed this nation. But lets get some perspective on what they were asked before saying how dumb everyone is.

[edit on 19-2-2008 by ShiftTrio]

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 06:56 PM by TheWalkingFox

It's not dumb students. It's not bad teachers. It's fake education.

Students can only learn what they are taught. Teachers can only provide what they are given (with a little wriggle room). Education beyond that level - that is, education at the level that truly matters in our system - is corporate-controlled. And as usual in such a system, profit margin is a higher concern than quality of product. In fact a poor-quality product can often be BETTER since it has to be replaced more often, resulting in higher profits!

The result? Disjointed, vague textbooks, and bubble-test after bubble test. Create the illusion of education and productivity through senseless busy work, filling out forms, and practicing to fill out forms.

Just like at the office!

Privatizing school and home schooling won't work - unless you have total free reign over the material you choose, the same companies are going to be giving you the same materials and the same methods of "Evaluation" (it's no longer "testing" I hear)

It's no grand conspiracy to keep the American people dumb (though that's probably a bonus) - the goal is to make people think they're receiving a product for their money, when they're actually being sold beachfront property in Kansas. And since you can't quantify "Education" like you can more tangible property, they're immune to consumer fraud charges.

[edit on 19-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 07:13 PM by Rockpuck

So WHO is to blame, the students for failing to learn, or the teachers or system for failing to teach the material?

Hows about.... the Students?

"oh its the teachers! Oh its the system! Oh its the PARENTS!!!!"

No.

Its the students.

They are retarded. Stupid ignorant students to engrained into what Britney is doing and what a whore her sister is and what the latest freaking reality show is and what the ignorant fools on those shows are doing and how they should dress, eat, talk, drink, think and be just like them.

Sickening.

Its a Western society thing.

Its the students.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 07:38 PM by ProfEmeritus

THAT is EXACTLY the point! People who are armed with knowledge, logic and understanding would certainly never allow us to be travelling down this path and repeating the mistakes of Germany circa 1930s! -kozmo

There are those of us who have tried to change that. The problem is that we get shut down by the unions. Unions want all teachers and professors(yes, there are many state colleges that have unions- I was at one) to be dependent on them. That means that those of us who tried to go beyond the "union level" were making "it bad for the rest of the members". If we tried to do more in class, then we were breaking union rules. I did anyway, but it was not easy. I made many enemies, and had to constantly watch my back.

Most of the educational programs that are implemented in the United States come from the National Education Association. -Nelyzstar

The NEA was actually founded by John D. Rockefeller. John D. Rockefeller voiced the ruling elite that wants to try and homogenize the education system when he was quoted as saying, “I don’t want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers.”

The NEA is absolutely part of the problem. However, the sad truth is that we are not even getting a nation of workers, since Big Business has decided that they can get them by either offshore outsourcing, or bringing in H1B workers to replace Americans.

What I have learned is that self directed study is far more efficient and rewarding than taking a class. The internet is priceless for finding the key players in whichever field of interest is being investigated. Rare books and articles can easily be found, where a search of physical libraries and bookstores would take forever. -Shedman

I agree with you up to a point. In fact, many of the junior and senior classes that I ran, went along those lines. Students would create projects that were self-directed, and my job would be to guide them and encourage them. By the way, my students had no problem getting very good paying, rewarding jobs, because of the contacts that I maintained in the business world, prior to teaching. The reservation (in my up to a point) is that unfortunately, firms want people with degrees. Now before you jump, understand that I don't believe that a degree means anything, unless you look at the student and the curriculum, and the LACK of a degree does not mean that the person would not be a great worker. The sad reality is that most firms prefer the degree, because it allows them to convince themselves that they just made a "good hire". I would take a great worker WITHOUT a degree over a mediocre worker with 3 degrees.

I think a lot of this has something to do with kids homes. I was, and still am, brought up in a house where my dad started me on reading, and my mom used to make me study for hours on spelling tests when I was younger.-Basilis

Basilis- I couldn't agree more. Neither of my parents had much of an education because their families were poor (1st generation Americans) and they had to go to work to help their families, BOTH of my parents stressed EDUCATION, and both struggled so that my siblings and I could go to college. In second grade, I once came home with a sloppy notebook, along with a teachers' note about my penmanship. My father made me stay up nights until I had copied the entire notebook over to his satisfaction and the teachers'. Believe me, I never produced sloppy work again.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 07:50 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by sc2099

Just so you are aware that I AM the OP. I posted this to get a good discussion going, and I think we've succeeded.

HERE IS WHAT YOU CAN DO AS PARENTS:

1.) Get involved with the education of your sons and daughters. Many of you already are, and that is fantastic.

2.) At all levels, DEMAND a better quality of education. Don't be afraid to question the administrations and faculty. They're no better than you are, in fact, in many cases, you have much more wisdom than them. If all they're doing is giving memorization tests, and multiple choice, ask them WHY?

3.) When and if you go look at colleges, understand one thing. Colleges and Universities like for you to see their grounds and buildings and cafeterias. Look past them. In fact, if those facilities are fantastic, it probably means that they're spending your tuition money on the WRONG THINGS. Look for more classrooms, with SMALLER size. Talk to the professors. In fact, ask the school if you or your child can SIT IN on a class. Many will allow that. It will give you a good idea of the TYPE of education that the student gets. Don't be impressed by the campus tours. They're MEANINGLESS.

4.) Also PLEASE understand that students can get a great education at most colleges, but it takes work on the students' part to find the good professors. By good, I mean those that go beyond, not those that just give good grades. Some students, unfortunately just want an "Easy A". Then when they get out in the real world, they have no real education or skill, and they're stuck in some dead end job.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 07:57 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by polanksi

It is what it is. We are a technological nation. It looks like many of the inventions over the years have led to the decline of the need for knowledge per se.

I would disagree with your premise. In fact, technology has created a GREATER demand of knowledge and skill, in order to SUSTAIN and GROW that technology. Look at what the creators of GOOGLE did with the page ranking algorithm.
I think what you are referring to is the "USER". Those that USE the technology need not perform many of the mundane tasks that used to be a manual process. Yes, that can foster a laziness, but it can also free up people to perform more important tasks. It's all what you make of it. Many of the discoveries and inventions today would not have been possible without much of the new technology.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 08:11 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

the goal is to make people think they're receiving a product for their money, when they're actually being sold beachfront property in Kansas. And since you can't quantify "Education" like you can more tangible property, they're immune to consumer fraud charges.

WalkingFox- You hit a nail on the head with this one. Don't let ANYONE tell you that school ISN'T a business. My colleagues would have a hissy-fit when I would tell them that it SHOULD be run like a business. The problem is that most academics DON'T know how to run a business. So here's what they would do- they'd sit around and ask each other what classes they could bring into the curriculum to draw in new students. When they couldn't think of anything, they would then ask other colleges what they think.(The blind leading the blind). I suggested that they should ASK the businesses and the organizations WHAT THEY THOUGHT should be taught. You know my colleagues answer? -WHAT DO BUSINESSES KNOW ABOUT EDUCATION?
Gee, they're ONLY the people who are HIRING the graduates. You think maybe they know best what they need?

ANY BUSINESS THAT NEEDS TO SUCCEED MUST PROVIDE VALUE FOR THE CUSTOMER. THE STUDENT IS THE CUSTOMER. SIMPLE. So simple, that many academics just don't get it. After all, they reason, we have PhDs. Why should we listen to those people that don't.

When I ran my corporation, I would constantly ask other execs why colleges aren't providing us with graduates that can hit the ground running, right out of college. After teaching for almost a decade, I finally got the picture, and it is not nice. There are great teachers that have the same philosophy that I had, but in many places, there are more that do not, and as I said earlier, the votes count when it comes to curriculum.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 08:46 PM by avingard

The system is flawed, all of it in general but the way history is taught in general. I am a college student, so I have a current perspective of history classes and the reason that students don't grasp or remember history is because it is taught as a timeline. Dates and names, that's it. How may of those can you remember?

History's only importance is the relationships between events, the underlying ebb and flow, and that is totally ignored in our education system.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 08:59 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by avingard

If you want to read a book that presents history in a very interesting way, read Gavin Menzies "1421 the Year China Discovered America". Be forewarned however, that many academics have condemned the book as hogwash. I see the book as proposing a possible alternative to the traditional "wisdom". Regardless of whether you believe it or not, it is a very interesting read. The book is in softback.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 09:08 PM by Question

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

Here's a good video I recommend watching with Peg Luksis as speaker.

video.google.com...

I agree with her in that I've definetely noticed that our current educational system is not really creating the new leaders of tomorrow, but instead, the low wage workers of tomorrow.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 09:31 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by Question

Question,
Thanks very much for the video. Thanks also for dropping in on this thread.
You always bring great contributions to any thread I've been on with you.

I urge everyone to view this video. Note especially when she talks about exit outcomes. She does a good job of addressing the outcome based education that they have been pushing down everyones throats. Note WHAT some of those outcomes are. Note also when she talks about committees. You've heard my view of committees. After listening to her, you'll see what I mean about "the blind leading the blind".
Notice especially when she talks about measuring "locus of control". Do you stand up against a crowd or go with the flow? They SCORED a right answer- guess what it was? Yep- "GO WITH THE FLOW". In other words, no original thinkers wanted. Go with the group.
Do you see WHY students cannot think? The goal is collectivism. Collectivism-synonym-Communism, Socialism- as one of the posters earlier on this thread brought up.
If you're not "fed up, and you're not going to take it anymore", review the video again.
This is the educational system you now have. No real academics, just attitudes.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 09:44 PM by RevolutionaryTruth

Well first there being taught lies, I hated history it was boring, until i started reading books about are history and surprised at what ive been taught in school was mostly lies , people would be more interested in history if they were told the truth, The Government dont want you to know the truth of are past, why, you say, cause are past is full of blood, rape, murder, war. Do any of you know the truth of Columbos, or the Truth about Thanksgiving, or the Natives that this country should belong to. Heres some books for recommendation for anyone to read i encourage it, Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, Lies My Teacher Told Me Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong.

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 10:26 PM by spec_ops_wannabe

A little but famous quote came to mind when I read through this thread.
"Those who fail to remember the past are doomed to repeat it."

reply posted on 19-2-2008 @ 10:37 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by RevolutionaryTruth

What is truth?

Pontius Pilate posed this question to Christ.

When we are young, we accept our parents' words as "the truth". There is a Santa Claus. There is an Easter bunny. If you sit too close to the TV, you will go blind.

As we get older, we then accept what our elementary school teachers tell us as "the truth". Columbus discovered America. Two plus Two is four.

For centuries, the vast majority of people believed that the Earth was flat. That was their truth. Now many believe that it is round. That is now their truth. I believe it is slightly pear-shaped. That is my truth today. It may change tomorrow, if I am presented with different facts.

That question asked by Pilate two thousand years ago still stirs debates today.

What many people call truth is nothing more than their propaganda. Truth should be universal. However, philosophers have been trying to define truth for thousands of years.

When you say that what you have learned in school is lies, and what you have read in books since then is truth, what are you basing that evaluation upon? Do you have all of the facts to support one set of "truths" versus the other? Truth must conform to reality and facts. Usually the conflict of differing opinions on the truth are based upon a different set of facts and assumptions. You may like one conclusion over the other, based on personal preferences or background, but to truly say that a historical statement is true you need to be able to verify all of the facts that support that statement, and have no facts that can turn that truth into a lie.

I think it's great that you are reading books on history other than the textbooks that you were taught with. As with the book I mentioned earlier (Gavin Menzies book -1421), his "truth is based upon evidence, some circumstantial that he presents. He may be correct in his conclusions. He may not, but his "truth" is based upon the facts as he sees them. Others have a different set of "facts" as they see them, with different conclusions (their "truths").

I think if we go any further on this issue of "truth", we're into the Philosophy and Religion group, so I'll close my response now.

Keep reading though. The more you read, hopefully, the more "facts" you'll have to make a decision. That is called LEARNING. You ARE learning.

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