Religion is the great evil of mankind.

Star and flag for the OP.

The only way in which I would disagree is that I think a distinction should be made between the three Judeo-Christian religions (who are responsible for the overwhelming majority of all religion-related suffering) and other peaceful enlightened religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Paganism.

My feelings on the matter can be summed up by my view that God's greatest trick was in convincing the world He is the utlimate good. When I look at the Biblical stories of fruit from the tree of knowledge being forbidden - with the serpent representing evil, all I can do is draw a contrast between these teachings and those of the earlier (in my opinion, wiser) belief systems of the ancients where the serpent represented vitality and spiritual awakening, and the tree of life was something to be cherished and embraced, not forbidden.

In short, I believe that the three Judeo-Christian religions deliberately suppress knowledge and enlightenment, and that this was and always has been their purpose. Having said that, their sacred texts and myths do contain vast amounts of Gnosis (for example in the sacred geometry number of 72 springing up all over the place) which is there for the benefit of those who see through the literal connotations of such teachings.

So, if God exists, he is the architect of thousands of years of suffering and suppression.
If God doesn't exist, he represents the greatest deception ever made.

Either way, I want nothing to do with him.

There was a time in my life when l would have disagreed with the op. Back in the day I traveled abroad to raise christian churches and ministered to thousands. However, the more I learn and the more I ask questions (instead of just taking ppl and institutions at face value) I find myself siding more with the op.

Make sure you ALL have seen "Zietgiest" a good look at how all religions were based on. I completely agree with the tittle.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Intolerance is a human trait and it taints a LARGE portion of well everything human.
You have:
Racial Intolerance
Religious Intolerance
Regional Intolerance
Ideological Intolerance
National Intolerance
Ethnic Intolerance

And curiously enough practically all of these can be found in the Bible and resulted from actions that were "ordered by god".

And we can add a couple more that to that list as well: Gender Intolerance and Sexual Intolerance.

Intolerance is a larger thing than just something caused by religion.

Problem is that religions in some cases haven't done anything to end that intolerance and have promoted even more intolerance.

Case in point I have seen a fair amount of intolerance in Atheism.
A great amount of Atheists cannot and will not tolerate that word we call religion.

Obviously that there are always people, no matter what religious or political mindset they have, who do things mean-spiritedly.
But the majority of atheists that I know and have seen talking about these things don't have intolerance for religion per se, but rather intolerance for words and actions (some) religions promote when it fits their objectives that end up spreading intolerance, injustice and evil deeds.

Individuals not groups impress me, in fact group mentality (ANY group) tends to make my gums ache.

Then you have to acknowledge that organized religions provide the best and fastest way to create group mentality. And even worse - they also provide the best 'tools' to keep one in ignorance: deny all contradictory evidence that goes against one's beliefs without questioning anything ('scared' beliefs).


PS: It's obvious that I'm not talking about all religions, as I'm sure there are harmless religions that promote tolerance, understanding and rational thinking.

And even though I only mentioned the Bible, all the other religious books/texts/scriptures that promote the very same actions I was using as an example, deserve the same kind of critique.

Don't take my post as a rant or bash on a particular religion(s), but I believe it's important we focus and discuss the major ones, because those are the ones that have influence on most of society and the population.

reply to post by Conspiriology


Thanks!

reply to post by danx

And curiously enough practically all of these can be found in the Bible and resulted from actions that were "ordered by god".

Of course "God told me" is the ultimate of excuses to do what you want.

Problem is that religions in some cases haven't done anything to end that intolerance and have promoted even more intolerance.

Because they are human?
And Buddhism has.

But the majority of atheists that I know and have seen talking about these things don't have intolerance for religion per se, but rather intolerance for words and actions (some) religions promote when it fits their objectives that end up spreading intolerance, injustice and evil deeds.

Sorry in this comment I see what I see happening on the Religious side as well.
It's called excuses and justification of ones side.
It's a natural thing we do when factionalising.
No offense meant but that is what I see.
NO ONE is aligned with a side they believe are worthless and morally corrupt.
But yet many have. There is always some justification.
Do you honestly think the Nazi's really thought they were evil?
Not saying atheism is evil please don't get me wrong.
Just using a very visible and extreme example.

Then you have to acknowledge that organized religions provide the best and fastest way to create group mentality.

Across the board, where ever humans get into groups there is this

And even worse - they also provide the best 'tools' to keep one in ignorance: deny all contradictory evidence that goes against one's beliefs without questioning anything ('scared' beliefs).

no matter what kind of group it may be. Some transcend this and I applaud them.
Too much damn factionalism within the human animal.

You naturally don't see it in your own group (Atheism) because your one of them. But like I said I have seen it and more than a few "outsiders".
But like I said no offense meant.



[edit on 19-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]

[edit on 19-2-2008 by Kanati]

[edit on 19-2-2008 by Kanati]

[edit on 19-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]

You missed your true calling my friend, you should have been a politician the way you spin that yarn. As it is true, RELIGIONS do teach intolerance, but they also teach violence, hypocrisies, hatred, separation, as part of a daily luncheon special.
The most endangering aspect of Religion imo is its ability of mind control. When a text (no matter origin) is brought before a young child, then told this is exact and its finite you start closing the mind down to free thinking.
If we look back at history most all great thinks discovered in science-art-engineering etc, have been done by free-thinkers, not by people who followed a certain doctrine. You must take in account that certain people years back who claimed a specific religion did so out of fear not by faith, and we know this to be true. I know for a fact Thomas Jefferson was against organized religion, and Ben Franklin was not a blissful follower of any certain doctrine either. It makes me chuckle some times when I hear people equate the Constitution with the Christian faith, yet nowhere in the Constitution does it mention Jesus or the Bible.
Back on point. If you look at the history of religion you will find atrocities at every turn. Now that tells me either these doctrines are wrong (imagine that), or that humans are easily palpable, and duped into horrific events. Either way I can't imagine anything good coming of people following religion. Now spiritual people thats a different thread.

Peace and Light

[edit on 19-2-2008 by Kanati]

reply to post by Kanati


As I said before you cleared your post then advanced it of my response post.

You know. I would argue with you.
But I have already said what I would say to you.
So I won't rehash ALL I have already said.

And considering I have been talking about TOLERANCE and how every friggin side needs to learn it, how in the heck am I spinning anything?
I refer you back to the gun metaphora and ALL that has already been said.

And I find it funny/frusterating when a group that shows a large amount of intolerance itself condemns another group as the source of intolerance.

And might I add your comment rings largely of "cop out".
You can't argue with my logic so you call it a "yarn" that I am "spinning" and I should be a "politician". Smacks badly of ad hominem too.
Sorry (really) but that is what I see.

[edit on 19-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Religion for 9/10's is geographical, wherever you are born and raised along with parental guidance will make you believe one religion or another.

Come the time when you feel you are an adult and can live and think outside the shell of your family enviroment, then maybe you will start to have other ideas, beliefs, or ask questions about the religion you grew up with.

Is religion evil, no not at all, it is only evilised by those who say this action or that action is done in the name of god (whichever god your religion believes in).

Now "belief" is different, it allows the individual to believe in whatever their upbringing gave them, but at the same time gives room to hear other perceptions of religion, which many beliefs are entwined.

To have a belief gives the person the right to alter their thinking and perception of the religion they purport to, unlike been a religious follower of a set faith, who would doubt every other theory apart from those given out by their own religion and religious masters.

Religion as a doctrine is evil just as much as politics is, both want to control the masses and reap as much money as they can.

Belief however will allow you to take on board other ideas without wanting to kill those around you who may have different ideals.

Before you pm me and say " I believe in this religion and you are wrong" just remember the word religion.


Wolfie

By your references to the Bible I assume you are talking about Chritianity when refering to organized religion. That should be clarified since there are many organized religions in the world who do not adhere to this doctorine. Having studied many of them, I can honestly say, that in my opinion, organized religion has it's purpose. Without it there would be no interest in what lies beyond our own day to day lives. Religion stimulates the mind to ask profound quesions about our universe, where we fit into it, and what lays beyond our own reality. Christianity is the only religion, I have studies so far, that asks it's followers to stay ignorant and blindly follow it's beliefs. The others I have studies encourage their followers to be open minded and seek knowledge in the hopes that they will obtain a better understanding of the way they fit into the universe.

By your references to the Bible I assume you are talking about Chritianity when refering to organized religion. That should be clarified since there are many organized religions in the world who do not adhere to this doctorine. Having studied many of them, I can honestly say, that in my opinion, organized religion has it's purpose. Without it there would be no interest in what lies beyond our own day to day lives. Religion stimulates the mind to ask profound quesions about our universe, where we fit into it, and what lays beyond our own reality. Christianity is the only religion, I have studies so far, that asks it's followers to stay ignorant and blindly follow it's beliefs. The others I have studies encourage their followers to be open minded and seek knowledge in the hopes that they will obtain a better understanding of the way they fit into the universe.

reply to post by danx

Also I find it worth noting.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Intolerance is a human trait and it taints a LARGE portion of well everything human.
You have:
Racial Intolerance
Religious Intolerance
Regional Intolerance
Ideological Intolerance
National Intolerance
Ethnic Intolerance

Plus:
Gender Intolerance
Sexual Intolerance
And the others that are not listed here.

It's really simple.
Take ALL those intolerances.
Remove the first word.
And what do you have?
That will tell you what is the real problem with people. All excuses aside.
It is repeated 8 times in that list in all 8 listed.
The inability of most of us to accept differences.

[edit on 19-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Of course "God told me" is the ultimate of excuses to do what you want.

I'm glad you realize this, it's important for the next point:

Problem is that religions in some cases haven't done anything to end that intolerance and have promoted even more intolerance.

Because they are human?

I don't dispute that men do bad things no matter what their religious beliefs are, but I would like to quote Blaise Pascal here: Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.

We know men do bad things, but let's not let them use the cover of religion and 'sacred' beliefs to protect and justify those things.

And since you acknowledge that the "god told me" provides the ultimate excuse, we should all, atheists and theists, speak against that sort of mentality and rhetoric.

And that's all I'm doing. I don't really care what are your personal beliefs or what religion you follow, as long as they don't interfere with my choices/beliefs/etc and very importantly, because this affects current affairs, they don't shape world politics.

Everyone, atheists and theists, should have been outraged with President Bush's "god told me to invade Iraq", as they should be when other extremists resort to religion to promote and justify their actions. Were you?

Sorry in this comment I see what I see happening on the Religious side as well.
It's called excuses and justification of ones side.

There's no excuses and justification in my post, I'm only telling it how I see it. And I never said atheists just for being atheists never do any evil or intolerance, so why should I be making up excuses?

Here's what I said that you apparently decided to remove from my quote in your post: "Obviously that there are always people, no matter what religious or political mindset they have, who do things mean-spiritedly."

It's a natural thing we do when factionalising.
No offense meant but that is what I see.

Why should I be offended with someone with a different view than mine? It's not like my beliefs and opinions are sacred that can't be contested or discussed

NO ONE is aligned with a side they believe are worthless and morally corrupt. But yet many have. There is always some justification.

"God told me to do it", "that's what the Bible says", etc.

I thank you for helping my point that we shouldn't also allow for religion and religious beliefs to provide such justification

Do you honestly think the Nazi's really thought they were evil?
Not saying atheism is evil please don't get me wrong.
Just using a very visible and extreme example.

Your analogy isn't valid in my opinion, because first of all, Nazi Germany wasn't an atheist state, and secondly, the Nazis didn't do what they did because they were atheists. They didn't use atheism as a justification to do the things they did.

And no, I don't get you wrong. I understand that you're not saying that atheism is evil, but I was hoping that you had understood that I wasn't saying religion was.

I'm not against religion, I'm against religion being used as cover for intolerance, atrocities, injustice, discrimination, and everything else we as a society should fight against. You and other 'believers' should also be outraged by this, and I think since you're an intelligent and impartial person, you are.

Too much damn factionalism within the human animal.

You naturally don't see it in your own group (Atheism) because your one of them. But like I said I have seen it and more than a few "outsiders".
But like I said no offense meant.

Me being an atheist has nothing to do with what I wrote in the previous post.

It's just that as an atheist, when I see religious pretexts being used as justification it means absolutely squat to me, and I'll objectively (try to) evaluate the message.

Of course that as being an atheist I can't help but scoff at any attempt of passing religion as if it was a seal for righteousness

If you're looking for religion to save the world, then be prepared to be disappointed.
So many religions may have a kernel of truth, but go all-out on a tangent and become irrelevant.
Jesus said,
Jam 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.

If we would follow him.
"Let God be true and every man, a liar."

reply to post by Clearskies

If you're looking for religion to save the world, then be prepared to be disappointed.

Where in the HECK did I say anything like that?

reply to post by WraothAscendant


I wasn't replying to you, specifically.
In fact, I didn't even read EVERY post.

Just a general idea.

reply to post by enchantress62


I disagree with your opinion that without organized religion there would be no interest in what lies beyond our own day to day lives, and I believe so do most or all scientists.

I mean, if organized religion are needed to stimulate the mind to ask profound questions about our universe and most scientists are atheists, where do they get their motivation and will to ask profound questions about the universe?

People always mix up "religion" with "spirituality" to connect to higher being (god) whatever you wanna call it, you need to be connecting with YOU. It has NOTHING to do with a man written book telling you how to see life. God is within us all, it's the gift of life. The fact that you can say "I" is what god IS. ALL religions are man made, written to archive a certain individuals agenda.

More people die in the name of religion in the history of our existence then any natural cause disaster, do you honeslty think that's your purpose? to kill others and yourself!

We are being used like hand puppets to do what we're told because otherwise we'll get judged and go to hell. It's called "FEAR" that's what our system is based on. People need to stop looking for religions and start looking for self consciousness, learn to find god within you, it is NOT an outside source, there is no judgment day, there is no GOD that will judge you. It created you and will take you away as will, so be true and real to yourself.

Appreciate the opportunity given to you to explore life, be truly FREE, let your soul guide your path, let your heart experience your world. That is what GOD truly wants you to do, make up your OWN god damn mind, not what some book tells you. WAKE UP people! Don't you see there is no religions... it's all about UNITY and being one with one another. Help each other evolve and explore the world, not kill each other with all this religion nonsense!

Religion is not the great evil of mankind, but rather mankind's great blunder.