ATS Where are you?

Originally posted by chromatico
John Lear's departure, IMO, is certainly welcome...

Funny thing about pilots. They depart. They return. It's in the nature of things that fly.

John Lear's return, IMO, is certainly welcome.

(Can't find the STAR thingy, OP- but flagged and subscribed.)

[edit on 19-2-2008 by Chakotay]

I've had my moans in the past, but once I sat down and actually had a think about things, I realised what a great site this is.

I've been on the net since about 98, and I have to say that this is the best site I've belonged to, bar none.

It's easy to take what you have for granted - it's less easy to appreciate what you've got - but the grass ain't always greener.......
Human nature.

meh, what can you do........ (philosophical question)

Several members were recently elevated to Moderator status and some Mod's were elevated to Super Mods.
Most of these members were regular and most able and informed contributors to numerous threads.
Whilst they are adapting to their new roles I honestly think there has been a deterioration in the quality of most the posts and threads. (Hell I know I haven't helped things! )

I also think that ATS has suffered from some recent bannings, but has also benefitted from others.
These have been discussed elsewhere so I won't push this matter here.

Yes, there are aspects of ATS which I dislike and even disprove of, but all in all, it is an exceptionally well administrated site which through the overall high quality of it's membership and admins offers a thoroughly enjoyable service and opportunity to meet and discuss some great things with some great people.

It does have it's up's and down's, doesn't everything?

I assure you, this was not intended as some sort of sychophantic rant, it's just how I see things.



[edit on 19-2-2008 by Freeborn]

I just want to add that staff is quick to respond when I ask a question or what not. I was lurking for some time before I signed up to post. I used to spend hours reading posts and sometimes still do (less time to do that as often do to school, work, family).

I submitted a question/complaint a few days ago asking about the Post thing myself. I was answered very quickly and was pleased with the answer. It will return some day which is great for me. I often discuss some of the things on this site that I do in school and I think I do my best posting in other peoples threads (so I love the Post search). I ask about this because I accidentally unsubscribed to all the threads I had posted in I eventually found what I needed though it just took longer. I needed a link I had posted for extra research.
I think I have seen many posts about people thinking ATS has changed in some way, at times it might have but mostly due to the members that were posting the most at the time. I also have noticed these members eventually leave not to come back but those who are the most serious and the core of ATS stick around because we have a nice though somewhat dysfunctional family here.

I think that the reason there is often an up roar about things on ATS is the same reason we have up roars about things that happen in the government. People are being rebellious, overly critical, seeking attention, or genuinely concerned about the subject at hand. I am not saying anyone here is being which of those things that is for you to decide.

I personally would like to take this time to thank the owners and mods for doing what needs to be done.

Raist

Folks, believe me, the feature to show posts by a member was not removed for any reason other than techie stuff.

I will tell you from my own point of you it makes the job of the moderators a lot more difficult not having it available. We are awaiting its return just as much as you are.

What interesting thoughts.
We have here a forum for believers and skeptics to debate in a civil manner, and I see sniping.
I see a forum of awfully smart, distubingly ignorant, terribly mal-infomed, beautifully coherant, kind, malicious, unwavering, dedicated, damn the torpedoes, did I already say smart? (types)

The point is that in any arena where there are SO many intellects going through one anothers musings, there will be conflict.
I, for one, have only seen 1 or 2 threads closed before I really wanted them to be.
I am not a MOD nor would I want to be.
However I don't think the MODS go to some secret initiation so as to know which thread may be offensive to the three amigos. They don't seem to care about who is offended so long as one keeps a civil tongue in ones mouth, so to speak.
Look, this forum IS free.
I paid $1,200 for a computer that I still don't know how to use, and $50 a month for 'net access. (still not too sharp on that either) I don't pay for ATS.
This place is education, cathartic and fun. Deny ignorance and let the good times roll. (sorry Mods, I can't source the quote. ref T&C)

[edit on 2/19/2008 by LAUGHING-CAT]

Originally posted by OSSkyWatcher
but the fact that you are gonna have NBC ads here, then have members who regularly discredit the mainstream media...personally doesn't make me feel too comfortable posting here

I'd like to direct you to an important segment of our online media kit that serves as a reference for any firm or agency that is considering placing ads on ATS... the important part is:

Editorial Considerations

The nature of the content and discussions on AboveTopSecret.com may be provocative at times. While a significant effort continually ensures the style and tone of discussions remain civilized and polite, the actual topics being discussed may not always suit every brand. We feel it is important to embrace and encourage productive free expression within intelligent and adult decorum. Brands who also support such an environment are surely going to benefit from the resulting perception. However, at no time will we accept editorial input, control, or guidance from an advertiser. Please contact us for additional details on our editorial policies.

As you can see, we've taken proactive steps to ensure that no advertiser assumes they might be able to influence the content of ATS in any way.


As to our overall editorial stance, and the way in which we've chosen to manage the site, I direct you to our corporate home page where the following "we believe" statements are very clear:

"believe in the crowd"

The user is no longer "in charge." One-to-one communications between brands and consumers is obsolete. The crowd has taken over with a new collective intellect that surpasses any one expert. The dominance of the digital crowd is upon us.

We believe in the crowd. We support the free expression of ideas, information, hopes, and conjecture as vital building blocks toward a historic degree of collaborative knowledge.

We support the crowd. We believe in the self-determination of the crowd and its ability to know how to express and recognize issues, ideas, and knowledge of vital importance to society.

We know the culture of the digital crowd is one of collaboration driven by the ethics of sharing.

We enable the crowd to collaborate and share. We are above petty attacks, disputes, "flames," and personality focus. We aspire to higher standards of conduct. We anticipate excellence of each other. We are the crowd. We are The Above Network.

I hope these two important points help to clear up some misconceptions.

good site , good communication

i have had some beefs in the past , but i realized that with a web site so large the amount of issues is pretty low, well done to all the mod's.

Also to Skeptic Overlord , i understand the steps you took to stand up to any advertiser's perhaps trying to throw their weight around (and applaud them) , and i hope that should they none the less try (down the line) , that the character of this site (as cited in your post regarding the history channel) again proves itself and (outweighs any monetary gain that in regards to other organizations with the same initial attitudes ) managed to creep in and gain the upper hand.

It has been said before..so I hate to repeat this...
ATS is the BEST site on the net. How can anyone complain?
We as members have access to reading top notch info, from sources all over the world. We get to debate, learn, develop friendships with greatly intelligent people whom we would probably never meet otherwise.
The Amigos..work very hard to keep this site going..usually to some that like to complain too much. Would any of you like to have the job and stress that Skeptic Overlord must deal with daily?
We have the best staff of Mods..and that is not sucking up..it is fact. Just because one does not come running when a member requires it immediately does not mean they are slacking off. They don't just sit at the computer waiting for problems 24/7.
Like it was said before...
We are so very lucky that we have access to this forum at no charge to us.
No one is forced to be here.If you don't like it..you aren't happy..feel free to move on. There is a thread for suggestions, and I'm sure the more feasible ones are considered. But for gosh sakes..why is everyone looking for things to complain about?
OK so ATS has changed a bit. Change is a constant. You cannot stop it.
Growth requires change. You resist, and you stagnate.
I agree with Skyfloating...If you see something you don't like..post something better.
It's really that simple.
ATS/BTS/AP.....

I can't say that I have many complaints here about the way the site is managed.
I've seen threads closed but that's usually due to one topic being covered by different members.The other reason I see is that the thread has turned into an ego driven slug fest with no value.
As for Mr. Lear, I do miss reading his posts even though I don't always agree with him.
I've never really seen any Moderators or the Three Amigos act in malice towards a Member or a topic.People get warnings for disruptive behavior and are also made aware of the consequences BEFORE they lose points or they are banned.
I've been a Moderator (not here) and I have respect for anyone willing to take on the job.It's not an easy one, and a decision is rarely made without getting input from other Moderators.Sometimes threads are temporarily closed to turn down the heat until a final decision is made, and then re opened after discussion,or left closed for valid reasons.
I feel for Mods because they always have to add a disclaimer of "personal opinion" to threads.
People should put the foot on the other hand and REALLY look at how much there is involved in maintaining a web site such as this one and keeping it top notch.
Advertising????The math on this is too easy.Advertising is inevitable and it appears that the Three Amigos have laid out the terms for future advertisers.
I'm not sad that the History Channel didn't advertise here.I've made plenty of props for them in the past and their version of history wasn't all that accurate.

We have many brilliant members here who tirelessly contribute solid material and this is the main reason I stay here.I could care less about points and shiny baubles.All I want is substance.
That's my two coppers.

Well, it's nice to see I wasn't the only one annoyed about the direction in which ATS is heading. I stormed off the site a couple of weeks ago vowing to never come back ( As you can see, that didn't last long ) My problem is that the site has begun to embrace ingorance. Threads concerning trivial topics and unfulfilled apocolyptic predictions from Joe Shmoe dominate. Good to see everyone is expressing their doubts, finally.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord




Pretty definitive answer, really.

Originally posted by intrepid he's a busy guy enjoies

Yes, I know he is. I appreciate what he does. (Saying you don't like something on ATS doesn't mean you don't appreciate the owners and moderators. - Not directed at you, Intrepid)

I would just like if someone could respond to threads saying "so and so is busy and will get to it another time" or whatever. When no one says anything after a while it seems like we are being ignored. Thats all.

Originally posted by enjoies05
When no one says anything after a while it seems like we are being ignored. Thats all.

It may seem that way but he REALLY is that busy keeping things running. If it's not totally pertainant he doesn't have the time to answer u2us, even from staff. I send/receive 200 u2us/week. Can you imagine the volume he gets?

It's not a matter of being ignored, it's a matter of time. That's why the Complaints/Suggestions button is the best avenue.

reply to post by intrepid


Sent a complaint. No answer.

We-all, Gools has closed the other threads so I come here to continue tapping on the sounding board, hoping maybe something pops up like a posts button.

Funny how the feature was originally left disabled on purpose, then suddenly it was a matter of recoding to bring it back up. Hmm.

And the crowd thing? The crowd thinks the John Lear fiasco and the posts button is related. I don't recall saying anything about it, but if anyone feels like researching my posts with the posts button, then knock yourselves out

Originally posted by Matyas
The crowd thinks the John Lear fiasco and the posts button is related.

My jaw nearly hit the floor on this one... really.

Okay... one (last) time on the posts button...
1) We're very busy, busier than ever
2) Our database server averages over 2,000 queries a second
3) The "find all posts by ____" query is complex, and can take long
4) Long queries slow down all queries
5) When all queries slow, the entire board slows
6) When the entire board gets too slow, data corruption may happen
7) We're transitioning to a multi-server mirrored solution for the database
8) It takes time to do this properly for a very-busy live website
9) When we're done, things like the posts button and boolean search will return

Now how on earth is that related to Mr. Lear?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Well, I personally think that this forum is the best alternative news forum on the entire WWW. In fact it's my favorite site of all time. I don't care at all if there's some ads here and there because I just don't look at them and go directly where I want. I understand you need some kind of financial help to keep it running. So keep up the good work and I'm sure a lot of users agree with me.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Now how on earth is that related to Mr. Lear?

I haven't the slightest clue, you'll have to ask the crowd for that one! I figgered it was to spread equal attention to all threads, not just the high profile celebrity threads.

But start reading around, and the ramblings and rumblings point to that instead.

And yes, I am aware of the technical aspect, I used to be a private shareholder in an ISP and worked with the programmers daily.

But your original intent as expressed by your post was to leave the profile button disabled for the time being, and I don't have to ref. it here as you know what you wrote.

That hardly sounds like a recoding issue that could take days, possibly weeks, but suddenly became one. Now in the beginning if you had said, "we are going to recode the profile button and it may take a few weeks, sorry for the inconvenience" then all would have been well and few would come knocking. But this way it looks as if you did a flip/flop, and its making people ask questions.

Now am I right about this? Could we have a failure to communicate here? Or is it something more sinister?

Personally, I just want my posts button back. The crowd, OTOH, wants blood!

reply to post by Matyas


I initially hoped that I could simply recode a more efficient query, but as it turned out, it was/is as efficient as it can be for a nearly 4 million record data set.