Did Aleister Crowley Paint a Grey in 1900?

Originally posted by pavlovsdog
Please Dr Love, as a mod, we need better from you before this board falls deeper into mediocrity. This very topic has been discussed in all over ATS. It disheartens me to see a Mod 'accepting ignorance' and simply regurgitating messages 'as seen on the 700 club'

Let me start by saying that when I was chosen to be a mod, that title did not come with all the secrets of the universe. I should have stated it as my opinion and not so matter of fact. I've revised my original post to fix this discrepancy. That being said, if there's a lunatic fringe, and I believe there is, I'm probably the mod closest to it.

Originally posted by pavlovsdog
In 1904 while in Egypt Crowley wrote or was 'the recipient of', "the Book of the Law' which was shortly established as the basis for the religion/philosophy of Thelema. In 1938 Bishop Federico Tolli authored a book instructing Christians how to regard this 'new thought'. Tolli concluded that Thelema is a dialectical consequence of Christianity. Tolli sees Crowley as a failed talented artist, but not as a "Satanist". The merit and contribution of bishop Tolli to studies of Crowley lies in the fact that it was he who first expressed that the genuine meaning and idea of Thelema does not necessarily contradict the teachings of Jesus, as Crowley himself affirmed.

I don't care what Bishop Federico Tolli thought, my gut tells me Crowley was a satanist, and I always go with my gut. The beast deceives, that's all it does.

Peace

[edit on 19-2-2008 by Dr Love]

Originally posted by pavlovsdog

Originally posted by Dr Love
Aleister Crowley was a satanist.

Care to substantiate this or are you just pulling this statement out of the aether? Perhaps you are just repeating what you have heard from anti crowley teachings.

Crowley was not:

1.a follower of the works of Anton LeVey, author of 'the satanic bible'
2. a follower of the Temple of Set

That's misleading. LaVey was a follower of Crowley. The Satanic Bible was written aftrer Crowleys death.

Crowley certainly did not revere or worship any 'dark entity' as his God. In fact thru many of his writing he decries the very existance of 'the devil'.

You spin it however you want the man named himself "the Beast666"

In 1904 while in Egypt Crowley wrote or was 'the recipient of', "the Book of the Law' which was shortly established as the basis for the religion/philosophy of Thelema. In 1938 Bishop Federico Tolli authored a book instructing Christians how to regard this 'new thought'. Tolli concluded that Thelema is a dialectical consequence of Christianity. Tolli sees Crowley as a failed talented artist, but not as a "Satanist". The merit and contribution of bishop Tolli to studies of Crowley lies in the fact that it was he who first expressed that the genuine meaning and idea of Thelema does not necessarily contradict the teachings of Jesus, as Crowley himself affirmed.

What a load of lies and deception!

Crowleys law

Do what thou wilt, let that be the whole of the law

Jesus law

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'There is no commandment greater than these."

Oh please!!!!!

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

To the reply by Pavlovsdog, Whatever spin you put on it he called himself "the Beast666"

Again, you are confining yourself to a very small 'worldview' and actually falling into a common fallacy. Crowley used this moniker for several reasons

1. Crowley was a zen buddist. This explains Crowley's tendency to want to 'shock' people
2. Crowley had a great distaste not for Christanity, but for Christians. His use of the 'beast666' non de plume dovetails this and reason 1 nicely
3. The true nature of this moniker deals with the Jewish Kaballah

In the Cabalistic Tree of Life, spheres are traditionally numbered from the Crown Chakra-Kether downwards. The Heart chakra-Tiphareth is numbered 6 in this pattern. Each sphere has a magickal square. The square for Tiphareth-sun-Heart chakra is constructed by using its number 6: A square with 6 columns and 6 rows, or 6 × 6 = 36 sub-squares. Then the numbers 1 through 36 are placed in these 36 boxes so that each row or column adds up to 111. Thus the total value of the square of the sun is 666 - the Solar Logos. Six hundred sixty-six is 18 times 37. Thus the 36 Tsaddiks maintain the planetary grid which grounds the solar-666 force which is Christing Gaia. In Cabala, the term which describes the work of the Tsaddiks, Tiqqun, also has the value 666. Tiqqun means the translation of all matter into Union with the Immortal Frequencies of the Divine - this brings us back to our theme of Communion. For True Communion always has as its Divine Purpose the Total Transformation of Matter in a Way that Glorifies Aliveness, Liberty, Light & Love. This is forever the Work of the Heart Master.

source


here is an example of the Sun Square


In 1934 Crowley told a Judge, while under oath, that 'Beast666' was not a reference to anything in the book of Revelation. He told the court that the number 666 is the number of the sun and that if it pleased the court they could call him 'little sunshine'

In conclusion I leave you with this; Just because something in your small view of the world is defined in one way, does not mean that is the true meaning of the word or phrase. Crowley chose this name for many reasons, one of them to mock people, another to shock people. It is only upon actual study of the man and his beliefs that the true secrets can become uncovered. Much of Crowleys writings and teachings are this way. Take nothing that Crowley wrote at face value. Everything is hidden in numerology, alchemy and the Kabballah.

i want to know more about seeing this interdemensional being while tripping on '___'. . . i have also see something that resembles this being high on dmt, although, not quite. . . but the painting is rather vague in character,i saw a magnificent being, with a huge head, (no veins running thru it) and big grey alien type eyes, altho it had a full nose, and a regular mouth with a huge smile. . . but what i saw, and this figure both resemble a grey alien somewhat i guess? ( from pictures i have seen) and the being smiled, and touched my cheeks, after coming down some 20-30 minutes later, i kept talking about this being that touched me? pretty weird, ide like to know more about this being people see on dmt. . . and links? i cant seem to find anything. . . that isn't straight up crazy. . (and most have to do with ayuasca sp? not dmt. . .

reply to post by pavlovsdog


I have studied him. I used to walk that side, until I wised up. His Gods & Egypt's Gods for that matter were the Fallen Angels.

Funny how with all his knowledge and occult powers he died a miserable heroin addict.

Aleister Crowley died of a respiratory infection in a Hastings boarding house on 1 December 1947 at the age of 72.[45] He had been addicted to heroin after being prescribed morphine for his asthma and bronchitis many years prior.[46] He and his last doctor died within twenty-four hours of each other; newspapers would claim, in differing accounts, that Dr. Thomson had refused to continue his opiate prescription and that Crowley had put a curse on him.[47]

From en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by pavlovsdog

Originally posted by Dr Love
Aleister Crowley was a satanist.

Care to substantiate this or are you just pulling this statement out of the aether? Perhaps you are just repeating what you have heard from anti crowley teachings.

Crowley was not:

1.a follower of the works of Anton LeVey, author of 'the satanic bible'
2. a follower of the Temple of Set


Crowley certainly did not revere or worship any 'dark entity' as his God. In fact thru many of his writing he decries the very existance of 'the devil'.

In 1904 while in Egypt Crowley wrote or was 'the recipient of', "the Book of the Law' which was shortly established as the basis for the religion/philosophy of Thelema. In 1938 Bishop Federico Tolli authored a book instructing Christians how to regard this 'new thought'. Tolli concluded that Thelema is a dialectical consequence of Christianity. Tolli sees Crowley as a failed talented artist, but not as a "Satanist". The merit and contribution of bishop Tolli to studies of Crowley lies in the fact that it was he who first expressed that the genuine meaning and idea of Thelema does not necessarily contradict the teachings of Jesus, as Crowley himself affirmed.


Please Dr Love, as a mod, we need better from you before this board falls deeper into mediocrity. This very topic has been discussed in all over ATS. It disheartens me to see a Mod 'accepting ignorance' and simply regurgitating messages 'as seen on the 700 club'

---------------------------------------

As for the painting, I'm going to take a jump off the pier and postulate that it is a portrait of Aiwass.





[edit on 19-2-2008 by pavlovsdog]

Regardless of how far you try to disassociate Crowley from Satanism, he lead a very dark life. One can lead a dark life and still be under the influence of Satan, without even venturing into agreements with books, etc.

I am convinced of the Mod's conclusion and see the sketch as an extension of that dark side and what he encountered via his association with it.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

That's misleading. LaVey was a follower of Crowley. The Satanic Bible was written aftrer Crowleys death.

You are correct. Some of what Levey wrote was based on some basterdized ideas taken from Crowley. He also took from Ayn Rand, Nietzsche, H. L. Mencken, and Jack London. Does that make them all Satanists as well? Jim Jones based some of his teachings on Christ. It is false logic to say that because LeVay based some of his book on Crowley, that makes Crowley a Satanist.

Crowleys law

Do what thou wilt, let that be the whole of the law

Why is it that everyone likes to quote the first law of Thelema but they forget the second Law of Thelema? It is only by the use of BOTH these laws that truth is revealed. I'll repost them for your edification

* "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" (AL I:40) and
* "Love is the law, love under will" (AL I:57)

Jesus law

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'There is no commandment greater than these."

Perhaps you should think about both those laws. There is certainly nothing Evil or Satanic about the Law of Thelema. A Christian follows gods will, a Thelemite follows his own will. A satanist would follow satans will.



[edit on 19-2-2008 by pavlovsdog] trying to fix nested quotations

[edit on 19-2-2008 by pavlovsdog]

[edit on 19-2-2008 by pavlovsdog]

In my research on subject this I uncovered something else really interesting. A NASA connection. Crowley started a little Thelema cult OTO. For the leader of the American version he picked NASA rocket scientist Jack Parsons. Jack Parsons and L Ron Hubbard (pre scientology) were in cahoots in the endeavor to further expand the dimensional portal that Crowley opened. This creature Lam came from that portal. A cult developed in the 1960s that worshiped the Lam creature in the picture.

OTO Cult Documents


As a side note L Ron Hubbard stole money form Jack Parsons to publish his Dianetics book. (Tom Cruise what are you doing?) Jack Parsons sued him court and won. Jack Parsons did rituals to the God "Pan" when he worked on his Rocket Fuel for NASA. He died in a chemical explosion in his basement lab.

Truth is stranger than fiction.

i have a book about jack parsons called Strange Angel. i have yet to read it.

also, i was under the impression Crowley called himself the beast666 because of his mother. she was heavily religious and thought of him as a nuisance and referred to him as "the beast".

from wikipedia,

When he was a child, his constant rebellious behaviour displeased his mother to such an extent she would chastise him by calling him "The Beast" (from the Book of Revelation), an epithet that Crowley would later adopt for himself.

also, no one has seemed to mention this. ive seen more than a few of crowley's paintings and drawings and i wouldnt consider him a "talented artist". so, its likely he just sucked at rendering the human form on canvas.

[
He allegedly opened a portal using his mind and a mirror, in a process similar to what is today called channeling. He considered it to be of inter dimensional origin.

I'm not trying to be trite here but, I'd say if he was using a mirror and quite possibly hallucinogenic drugs -it's him. Mirrors had a lot of distortion in them at the time, throw in drugs and there you go. It's inter dimensional as in between his ears.

Originally posted by pavlovsdog
Perhaps you should think about both those laws. There is certainly nothing Evil or Satanic about the Law of Thelema. A Christian follows gods will, a Thelemite follows his own will. A satanist would follow satans will.

Ok that took all of 10 seconds to think about...

Law of Thelema - all about self - self serving, vanity

Law of Jesus - all about God & others. self sacrificing, humility

Plus the fact Thelema violates the 10 commandments

-sex magick - adultery - fornication

-idolatry Thelema uses Egyptian Gods (fallen angels)

The fact you try to argue that it's compatible with Jesus shows either how deceived you are, or how determined you are to deceive.

I think and hope it's the former. Was Crowley a happy person, didn't Heroin become his real God?

Satan's will Is very simply to deceive you and have you be all about self. He doesn't care if you recognize him at all, just as long as you do not recognize Jesus. It's not your mothers fault! It was out of her power. She couldn't do it right the first time. You do need to be born again.

reply to post by Bigwhammy



Terrence Mckenna called the beings that people see on '___' "self transforming machine elves." His belief being that they are inter-dimensional beings and that high doses of '___' (which your brain produces naturally) can put you in whatever realm/dimension they exist in.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
In my research on subject this I uncovered something else really interesting. A NASA connection. Crowley started a little Thelema cult OTO. For the leader of the American version he picked NASA rocket scientist Jack Parsons. Jack Parsons and L Ron Hubbard (pre scientology) were in cahoots in the endeavor to further expand the dimensional portal that Crowley opened. This creature Lam came from that portal. A cult developed in the 1960s that worshiped the Lam creature in the picture.

OTO Cult Documents

* Crowley did not 'form a little Thelema Cult OTO'. The OTO, Ordo Templi Orientis was founded before 1902 e.v. by Karl Kellner and Theodore Reuss in Germany.
* The OTO is not in itself a cult, by any definition of the word.
* Jack Parsons was not chosen to 'lead the american version'. Jack Parson assumed the leadership of Agape Lodge#2 in 1946, following Wilfred Smith. Yes, this was at Crowleys behest, but this was not to establish 'the oto cult in america'. Agape Lodge#2 held it's first meeting in 1935 is southern california.
* The Cult of Lam was founded in 1987 according to the very link you provided. Not in the 60's
* This Cult of Lam was not formed by crowley, not sanctioned by crowley and is not recognized by most parts of the OTO



[edit on 19-2-2008 by pavlovsdog]

reply to post by pavlovsdog


Ok you got me! You do know you're Satanic history better than me. I think I did pretty good right off the top of my head.

'But though we, or a heavenly being (Alien or Lam or whatever) teach any other gospel to you than that which we have taught, let him be accursed."
Galatians 1:8

Why did Paul feel the need to address the issue of a heavenly being teaching another Gospel?



[edit on 2/19/2008 by Bigwhammy]

the LAM depiction is a penis head and exterior female sexual organs in copulation. the guy believed a gate to another dimension was opened via sex magic, so the image is of just that. a being created by sex magic. lol
it's just a drawing of human body parts.

here's an interview i did with a former member of the OTO

The Hooded Man
www.thestargates.com...

[edit on 19-2-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Law of Thelema - all about self - self serving, vanity

Law of Jesus - all about God & others. self sacrificing, humility

Plus the fact Thelema violates the 10 commandments

-sex magick - adultery - fornication

I dont remember sex magick or fornication being mentioned in the 10 Commandments. Could you please point them out? Furthermore I'm not sure how Thelema violates the commandment regarding adultery. No where in The Book of the Law does it say to have sex with 'another mans wife'.

idolatry Thelema uses Egyptian Gods (fallen angels)

The Gods in 'The Book of the Law" (the Thelemic 'bible' if you will) are Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit. I challange you to prove that these are Eqyptian. The Book of the Law was given to Crowley while he was in Eqypt but only fuzzy logic would require those gods to be egyptian.

Wow, for someone who earlier professed to have studied Crowley your information is very off base. I'm guessing that you 'studied Crawley' in the sense that you listened to heavy metal, did drugs, and experiemented with popular notions of the 'occult and black magic'. Sounds like you were decieved, not by THelema, but by something else.

The fact you try to argue that it's compatible with Jesus shows either how deceived you are, or how determined you are to deceive.

Your argument seems to be - if it's not worshiping Jesus, it's Satanic

I think and hope it's the former. Was Crowley a happy person, didn't Heroin become his real God?

Addiction is a horrible thing. Know any Christians that have ever been addicted?

reply to post by undo


Undo I know you believe that stargates are real I do too. I think the tower of Babel is an example. Are you poking fun at Crowley & Parsons portal because of the sex or do you think it is completely spurious?

I find it really amazing that L Ron Hubbard was in on this portal as well. Does Scientology have "portals"? I wonder if Tom Cruise talks to Lam?

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by undo

 

Undo I know you believe that stargates are real I do too. I think the tower of Babel is an example. Are you poking fun at Crowley & Parsons portal because of the sex or do you think it is completely spurious?

I find it really amazing that L Ron Hubbard was in on this portal as well. Does Scientology have "portals"? I wonder if Tom Cruise talks to Lam?

listen to the interview, if you haven't already. i think L.Ron evolved his ideas over time, so today's scientology probably doesn't follow the OTO guidelines, including opening portals. After his OTO involvement and departure from it, he taught something like, we are inhabited by alien spirit beings that make us sick and in order to get well, you have to exercise them out via various things related to psychoanalyzing yourself or something like that. So the L. Ron OTO belief spoken of in the interview, is not the same belief of L.Ron that ended up forming scientology. It was apparently a different time in his life, because he eventually swore off the use of hallucinogens and so forth, and that you should be kind to your body by eating right and so forth. just to be fair. i don't agree with some of his premises, obviously, but i don't think it would be fair to mischaracterize what he teaches the scientology folks.

reply to post by pavlovsdog


In Hebrew what gets translated Adultrey covers most sexual sin. Which is anything outside of marriage.

It's a given that it includes when you use sex to to open satanic portals to commune with Fallen Angels.

You actually think you can make a case that sex magick is compatible with Judaism or Christianity?

I am going to make it real simple for you. My argument is exactly what you accuse me of.

If it's not worshipping Jesus it's Satanic.

I believe the Bible.

I started a similar thread about a week ago here: www.abovetopsecret.com

I put it in skunkworks because I started connecting dots for fun, so i realize some of the stuff I presented is a bit fringe, far-out and wacky.

Comm12 out