Check my post four above yours! Must be on ignore

Seriously though, I find this very interesting from the perspective of the F-35 purchase, and the fact that the article (which may or may not reflect actual Government policy and opinion) says that the funds will come from the F-35 buy. This indicates a couple of things to me:

1. The Government believe that the capability gap is greater than first thought, and will be exacerbated by the F-35 slippage; or
2. The Government believe that an increased Super Hornet/decreased F-35 buy will meet the air combat needs out to 2020(ish); or
3. Boeing marketing are bloody good; or
4. A mix of all three.

Should be interesting to see what the official line will be when (and if) announced.

Well there was talk last week and it was confirmed by the bosses today, that there MAY be a follow up buy of Growlers to compliment the F model Super Hornets.

TextCheck my post four above yours! Must be on ignore


Oops......missed that.


TextA MASSIVELY restructured Australian Defence Force equipped with a fleet of 400 advanced combat aircraft and 30 submarines could be needed to provide for the nation's security and counter the rise of Asian powers, a former senior defence official has recommended.

TextMy first thought was "Yes!" but I obviously know very little about defence issues (especially costs etc) which is why I'm asking for some opinions. Anyone care to give their thoughts? Willard? The Winged Wombat? Anyone?


Well, that would equate to roughly quadrupling Australia's current forces with an according defense budget increase to nearly 4 times its current size.

I don't think that's in any serious government consideration

I agree. I don't think the Government currently has any plans to create a super-ADF. Not only would you need to increase the actual warfighting systems (which isn't a huge issue other than cost), the biggest problem is finding someone to use them. And with the current recruiting problems, I can't see them doing it. Plus, there are other enablers we would need to get to be able support super-ADF, such as targeting systems (including satellite) which are wholly Australian, again the cost of such things to support 400 aircraft etc would be astronomical. I simply can't see it happening, unless there was an expected build-up in Indonesia to 2045 that would necessitate such a radical increase in capability, commensurate with a reduction in US regional involvement

Ok.

Pardon my ignorance here, but can someone list of sources that prove beyond doubt that certain 'Asian' forces have untoward intentions with Australia?
Frankly I've only seen articles bordering on paranoia that hint of this.

If the only reason to increase ADF capability both qualitatively and quantitatively is some 'Abominable Asian Monster' then I don't quite buy it.

don't get me wrong here. I sincerely believe that Australia DOES need a much bigger and stronger military, esp navy; but purely because it should reduce its direct dependence on US/Western military protection and power.
I feel that it is crucial to have a strong non-aligned naval power that sits between the Indian and Pacific oceans and looks upon the major energy routes between them.

I do not know of Australian public sentiment; but frankly as an Indian I would love to see an Australia not toeing the American line.
Not trying to break up the friendship between you guys; just thinking Australia needs to step up to a geo-strategic responsibility in the region that is governed by her needs only.
That force can drive allied activities in the region rather than 'complement' them.

Ok enough sunshine up one's behind. Who are these big bad bullies of Asia?

Originally posted by Daedalus3


don't get me wrong here. I sincerely believe that Australia DOES need a much bigger and stronger military, esp navy; but purely because it should reduce its direct dependence on US/Western military protection and power.
I feel that it is crucial to have a strong non-aligned naval power that sits between the Indian and Pacific oceans and looks upon the major energy routes between them.

I do not know of Australian public sentiment; but frankly as an Indian I would love to see an Australia not toeing the American line.
Not trying to break up the friendship between you guys; just thinking Australia needs to step up to a geo-strategic responsibility in the region that is governed by her needs only.
That force can drive allied activities in the region rather than 'complement' them.

I'm inclined to agree with you insofar as I would like to see Australia as being more independent and able to look after itself. Problem is, there's only 20 or so million of us. I believe we might be able to afford a considerable expansion of the ADF but whether or not that means 400 F-35 or Raptor class fighters and 30 subs.... I really don't know.

Besides, being able to stand up for yourself should never mean you're not still friends with someone. The UK can look after itself can't it? They're still pretty close to the USA. A strong and independent Australia which is a close ally of the USA able to look after itself should be welcomed by America.

My thoughts are more along the lines of knowing that Australia could make it too difficult, expensive and costly in terms of lives for any power to try and invade us.

That is, of course, if it's a conventional war. If things went nuclear then we'd be toast.

The bird is only as good as the handler. You all know this. I thought this was actually a discussion about the skill and capability of the force on the whole. LOL....but an interesting read nonetheless.