Religion is the great evil of mankind.

reply to post by chromatico


One could easily make the case that communism simply replaced worship of a godlike being with... worship of a godlike being.

But that would tip over the ol' Christian meme that no wrong is ever done by Christians, and everything bad is the purview of atheists by default of rule #1.

reply to post by WraothAscendant


He was telling me about my post at the top of this page.
I was answering him. Evil is as evil does.

Religion is a spiritual expression of humans. It apparently fulfills a basic need that is at the core of humanity, and so we invent various outlets (different belief systems) to express this need. Because it is so basic to human nature it has been manipulated throughout the ages by various STATES or INDIVIDUAL agents to further their own interests. When the expression of religion is good, it is transcendental, and when it is bad there is no greater evil, because it turns good men into monsters.
Religion is transcendental in its MUSIC and ARCHITECTURE, and it is evil in its selfrighteousness. It can be used as a tool for selfimprovement, or as a tool of oppression. It does not require great intellect to feel its power, even the least accomplished among us can utilize it raise their self-esteem. IT IS A TOOL FOR GOOD OR EVIL.

reply to post by Ameneter


Mostly agreed. Except for this:

turns good men into monsters

They weren't good men/women if something is able to turn them into monsters.
The monster has to exist before it can be come the man/woman.

Monsters don't just spring up like some sorta tomato plant on supergro on steroids.

It seems to me like that such statements is still trying (on a smaller part) to put the blame anywhere but where it belongs. Which is on the person.

Originally posted by Ameneter
Religion is a spiritual expression of humans.

I think this quite straightforward statement is at the heart of the matter. Religion is not a physical entity. It is an expression, as Ameneter says. I can't help but feel that blaming religion is an easy way out for humans. The evils of mankind are caused by mankind's inherent greed and unpleasantnesses.

The point being, if you remove religion, you don't remove those unpleasantnesses, and you won't remove the evil. You'll just remove one of the excuses for it.

LW

reply to post by WraothAscendant


Are we now blaming the person and not religion? As humans we act on our beliefs. If our actions result in the death and oppression of others then it is evil, but religion can play the motivating force behind these actions. It is no good to claim that you believe and not act in accordance with your beliefs. That is why religion can make good men into monsters because they are led to believe that they are being true to their Faith.

The thing about religion is this...

You need air to breathe- we get our air
You need food and water to live- we eat and drink
Religion is not required to live...flat out
If it was truly important dont you think it would have been bred into our systems that we require it??? Like a hunger sort of thing. Religion was created by man thousands of years ago- the last thing I'm going to intrust my beliefs in is someone who lived thousands of years ago. If we all died and I left a book with stories and beliefs, starting a new religion, would a world thousands of years ahead of us read it and believe it? Religion is foolish. If there was a true religion- than why are there many religions? I used to be catholic...my family forced me into church and communion and all that jazz. I wasn't into it. I never felt that by being in a MAN MADE church that it did me any justice compared to if I was just sitting in my room, meditating. A bible is produced by a book company, yet treated as if its gold. Why because of whats in it? Stories that are purely fictional, offer no proof of reality, and seem to exist only to present false ideas in peoples heads about heaven and hell. It's utterly ridiculous. Being spiritual is the only way I feel close to "god". Its highly probable that there is one main creator or many creators so I am not against god. But the god I imagine is real is far different than the Christian, Catholic, Muslim, or whoever else's god. If god wanted you to praise him all day- he would force you to get down on your knees and pray. It would be bred into your mind- not forced into your mind by man. It makes me sick how far people go for religion. It brings wars, causes many conflicts, and is only furthering us more from Peace. I'm sure anyone with a hint of religion hates my guts at this point but know this. Right before the Roman empire was destroyed- People began to realize the same thing about religion. Divorces were also at an all time high. These are things that relate highly to our culture. Most kids I know- don't believe in religion and they have no reason to. Look at what it has done to the world. Nothing good has been done but everything has been done in the name of religion. I hate to sound like a scifi nut but Aliens are real and you must be crazy to think that they'd be worshipping a book about false stories and beliefs like we do. If people could grasp the idea that we are all from the same creator, universe, and etc. then maybe there'd be hope. But people are so wrapped up in religion that its blinding them to the REAL world. The real world is bigger than just Earth. Its universal. Knowledge of this planet is only about this planet. People need to grasp that there is life everywhere. I am not against people who believe what they believe- you have a right to and I fight for that right...but all I'm saying is- think for yourself instead of being told to because "its been passed down to you from generation to generation". Ghosts must be real, I think with all the UFO activity we can claim Aliens are real, and if you start thinking about life as a whole instead of just life on this planet- you'll realize there are bigger things than religion. Someone wrote those scripts- people followed them because they were too ignorant to think on their own- they've been passed down to you- some of you will change, some of you wont. In the end all I can hope is that the people I care for realize that there's more to life than some scripture and people going to "heaven and hell". Makes me sick....

This is what religion does...goodluck with religion when you have people as nuts as this woman.
www.youtube.com...

Watch this people, i assure you- your eyes will open.





[edit on 2/21/2008 by PimpyMcgibbins]

reply to post by PimpyMcgibbins


Haven't read most this thread have you?

Originally posted by Ameneter
Are we now blaming the person and not religion?

I think what Wrath is trying to say is that religion is not the only cause of evil although it is often used as a motivating force. Let's look at atheist countries. They aren't persecuting people in the name of atheism inasmuch as they are using communism as their driving force. Other atrocities are due to ethnic cleansing, class wars, land disputes, some form of political agenda, etc.

But it does not really come down to religion, racism, politics, or other motivation. It comes down to the people who hide behind such things as their 'excuse.' Of course there are lunatics that use religion for their cause or are even inspired by their religious beliefs. What he is saying is that 'religion' still doesn't kill people but the evil intentions in their own hearts.

reply to post by Ameneter


As I said earlier:

Intolerance is one of the diseases that infests humanity and all he does.
Greed is one of the the diseases that infests humanity and all he does.
Not religion or any other concept that mankind has created.
Because those concepts can and often are twisted for the purposes of the diseases that infest mankind.

And I mean disease not in the biological sense but of a general sense of malignancy you can't contract intolerance if you don't allow yourself to.

And by your view then every truly devout whatever is a homicidal madman.
After all supposedly they are taught to want to kill non-believers.
Otherwise EVERY believer would be as you say.
If religion truly caused the crap that goes on in this world.
Too bad that is the not case.
PEOPLE cause it.
Cause it through greed (for money/power).
Cause it through intolerance.
Religion is a concept that HAS been twisted for the above purposes but it is not the source of them.
Regardless how many people want to pretend it is so.
And seems to me they do so, so they can have their next great devil that must be destroyed.
Rather than looking within themselves and those around them for the problem.

It's easier to blame a whole camp of thems.

And exactamundo too Loneweasel.


reply to post by AshleyD


Exactamundo.
These lines are added for the simple fact I don't want to lose another 20 points.
And a one word positive response was all that was required.



[edit on 21-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Religion is the greatest evil because it offers the greatest reward. What's better than eternal life? So with that reward in mind, many people take on their faith just as they would take on a job, and they'll do things they don't want to do simply because they've been told this will get themselves the greatest reward.

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
So with that reward in mind, many people take on their faith just as they would take on a job, and they'll do things they don't want to do simply because they've been told this will get themselves the greatest reward.

Can you offer some specific examples of what people do that they wouldn't have wanted to do if it wasn't religion based? Let me know before I jump to any conclusions and we'll go on from there.

reply to post by AshleyD


You name it, someone's done it to try and get into heaven.

[edit on 21-2-2008 by ThePiemaker]

reply to post by ThePiemaker


Ok. I can think of things like human sacrifice but that is pretty much antiquated. I can think of killing for God but that is mainly limited to Islamic texts and even them Muslims dispute that doctrine. Judaism has some violence in their laws but even orthodox Jews don't go around stoning homosexuals or burning witches these days. Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. are actually peaceful if you look at the actual religious beliefs and not the people who corrupt the teachings, etc.

My faith teaches me love, respect for human life, not to lie or harm anyone else, etc. You're also implying, albeit unintentionally, that someone like an atheist must have no morals because morals are based in religion. The reason someone wouldn't lie, kill, cheat, or cause harm is because they do it out of expectation for religious reward.

So what it all comes down to remains the same, both good and bad: people. There are really only a handful of main religions that instruct their followers to commit what would we describe in this day and age as atrocities.

Religion isn't the cause of evil, it is simply the greatest reason to do evil because it offers the greatest reward. There are very few hoops you can't get people to jump through in the name of religion.

reply to post by Incarnated


I think that seeking simple answers to the great mysteries of the universe and then fighting to make other people believe them is really the problem. I don't think you can call Buddism a great evil. It's the fundamentalists who want to see the world recreated in their image that I have a problem with.

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
Religion isn't the cause of evil, it is simply the greatest reason to do evil because it offers the greatest reward. There are very few hoops you can't get people to jump through in the name of religion.

Thanks for clarifying. It sounded like you were saying that religion is the utmost cause of all evil. But you are absolutely right: religion and eternal rewards would be the greatest motivator. Kill someone for politics? Receive a medal. Kill someone for god? Receive eternal life. Fortunately, there is only one religion I know of that teaches such a thing although some of its adherents dispute the doctrine.

the two largest religions suffer from the same problem. There are some who kill or hate based on their book, but there are also those who help others based on that same book. Do I think either is right? not really. If the motivation to help that person was guided by selfishness then your intentions aren't really to help anyone but yourself.

I don't view the actions as being much different. one harms someone while the other helps, but both were done for a reward for one's self. When the value placed on another man's life is determined by one's own ability to get a reward, you're going to be disappointed if you expect to get that reward from a righteous God.