Contrails, understanding why they arent chemtrails

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posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 01:21 AM
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Ok, so this is how a CONTRAIL forms

Ingredients
Hot and humid jet engine exhaust
Low pressure
Low temperature
Water vapour already present in the atmosphere

Shock horror.....low pressure, low temperature and water vapour are all found at the height that airplanes fly at

Method
1. Warm and moist jet exhaust, which comprises of carbon dioxide and water is pushed into the super cooled atmopshere

2. The water in the exhaust increases the local content of water in the atmopshere causing the environment to become supersaturated

3. The water vapour in the exhaust condenses into water droplets (as it warms) and attaches itself to the already present water in the atmosphere (which at this altitude, exists as ice)

4. The more water in the atmosphere, the bigger the ice crystals the bigger the contrail and the more chance of the contrails spreading out to form cirrostratus. Cirrostratus is a high level cloud formed from cool air meeting warm rising air creating instability. It is a good indicator of rain or snow as it is formed in unstable conditions. This is why many of you experience bad weather after your "chemtrail" appears. Its not weather modification....its just a picture of the NATURAL change in the environment

Any questions

Any challenges

I welcome replies




posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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Great summarisation


This is a picture of what a normal contrail from a transatlantic airliner looks like, producing a short lived contrail (gone in 5 minutes)



However in other circumstances these contrails can persist for hours - as has been known for decades.

Be interesting if anyone can refute this or show how such persistent contrails cannot be 'normal'



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 03:37 PM
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Obviously nobody can at the moment. Had a few views but apart from yourself, this one looks like its going to be avoided. Perhaps some are finally coming around?

I would doubt it



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 


ok...so it lasts like 5 minutes...ok...I agree 100% on that.
now...what about the ones that don`t dissapear??

and if these are all contrails then why are so many researchers,
air traffic controllers and many others claiming chemtrails.???

like
educate-yourself.org...
www.carnicom.com...
www.chemtrailcentral.com...
www.rense.com...
www.holmestead.ca...
www.earthrainbownetwork.com...
www.willthomas.net...
www.alive.com...
www.worldaffairsbrief.com...
www.nso.lt...

and theres lots lots more if you wanna see them



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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I`m pretty familiar with the amount of planes that fly over my area.

but on the chemtrail days it is very evident that these trails are not at all the same as the many many contrails I have witnessed.
in my opinion anyway.



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by Maya432
reply to post by Essan
 


ok...so it lasts like 5 minutes...ok...I agree 100% on that.
now...what about the ones that don`t dissapear??

and if these are all contrails then why are so many researchers,
air traffic controllers and many others claiming chemtrails.???



And whay are hundreds more people claiming contrails - and have been doing so fro decades.

Fact: no-one can provide any difference between alleged chemtrails and normal contrails - both appear 100% identical in every respect. However, whilst contrails have been studied with regards climate/weather effects for many decades, alleged chemtrails - appearing identical to contrails - supposedly only started appearing in the mid 90s. Around the time the internet got going. Coincidence? I don't thing so.



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by Maya432
I`m pretty familiar with the amount of planes that fly over my area.

but on the chemtrail days it is very evident that these trails are not at all the same as the many many contrails I have witnessed.
in my opinion anyway.


Ok, please explain how they are different.

I am a meteorologist and over here in Oz, we work very close with air traffic control. Not one of them that I have talked too believes that chemtrails exist.

Please do not use rense as a link. That guy is a nut and anything including research he posts on his site is usually BS or the actial truth is changed



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by Maya432
 


Have you also looked to www.contrailscience.com... to see a different view?



contrailscience.com...

Contrail, streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.
vapour trail.

(2007). In Encyclopædia Britannica.Retrieved May 4, 2007,from Encyclopædia Britannica Online: www.britannica.com...






Myth #3 - Long lasting contrails have appeared in “parallel lines”, “grid” and “X” formations, which are not normal, so must be “chemtrails.

False. Well, the last bit is false. Yes, contrails make all kinds of patterns in the sky, simply because there are a lot of planes flying overhead, and they fly in all directions. This is pretty much a function of where you live, and the prevailing winds. For example, if you live the Willamette Valley, Oregon, the overflying planes are nearly all North/South, so you’ll get parallel lines. If you live live in more central place, like North Texas, you’ll get planes flying overhead in every direction, so you will get “X” patterns (and “H” and “grids”). If there’s enough wind, and the trails last long enough, then the grid might spread out to cover the sky.

contrailscience.com...



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by Maya432
 


Have you also looked to www.contrailscience.com... to see a different view?



contrailscience.com...

Contrail, streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.
vapour trail.

(2007). In Encyclopædia Britannica.Retrieved May 4, 2007,from Encyclopædia Britannica Online: www.britannica.com...




I think they mean cirrostratus cloud, rather than a layer of cirrus



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
this one looks like its going to be avoided. Perhaps some are finally coming around?

I would doubt it


www.anomalies-unlimited.com...



Analysis of chemtrail spray have turned up powdered aluminum, barium, pathogens and even dried human blood cells.


MSNBC article: www.clydelewis.com...



NASA RESEARCHER Patrick Minnis studied satellite photos of the airplane jetstreams, which occur only when the sky is moist, close to forming thin clouds. What he discovered may sound far-fetched - but the evidence is clear.
For example, a distinctive oval-shaped contrail left behind by a test flight drifted across California for six hours, finally turning into a 60-mile-long cloud system. "We were very excited because it opened our eyes up to the fact that there's possibly a lot of clouds up in the sky that were originally contrails," Minnis said.
In another case, a figure-8 cloud created its own 60-mile swath of clouds over Texas and Louisiana over a nine-hour period.
NASA's Bruce Anderson actually went aloft to follow in the turbulent wake of a contrail. He came up with a theory for the role of contrails in causing atmospheric moisture to condense into clouds. "We do know that the sulfur in the fuel from aircraft generate aerosol particles, and those in turn can influence the formation of clouds," Anderson said. Could jet-caused clouds be enough to affect climate? "The number of clear days over the U.S. has decreased in the last 30 years, and we suspect that much of that is due to an increase in cirrus clouds, which we suspect is probably due to an increase in air traffic," Minnis said. And if such clouds trap heat, could they even contribute to global warming? That connection to the greenhouse effect is still murky. But there is evidence that contrail clouds can have a big impact on weather patterns. Last year, in the wake of Hurricane Nora, researchers got their most dramatic view yet: Moist air blanketed the nation's midsection from Nebraska to Texas, and scores of contrails fused into one enormous cloud - stretching for more than 800 miles."


so you explained why a contrail isn't a chemtrail. im waiting for you to complete the thought and explain why a chemtrail isn't a contrail.


how about some pictures to help out

contrail:


chemtrail:



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 04:14 PM
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I understand what you are both trying to say ...but

are all these links full of BS??

why are so many professional and non- proffessional people
claiming this??????

you need to address these links I supplied and prove to me why they
are ALL WRONG.

[edit on 19-2-2008 by Maya432]



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 04:37 PM
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Persistent contrails have been around for decades. Chemtrails allegedly only appeared from the in 90s. Both appear identical in every way.

No one can provide any means of telling them apart!!!

So if you see an elephant in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. And you have reports from scientists studying elephants from those decades, and then someone in the 1990s comes along and says that what looks like an elephant is really a mongoose - but can provide no means whereby you can otherwise tell an elephant from a mongoose - what do you believe is trampling the flowers in your garden?

Is this a mongoose?




posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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Perhaps this video will shed some light. Near the end of it you will hear Sr. Rosalie Bertell (Ph.D, Ph.D., Ph.D), the author of Planet Earth: The Latest Weapon of War.

www.youtube.com...



Also, Dr. Bertell's take on what the persistent contrail a.k.a. chemtrail is all about:

www.youtube.com...



[edit on 19/2/08 by Pellevoisin]



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 

sorry but you have not even come close to answering my question as to why all these people are mistaken/wrong

instead your going on about a mongoose????

why are so many professional and others making these claims??
are they all crazy?



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by scientist
 


Ok, funny links, interesting read

I like how it says people get sick after they see a trail in the sky. Funny how that happens considering the jetstream (which has winds of over 200mph) doesnt actually affect small particles in the atmosphere. There is no evidence to suggest that analysis of the chemtrail spray was actually from a chemtrail either. The official lab report for this (which was posted on another thread, will see if I can find it) suggested that the samples taken had "no indication that they fell from a chemtrail"



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 05:03 PM
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To state that these are all simply contrails from jets is simply an error or a deliberate mistatement of fact.

There are Indirect, Semi-Direct, and Direct Aerosol Air Campaigns going on throughout the world usually functioning under the aegis of a university or a governmental 'environmental' agency. Here is one such link of which one can find many on internet search engings:

acrf-campaign.arm.gov...


[edit on 19/2/08 by Pellevoisin]



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by Pellevoisin
 


Yes, effects of aerosols on clouds. Where in the article does it say that the aerosols are chemicals being sprayed from jets?

Aerosols like CFC's and their effects on the environment are always being studied. Ever heard of the Kyoto protocal? As long as you have large CFC producing countries like the USA and Australia (we are so naughty) refusing to sign the treaty, there will always be adverse effects on the climate



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by Maya432
why are so many professional and others making these claims??
are they all crazy?


Well this is probably not the best way to say it, but yes they're all crazy.


Seriously though, if something has a proven cause and decades of research and hard science confirms it, then it doesn't matter how many websites make the claim it's really something mysterious, they're ALL wrong. If you take a close look at all the sites you linked to, there isn't a single real "professional" making the claims.

We've had contrails and consistent contrails and contrails that make clouds, since they first invented the turbine engine. When I see a lot of them I don't think it's a conspiracy, I think it's winter.



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe

Originally posted by Maya432
why are so many professional and others making these claims??
are they all crazy?


We've had contrails and consistent contrails and contrails that make clouds, since they first invented the turbine engine. When I see a lot of them I don't think it's a conspiracy, I think it's winter.


Good reply. I agree, for evryone of those so called "professionals" there are hundreds and thousands that disagree

Dont forget contrails can occur anytime of the year. It doesnt matter how cold it is on the ground, it all depends on the upper atmosphere temperature and the moisture content



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 05:50 PM
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ok
my next question

what about in the heat of the summer?
will we still see contrails that stay and spread out?





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