Religion is the great evil of mankind.

reply to post by WraothAscendant


Haha...well any excuse to rant

I cant believe people still believe in god. 1liner call the mods

[edit on 22-2-2008 by xHADEEZx]

Originally posted by xHADEEZx
I cant believe people still believe in god. 1liner call the mods

God doesn't believe people still refuse to see God.

I can't believe it's not butter!!!!!

Silliness at this early hour is fun.


But in all seriousness.
I can't believe some people's ego.

[edit on 22-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]

So is Religion the great evil of mankind? Sorry I've been gone for a couple of days so I'm not sure where we are at with this topic, but from the last few post's I'm not clear if we ever resolved this or not. lol However from what I've read so far it seems like this discussion is more about Christianity vs Atheism. No offence to either of you, but there are a lot of us out here who don't follow either of these philosophies. I agree that any organization is vulnerable to the greedy desires of leaders who use it's principles for their self interests. However, I do think that organized religion has it's purpose. With it, ppl of like minds come together to ponder lifes mysteries, and out of that change occures, growth happens, and those ppl find happiness and acceptance within there own group. As you well know, there are religions that don't encourage mindless following. Buhdism, from what I've read, encourages it's ppl to be patient, ponder existance as it happens around them, and co-exist in harmony with the rest of the world. Wicca, encourages free thinking and action limited by only one rule, the Rede - Harm none, do what you will. etc... I am very aware that in all religions there are those that would distort it's fundimental beliefs and take that religion to the extreme, but does that really make the religion evil? Or should the topic read, Man the great evil of religion?

since your name has michael in it i would ezpect you are muslim???

What this all comes down to is humans being their own worst enemy. All the atrocities started in the name of religion, politics, race, money, and land were all instigated by humans. Like Wraoth stated, it's not these things that are dangerous in and of themselves. It's when people use such things as a red herring or motivation for their own greed, cruelty, or attempt to control another. But as another posted rightfully stated, religion is the most serious manipulator because 'winning points for eternity' is more serious than anything else listen above in the minds of man.

"Good" and "Evil" are biased perceptions, depending on the one who is doing good or being evil. What is really going on is a trinity, a cause & effect.

Religion does distort spiritual messages by focusing more on the act of going to church to seek god. When really the kingdom of god is all around us and within us. Therefore, religion is obsolete as we all have the capability of being in touch with "god", which I consider a state of mind or a state of being.

I find no need for Religion, but my mother does. I am right or am I wrong? Is she right or is she wrong? The answer to this, is again found in the "trinity" state of mind as opposed to the "polarity" state. Both of us are correct as, we've found our own seemingly unique ways to become aware of what religion is trying to teach, spiritual consciousness. Hold on, thats not always true, but thats what religion should be about.

You can always see that some people have grown faster spiritually than others. But that awakening is good for the world, for example when one monkey discovers a new and better way to something, like a new place to find bananas all of the sudden other monkeys discover it as well because we all are sharing a "collective consciousness" and once we realize this state of mind you'll see that religion serves its purpose for those who need it.

Religion in some ways acts as a test of the mind and soul, to see if you can see through it's sometimes uselessness, but I cannot say it is useless because since we are all made of the same universal-molecular energy, and while some of us may have become aware of "gods kingdom" that does not discredit religion. So what I'm saying is that there are different levels of reality and spiritual growth. Some may grow faster and not need religion and enter the higher states of mind, while other younger souls need direction before they realize the spiritual world right in front and within them.

I used to be very upset with Christianity, as i thought that it was trying to hide the truth or the "nature of mind", the spiritual consciousness that religion idolizes. Thats the big difference, one person may go to church their whole lives praying to Jesus to enter the kingdom of god after they die, while others such as myself (who are not religious) actually realize the state of mind that others pray for. Those like myself who live and have a real spiritual experience feel for those who have not yet entered this peaceful state of mind, that sees the connection between all religions and knows that leading by example, doing good things with a good cause, will in effect continue to assist in the growth of the other sentient beings. I am no longer upset with religion, I still think it serves a purpose, one that does not benefit me, but others. Instead of being upset I am full of joy, which I hope radiates outward and leads to the spiritual awakening of others.

Originally posted by vision
I am no longer upset with religion, I still think it serves a purpose, one that does not benefit me, but others. Instead of being upset I am full of joy, which I hope radiates outward and leads to the spiritual awakening of others.

I wanted to correct myself here, where I say it does not benefit me, because the me I spoke of was my body, but in reality "me" is far more vast than a single human body, me is all of us. So religion does benefit me in that sense, but I also benefit "me", too.

Originally posted by danx


You are right on the last part though. Evolution is the only thing for which we have evidence.

Evidence of what? that man came from magilla gorilla?

Evolution comes up with junk science so much it is laughable. You find a tooth from a pig and build an entire Piltdown man from it and pass it off as evidence with as much arrogance and smug self righteousness as you are now. Evolution is as biased as its atheist religion supporting it.
if you believe in atheism then you, generally, have to believe in a myriad of fortuitous accidents that bring about the universe and everything in it, including life. Thus, religious faith is infused into the atheism’s evolutionary concept no different then you say Christianity would be in intelligent design

It's obvious that what should be taught in public schools is the accepted scientific consensus and not religiously biased theories. If you don't like it, you can blame something that I believe is called the First Amendment and separation of church and state.

Well then that should include Atheism and is it any wonder that every damn time I get into one of these discussions about evolution, they just happen to be a person whose religion is Atheist.

I'm sorry but atheism is not a religion. .

I'll present three basic reasons for claiming that atheism is a religion:
1 - There are some atheists that claim that atheism is a religion.
2 - The US government has ruled that atheism is legally considered a religion.
3 - Buddhism has been considered a religion for some 2,500 years and it is atheistic.

In 1977 in the court cases Theriault v. Silber and Malnak v. Yogi ruled that atheism is a religion. If you want to use court rulings as a defense such as church and state then I EXPECT you to observe same when it doesn't happen to agree with your opinion Now having proved that Atheism is in fact a religion, my assertions about Scientists with a an interest in using it to substantiate the belief their is No god, are as biased against such precepts as when the theory first started. The quotes I gave are just some of the great aggregation of the many statements indicative of such a bias moreover statements regarding "Chance" and Random this or that can be just as easily and accurately synonymous with the word LUCK.

Do I expect this to change your position?

Hell no, like Atheism has accused Religion for so long being dogma

Atheism's Dogma is clear, they are right and everyone else

is wrong.

No, Darwin does. A lot of religious people and creationists cherry pick Darwin's and Dawkins' quotes - which probably come from the habit of cherry picking passages of the Bible - to try and fit their beliefs, but it all comes down to this:

Darwin, Dawkins it makes no difference if you missed the point but as for cherry picking,, telling me it was Darwin supports my assertions with more credibility. I would also say that if anyone uses cherry picked parts of the bible to create convoluted discontextual interpretations of the Bible, it is Atheists.

If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. -- Darwin

And it hasn't since 1859. And his work only gets more credence the more we find about those fossil records you talked about, and the more we know about life.

Ok,, then tell me,, what do we know about life? what got it started? Then tell me why such negative mutations take so long to happen when every single breed of Dog coming from the wolf happened in just over a century.

Tell me why the latest discoveries about DNA suggest that ANY creature can be created simply by reorganizing it shattering the idea that we are relatives of Magilla Gorilla.

Tell me why the Great White shark a creature that has been unchanged in millions of years has not. The Alligator? Evolution is a dying science and is getting more and more to look like a pseudo science of Atheism every day. It is BUNK Ipso Facto. Most of the belief you have to have in that garbage is a bigger leap of faith then any religion I have ever heard of.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with these quotes, since it's well known that Dawkins, as with Darwin, doesn't believe that chance or luck had anything to do with it.

Exactly the reason I used the quote because apparently HE DOES think it THATS WHY HE USED THE PHRASE.

Make sense?

In fact, Evolution proves exactly the opposite. There is no chance or luck in evolution, only gradual and successive modifications and adaptations - natural selection.

No you are wrong and again I will cite the PBS documentary where the modifications for better adaptations in species of dogs proved the adaptations were already inherent in the DNA and did not need millions and millions and millions of years to find the best one by what could ONLY be a stroke of luck even if it were true.

If evolution would quit thinking this phenomena can't be true discarding it as bad evidence, then perhaps they could see that they are wrong but the ramifications for telling an atheist they are wrong would be a mass mental breakdown of some of the most deserving individuals the world has ever known.

Science does not have to disprove god's existence, since no one has proven that he does in the first place.

I am not asking science to prove what is already a fact to me, as usual it is Atheists using that same crap about burden of proof asking Christians to prove a thing Atheist's are determined NOT to believe.

You don't see Christians asking evolutionist to prove there is a God because we aren't that stupid as Atheists are. We know that unless you come as a child and unload all your scientific baggage you not only won't believe it YOU ARE DETERMINED NOT TO REGARDLESS OF THE FACTS.

This is why when you say you don't believe in supernatural things it is NO different then when I say I don't believe in evolution. Another words you don't have a subject who is listening in the spirit of cooperation but rather one in direct opposite opposing and determined competition.

Darwin, Dawkins and you, are all Atheists NOT because of what Science says although that helps support your belief because even the suggestion of a creator is considered OUT OF THE QUESTION PERIOD.

Ok, I can live with that but for some reason it isn't good enough for Atheists who continue to try to sell atheism through the guise of a science they have more faith in then many religious people I have ever met.

Got it?

- Con







[edit on 22-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

I agree,religion was not created by God,it was created by man.
The teachings of most religions seem to sway toward promoting consumerism and selfishness,whether intentional or not....

Be a good consumer,drive your shiny,fancy new car to church,buy some expensive clothes for your "sunday go to meetin" and impress your fellow sheeples...

Give money to the church so your pastor or whatever can live off of you and offer no real service other than parroting some mis-interpreted scripture,from which the meaning has been lost over time through mis-translation and manipulation.

I realised the flaws when I was becoming religious in the past.I had questions about things,such as,what if there is no god,and this is all there is.The religious teachings seem to tell people that if you lead a righteous life,and pay your taxes,work hard and help others,that you will be rewarded in the afterlife.

Why not strive to make this life better for everyone now,just in case there is nothing after?.

What if there is no afterlife?,if you do as the scriptures say,and they are wrong,you just fed a giant machine designed to sap your wealth and energy for nothing,so some people could live a parasitic existence off of the weak,like politicians and pastors and governments,while they really provide nothing of substance at all except some cutsie phrases words and proverbs etc etc etc.....

Your money would be better spent on seeing a guidance counselor who is a recovering crackhead,who understands what pain and loss and forgiveness are firsthand,than on a pampered,spoiled,arrogant little peon pastor or politician...they lie and do not know it ,they are the worst kind of sinners there are.

I am familiar with these arguments,I have had them with myself.I have come to the conclusion that faith and ignorance are like siblings,faith is for sheep,ignorance is why they are loyal to something they have never seen or touched or felt or tasted.

If you were to lead a life according to the religious teachings,most of which teach nearly the same things,what harm would there be in it?,probably not much,so you would be good to go either way.

If you lived your life according to the teachings,you would live such a selfless,happy and rewarding life,that you would not be worried about an afterlife,you would not be that selfish.

People worry about themselves too much nowadays.

God gave you the only thing you ever needed,that was a life,and a consciousness,a human brain,a mind.

Asking for more is just selfishness.

Human nature.

reply to post by Conspiriology


Con. I mostly agree with you.
Except.....................
This statement I erm..... think is rather false.

You don't see Christians asking evolutionist to prove there is a God because we aren't that stupid as Atheists are.

I think are stupid and intelligent people on both sides of the debate and anyone who forgets that is in danger of becoming what they perceive their enemies to be. Though I think it quite sad they even consider each other enemies and damn counter-productive at the end to boot.

We know that unless you come as a child and unload all your scientific baggage you not only won't believe it YOU ARE DETERMINED NOT TO REGARDLESS OF THE FACTS.

I really disagree with this one man.
After all remember what Hitler did with the youth of his nation? Research some of the left over Hitler Youth they would tell you.
Children's minds are a blank slate and are more receptive to indoctrination its a well known fact. Which is really what the whole what goes into education battle is ALL ABOUT, indoctrination for this or that position. Because once you get them young there is a strong chance they will stay.
Atheists want evolution because they feel it teaches children to be atheists.
Christians want Creative Design because they feel it teaches children to be Christian. All and all its a battle for the next generations mind.
Which I think is VERY wrong on the simple fact I think everyone should be allowed to make their own minds up without being indoctrinated with premade ideas.
Thusly the reason my daughter is being kept away from either side.
Til I feel she is ready to make a decision on her own as to what she will believe.

Just as a note,we have pushed this planet to near the limit as it is now,I think we will all know in a fairly short time if there is anything to this religion stuff.

Somehow,I think we will realise that the only saviour that will come,will come when we awake from our drunken consumerist,selfish slumber.

It will be us.

This world was once a place,where all you had to do was get off of your ass,and go get what you needed to survive.

It has been stolen from us,and is being sold back to us in bits and pieces for a profit.

If you cannot see this,you are blind.

They have eyes but they cannot see,has been said in these scriptures.

reply to post by chiponbothshoulders



I doubt anything will pull our butt's out the fire of our own making.
Though I do believe "something" is out there.

But that is why I am non-religious.
But that is also why I respect others right to be religious.
I am after all human and fallible.

I KNOW something is out there.

The more I learn,the less I know.

The less I know,the better for those who do know, to take advantage of me.

Depends on what it is you interpret as knowledge,most of the things people are taught today are useless garbage.

Things which make one a more productive head of livestock for the leaders,plantation owners,if you will...

Life is a lot simpler than most can imagine.

Imagine by John Lennon,powerful words set to music.

You can't truly appreciate anything,until you can appreciate nothing.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant


I really disagree with this one man.
After all remember what Hitler did with the youth of his nation? Research some of the left over Hitler Youth they would tell you.
Children's minds are a blank slate and are more receptive to indoctrination its a well known fact. Which is really what the whole what goes into education battle is ALL ABOUT, indoctrination for this or that position. Because once you get them young there is a strong chance they will stay.
Atheists want evolution because they feel it teaches children to be atheists.
Christians want Creative Design because they feel it teaches children to be Christian. All and all its a battle for the next generations mind.
Which I think is VERY wrong on the simple fact I think everyone should be allowed to make their own minds up without being indoctrinated with premade ideas.
Thusly the reason my daughter is being kept away from either side.
Til I feel she is ready to make a decision on her own as to what she will believe.

I didn't mean in the literal sense wraith lol. (stargate atlantis kind of wraith?)

As far as making up their minds, reading a bible story to my kids isn't indoctrination any more then reading them Jack in the beanstalk is teaching them they can climb there way to heaven. If I get asked about that, I am going to pass on what I believe.

I AM going to indoctrinate them about some things however and I don't give a rats patooty what you or anyone else thinks about it.

For example, looking both ways before crossing the street before they can make up their own mind about whether that is a good idea or not also. Now I realize that isn't what you meant but the way you took me to say "come as a child" isn't what I meant either.

I don't think kids have minds one molecule away from being an eggshell not saying that you are suggesting that, I think that argument is taken way too far and as long as science is going to be used for Atheism as a religion called evolution.

Then I am always going to have something to say about it. If they are MY kids Ill do what many parents are doing these days because of the crap they teach in public schools and Ill yank them out. Then join a tax revolt for having to pay for that school. Their are lots of ways to counter what I see as Atheisms agenda to rid the country and the world of Religion. I don't have a problem with religion until I see it being used like I see Atheists using science.

Whether you believe in it or not. I read Sam Harris, Hitchens, Dawkins etc,. and they would have the theists disqualified as being too dumb to hold the power of public office and see themselves as the intellectual elite.

When I say come as a child I mean according to scripture or unassuming innocent without pre-conceived prejudice or ideas.

I read your thread Science is a Religion where I can give many examples where those arguing with you were not reading your suppostions in the spirit of a child wanting to learn but as rigid adults with fixed opinions and a dogged determination NOT to listen to a thing you said. I get what you are about, at least to some extent (I was a HUGE X-files nut) I see Atheists as a huge group of Dana Scully's when she first got assigned to debunk mulder. Only THIS Scully is pms'ing 24/7 ,, like hitchens and dawkins are. hee hee

Hope that helps


- Con













[edit on 23-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

Here is something else you might consider interesting, I wish Xtrozero was here because he noticed the same thing about Atheists I do.

Ok, take you for instance saying "something is out there" there are threads on this forum filled with things I may not believe in but I NEVER make it my business to join every one of those threads to antagonize those who do. I don't bother to read up all I can googling for discrepancies I can use against them. The only time I can see some one doing that is when they are angry they lost an argument and they go out there and get the ammo they need in the form of what ever dissenting views from science or history they can and if they get off on that kind of thing they continue to do it.

I don't see most people doing that kind of waste of time unless it was some religious mission they were on. Well THAT's what I see Atheism doing all the time and it looks asinine to me. The leaders of this bunch of monkey desendants as they claim they are, tell them to scorn the religious, another words "rebuke" them. Is this not what they continue to complain about theists? Besides that I think it is absolutley hysterical a full grown man, a SCIENTIST for petes sake, would be so utterly immature to not only act that way but encourage others to,

Or his wannabe scientists, to act that way too.

They are like Scientologists or

Atheintologists.

- Con

[edit on 23-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by Incarnated
God says:

Seek and you shall find, knock and it will be open to you.

However Religious leaders would tell you that only the words and their peceptions and inturpetations of a singular religious text are they only thing truthworthy and true. Religious leaders would have you stay in ignorance, because it's easier to control your mind and tell you what it is you think you want to hear that way.

In the days that the christ walked the earth, he spoke aginst orginzed religion and then mankind makes several religious factors out of that.

When will mankind wake up and realize there's no easy road to rightiousness? When will religious fools wake up and realize they are being lied to by religious leaders?

I'm not stating that religious leaders are doing this with ill entent, but through their own ignrance.

Religion is the greatest evil of mankind.

Religion is define as a "grouping of peoples with the same or simular enough religious beliefs".

The very origin of the word is selfrightousness. It would have you believe a group knows the truth over another. LIES!!!

This is the greatest CONspiracie in "Religion".

What says you?

What say I, Oh, Incarnated?

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Which of those do you think is more difficult to carry out?

Is Religion evil? Surely, men of corrupt mind have indeed stained religion to the degree, that it appears the mere mention of the name, religion, leaves a bad taste in many peoples mouth. My, being one of them.

Far too many people through history have caused God's name to be blasphemed by the unbelieving, that I have to wonder who will be judged greater, the one's who blasphemed God or, the one's who caused others to blaspheme God?





[edit on 23-2-2008 by jdposey]

It is pointless to argue about religions, because you either have enough faith to be a believer, or you completely lack it.

Calling Religion evil simply because you lack faith is ignorant, spiteful, and downright slanderous. You speak as though you contain more knowledge than 2000 years of compiled testimony, writings, and teachings that emanated from those who sacrificed everything. Calling such teachings irrelevant and controlling goes on to showcase a complete lack of understanding. Here we have some of the greatest humanitarians the world has ever known, who gave up everything, their families security, their livelihoods, their social standings, so they could bring forth their messages allowing for a better standard of morals and life, and you treat them as though they are enslavers and greedy warmongers. They went through persecution, and execution to push forth an idea that you oh so conveniently now refer to as "irrelevant". I guess we should completely forget about their sacrifices, and in an attempt to excuse such inexcusable selfishness, we should label the idea as "evil". Labels always make it so much easier to ignore that which should be paid attention to.

This is precisely what is wrong with society today, everyone is so enveloped with themselves that they close their minds to the bigger picture. The actions and thoughts put forth by such an ideology reminds one of a once great civilization from long ago. This civilization went on to believe that any organization of religion was heresy against the state, and such moral standards were unacceptable. Completely unguided thoughts and actions were not only allowed, but downright encouraged in this civilization. This lead to severe corruption, as morals, selflessness, and high standards were thus thrown into the gutter along with the murder, mayhem, and violence that soon ensued. Leaders fell, boundaries collapsed, and the state became no more. This is the result of true evil, a lack of standards to which we must hold ourselves. This very evil collapsed the mighty Roman Empire, and seeing as current mentalities are relapsing in finding such historical lessons "irrelevant", is it only a limited matter of time before we follow suit?

reply to post by jdposey


FINNALLY!!! Thank you for moving this along....

You used the quote "Pure Religion..."

The greatest evil of mankind is "religions/relgion". I thought I made that clear enough but too many people can seem to get past words to find the meaning behind such words.

That a shame and I'm sure it is part of the great error.

At any rate, sure "Pure Religion" is not an evil, that is not to say YOU or any man knows what this "Pure Religion" is.

What is this "Pure Religion" asside from your religions of bullslnit?