All Sinners

(I personally don't believe in religion, religion has killed so many people that I don't want any part in it.)

Hey everyone, I was in a deep discussion with some family yesterday about religion. I often like to put in my opinions and thoughts but I'm not always taken seriously simply because I'm 17 debating 40-50 year olds. My uncle is a VERY religious man and the discussion turned to the topic of sin. My uncle stated that all men, women, and children who are not baptized will go to hell.

So I brought up a point, asking whether if a 5 month old (non Christian) was killed in the Tsunami, would this child go to hell?

My uncle simply said "yes". How is this possible? My uncle stated that it is the fault of the parents for not having their child baptized, and it is their fault that their child now burns in hell.

I couldn't believe my ears, I simply walked out of the room because I couldn't take anymore.

Mitchell

whatever makes him comfortable I guess. IMHO its just not true. I personally dont believe in hell. I think that it was created as a way to control people into behaving the way they think we should behave.....

How about putting your uncle's opinions to the side and looking into what the Bible actually says about children? It sounds like he is a Christian (possibly a Catholic or Baptist) so it would seem logical to go to the core of why he believes what he does. Nothing says children go to Hell. In fact, it states just the opposite.

David's newborn son died and he acknowledged that his son was now in Heaven, Paul taught that children prior to the age of accountability are "saved by default," and Jesus clearly explains children have a special place in His heart. His opinions might change if he becomes aware of these passages in the book he claims to follow and stops listening to whatever dogma seems to be his guide.

I respect you for your views and opinions, yet we will have to agree to dis- agree, and walk away taking the high road. Realize that his religiosity does match your spirituality. People learn by example and you can show someone more by just being you. The pathless path is always walked alone, but not lonely.

the religion thing has been hashed, rehashed, overhashed....more ways than bubba's shrimp. it sounds like you're looking for someone to agree with you and make you feel better about your beliefs. well here it is. anyone who would condemn someone to an eternal hell, especially for doing nothing wrong, is not worth your effort to engage in conversation. i wonder how some of these people can tell me that their "all loving" god would send a baby to hell simply because it hadn't been baptized. seriously, how messed up and brainwashed do you have to be to actually believe something like that?

Actually I don't have any real beliefs. I was not looking for "approval", simply a discussion on the topic brought up by my uncle.

Originally posted by MitchMagic
So I brought up a point, asking whether if a 5 month old (non Christian) was killed in the Tsunami, would this child go to hell?

My uncle simply said "yes". How is this possible? My uncle stated that it is the fault of the parents for not having their child baptized, and it is their fault that their child now burns in hell.

Sadly, your uncle is dead wrong - but he is not alone in this ridiculous belief. Baptism is NOT a requirement for ANYONE (children or adults) for salvation. Salvation is determined upon the condition of one's heart. Children, are innocent and blameless until they reach the age of accountability. This age is determined upon when they are able to reason for themselves. For all others, a humble heart is a good heart. A humble heart will accept Christ Jesus as their lord and saviour. So, whether they've been baptised or not, or have even heard of the name Jesus Christ or not, doesn't matter - it boils down to their hearts.

regina: thank you. there are a lot of people who could learn something from you. i have no problem with christianity or any other faith. i have a problem with it when the followers of those religions try to push their beliefs on others claiming that they need to be saved or burn in hell. if those people had an attitude more like yours there wouldn't be an issue. i believe that as long as you're making a conscious effort to lead a good life and you are appreciative of the things you have, then there's no reason to be worried about ending up in hell.

Agreed! A concious effort should be worth something.

I can't help but wonder, though...According to pyschology, as ifants, our minds are almost entirely Id. For those that do not know what Id is, it is our very basic natural instinct. The feeling of hunger, the need to urinate or defacate, etc. We have no sense of right or wrong, at the age of 5 months; we have no sense of reason at the age of 5 months(right, wrong, reason: ego and super ego. They don't develop until later in life), therefore we eat when hungry without regard to anything but our natural desire or need to, we urinate wherever we are without thinking "is it right to pee in public?" or "should I pee where it's necessary?"
We eat, urinate, defecate wherever, whenever. We don't have reasoning abilities.

And so my point in all of this is that, considering this study, I don't think a 5 month old has the ability to accept Jesus, or make any "concious effort" in whatever heart he or she may have.

So WOULD an infant go to hell, if he or she died around the age? What about those of unsound mind? The mentally ill or mentally handicapped? Basically, anyone who can't conciously accept Jesus Christ or make an effort to live a good life.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by Kyuubi]

I find it sad, that someone would even consider a child, who has not reached the age of accountability, to be doomed to Hell.

However, with that being said, the Baptisms (both of them) are very special and sacred. John's is special, but the Lord's is sacred.

Originally posted by MitchMagic
(I personally don't believe in religion, religion has killed so many people that I don't want any part in it.)

Hey everyone, I was in a deep discussion with some family yesterday about religion. I often like to put in my opinions and thoughts but I'm not always taken seriously simply because I'm 17 debating 40-50 year olds. My uncle is a VERY religious man and the discussion turned to the topic of sin. My uncle stated that all men, women, and children who are not baptized will go to hell.

So I brought up a point, asking whether if a 5 month old (non Christian) was killed in the Tsunami, would this child go to hell?

My uncle simply said "yes". How is this possible? My uncle stated that it is the fault of the parents for not having their child baptized, and it is their fault that their child now burns in hell.

I couldn't believe my ears, I simply walked out of the room because I couldn't take anymore.

Mitchell

Jesus stated:

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned (Mark 16:16)

I imagine your uncle has this scripture clearly in the back ground of his thinking, when he made the assessment regarding the 5 month old infant child.

Even so, he need not lose sight of this statement by Peter:

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:..(I Peter 3:21)

He needs to make note of the explanation by Peter in this scripture that the actual procedure of Baptism itself IS NOT what saves the individual but, the ANSWER of a good CONSCIENCE toward God regarding one's faith in Christ.

Also, he needs to acknowledge I Peter 3:21 and the fact that one has to have the ability of mind to Answer God with a Good Conscience. A five month old baby does not have that mental ability. So does he assume that because of no fault of the baby, not having the ability to answer God with a good conscience, God will send that baby to hell?

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
I find it sad, that someone would even consider a child, who has not reached the age of accountability, to be doomed to Hell.

However, with that being said, the Baptisms (both of them) are very special and sacred. John's is special, but the Lord's is sacred.

Sad, but definitely something to question, don't you think? If dying infants are going to hell, that's really something we should all be worrying about.