Originally posted by pavlovsdog
Please Dr Love, as a mod, we need better from you before this board falls deeper into mediocrity. This very topic has been discussed in all over ATS. It disheartens me to see a Mod 'accepting ignorance' and simply regurgitating messages 'as seen on the 700 club'

Let me start by saying that when I was chosen to be a mod, that title did not come with all the secrets of the universe. I should have stated it as my opinion and not so matter of fact. I've revised my original post to fix this discrepancy. That being said, if there's a lunatic fringe, and I believe there is, I'm probably the mod closest to it.

Originally posted by pavlovsdog
In 1904 while in Egypt Crowley wrote or was 'the recipient of', "the Book of the Law' which was shortly established as the basis for the religion/philosophy of Thelema. In 1938 Bishop Federico Tolli authored a book instructing Christians how to regard this 'new thought'. Tolli concluded that Thelema is a dialectical consequence of Christianity. Tolli sees Crowley as a failed talented artist, but not as a "Satanist". The merit and contribution of bishop Tolli to studies of Crowley lies in the fact that it was he who first expressed that the genuine meaning and idea of Thelema does not necessarily contradict the teachings of Jesus, as Crowley himself affirmed.

I don't care what Bishop Federico Tolli thought, my gut tells me Crowley was a satanist, and I always go with my gut. The beast deceives, that's all it does.

Peace

[edit on 19-2-2008 by Dr Love]

Originally posted by pavlovsdog

Originally posted by Dr Love
Aleister Crowley was a satanist.

Care to substantiate this or are you just pulling this statement out of the aether? Perhaps you are just repeating what you have heard from anti crowley teachings.

Crowley was not:

1.a follower of the works of Anton LeVey, author of 'the satanic bible'
2. a follower of the Temple of Set

That's misleading. LaVey was a follower of Crowley. The Satanic Bible was written aftrer Crowleys death.

Crowley certainly did not revere or worship any 'dark entity' as his God. In fact thru many of his writing he decries the very existance of 'the devil'.

You spin it however you want the man named himself "the Beast666"

In 1904 while in Egypt Crowley wrote or was 'the recipient of', "the Book of the Law' which was shortly established as the basis for the religion/philosophy of Thelema. In 1938 Bishop Federico Tolli authored a book instructing Christians how to regard this 'new thought'. Tolli concluded that Thelema is a dialectical consequence of Christianity. Tolli sees Crowley as a failed talented artist, but not as a "Satanist". The merit and contribution of bishop Tolli to studies of Crowley lies in the fact that it was he who first expressed that the genuine meaning and idea of Thelema does not necessarily contradict the teachings of Jesus, as Crowley himself affirmed.

What a load of lies and deception!

Crowleys law

Do what thou wilt, let that be the whole of the law

Jesus law

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'There is no commandment greater than these."

Oh please!!!!!

i want to know more about seeing this interdemensional being while tripping on DMT. . . i have also see something that resembles this being high on dmt, although, not quite. . . but the painting is rather vague in character,i saw a magnificent being, with a huge head, (no veins running thru it) and big grey alien type eyes, altho it had a full nose, and a regular mouth with a huge smile. . . but what i saw, and this figure both resemble a grey alien somewhat i guess? ( from pictures i have seen) and the being smiled, and touched my cheeks, after coming down some 20-30 minutes later, i kept talking about this being that touched me? pretty weird, ide like to know more about this being people see on dmt. . . and links? i cant seem to find anything. . . that isn't straight up crazy. . (and most have to do with ayuasca sp? not dmt. . .

Originally posted by pavlovsdog

Originally posted by Dr Love
Aleister Crowley was a satanist.

Care to substantiate this or are you just pulling this statement out of the aether? Perhaps you are just repeating what you have heard from anti crowley teachings.

Crowley was not:

1.a follower of the works of Anton LeVey, author of 'the satanic bible'
2. a follower of the Temple of Set


Crowley certainly did not revere or worship any 'dark entity' as his God. In fact thru many of his writing he decries the very existance of 'the devil'.

In 1904 while in Egypt Crowley wrote or was 'the recipient of', "the Book of the Law' which was shortly established as the basis for the religion/philosophy of Thelema. In 1938 Bishop Federico Tolli authored a book instructing Christians how to regard this 'new thought'. Tolli concluded that Thelema is a dialectical consequence of Christianity. Tolli sees Crowley as a failed talented artist, but not as a "Satanist". The merit and contribution of bishop Tolli to studies of Crowley lies in the fact that it was he who first expressed that the genuine meaning and idea of Thelema does not necessarily contradict the teachings of Jesus, as Crowley himself affirmed.


Please Dr Love, as a mod, we need better from you before this board falls deeper into mediocrity. This very topic has been discussed in all over ATS. It disheartens me to see a Mod 'accepting ignorance' and simply regurgitating messages 'as seen on the 700 club'

---------------------------------------

As for the painting, I'm going to take a jump off the pier and postulate that it is a portrait of Aiwass.





[edit on 19-2-2008 by pavlovsdog]

Regardless of how far you try to disassociate Crowley from Satanism, he lead a very dark life. One can lead a dark life and still be under the influence of Satan, without even venturing into agreements with books, etc.

I am convinced of the Mod's conclusion and see the sketch as an extension of that dark side and what he encountered via his association with it.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

That's misleading. LaVey was a follower of Crowley. The Satanic Bible was written aftrer Crowleys death.

You are correct. Some of what Levey wrote was based on some basterdized ideas taken from Crowley. He also took from Ayn Rand, Nietzsche, H. L. Mencken, and Jack London. Does that make them all Satanists as well? Jim Jones based some of his teachings on Christ. It is false logic to say that because LeVay based some of his book on Crowley, that makes Crowley a Satanist.

Crowleys law

Do what thou wilt, let that be the whole of the law

Why is it that everyone likes to quote the first law of Thelema but they forget the second Law of Thelema? It is only by the use of BOTH these laws that truth is revealed. I'll repost them for your edification

* "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" (AL I:40) and
* "Love is the law, love under will" (AL I:57)

Jesus law

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'There is no commandment greater than these."

Perhaps you should think about both those laws. There is certainly nothing Evil or Satanic about the Law of Thelema. A Christian follows gods will, a Thelemite follows his own will. A satanist would follow satans will.



[edit on 19-2-2008 by pavlovsdog] trying to fix nested quotations

[edit on 19-2-2008 by pavlovsdog]

[edit on 19-2-2008 by pavlovsdog]

i have a book about jack parsons called Strange Angel. i have yet to read it.

also, i was under the impression Crowley called himself the beast666 because of his mother. she was heavily religious and thought of him as a nuisance and referred to him as "the beast".

from wikipedia,

When he was a child, his constant rebellious behaviour displeased his mother to such an extent she would chastise him by calling him "The Beast" (from the Book of Revelation), an epithet that Crowley would later adopt for himself.

also, no one has seemed to mention this. ive seen more than a few of crowley's paintings and drawings and i wouldnt consider him a "talented artist". so, its likely he just sucked at rendering the human form on canvas.

[
He allegedly opened a portal using his mind and a mirror, in a process similar to what is today called channeling. He considered it to be of inter dimensional origin.

I'm not trying to be trite here but, I'd say if he was using a mirror and quite possibly hallucinogenic drugs -it's him. Mirrors had a lot of distortion in them at the time, throw in drugs and there you go. It's inter dimensional as in between his ears.

Originally posted by pavlovsdog
Perhaps you should think about both those laws. There is certainly nothing Evil or Satanic about the Law of Thelema. A Christian follows gods will, a Thelemite follows his own will. A satanist would follow satans will.

Ok that took all of 10 seconds to think about...

Law of Thelema - all about self - self serving, vanity

Law of Jesus - all about God & others. self sacrificing, humility

Plus the fact Thelema violates the 10 commandments

-sex magick - adultery - fornication

-idolatry Thelema uses Egyptian Gods (fallen angels)

The fact you try to argue that it's compatible with Jesus shows either how deceived you are, or how determined you are to deceive.

I think and hope it's the former. Was Crowley a happy person, didn't Heroin become his real God?

Satan's will Is very simply to deceive you and have you be all about self. He doesn't care if you recognize him at all, just as long as you do not recognize Jesus. It's not your mothers fault! It was out of her power. She couldn't do it right the first time. You do need to be born again.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Law of Thelema - all about self - self serving, vanity

Law of Jesus - all about God & others. self sacrificing, humility

Plus the fact Thelema violates the 10 commandments

-sex magick - adultery - fornication

I dont remember sex magick or fornication being mentioned in the 10 Commandments. Could you please point them out? Furthermore I'm not sure how Thelema violates the commandment regarding adultery. No where in The Book of the Law does it say to have sex with 'another mans wife'.

idolatry Thelema uses Egyptian Gods (fallen angels)

The Gods in 'The Book of the Law" (the Thelemic 'bible' if you will) are Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit. I challange you to prove that these are Eqyptian. The Book of the Law was given to Crowley while he was in Eqypt but only fuzzy logic would require those gods to be egyptian.

Wow, for someone who earlier professed to have studied Crowley your information is very off base. I'm guessing that you 'studied Crawley' in the sense that you listened to heavy metal, did drugs, and experiemented with popular notions of the 'occult and black magic'. Sounds like you were decieved, not by THelema, but by something else.

The fact you try to argue that it's compatible with Jesus shows either how deceived you are, or how determined you are to deceive.

Your argument seems to be - if it's not worshiping Jesus, it's Satanic

I think and hope it's the former. Was Crowley a happy person, didn't Heroin become his real God?

Addiction is a horrible thing. Know any Christians that have ever been addicted?