Danish Muslims in cartoon protest, page 1
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reply posted on 16-2-2008 @ 09:51 PM by Chaoticar
Originally posted by RedGolem
So what we have here are cartoonist ploting to be killed, and free speach is a bad plague. I hope the majority of all Danes reconise this as why religen should never be allowed to run government. Good job on re printing the cartoons, keep up the good work!

related thread one
related thread two


Another "interesting" news piece on Denmark and "Islam":

"17 youths" (it's always "youths" - never "immigrants", or "Muslims", just "youths - life's funny, ain't it?") arrested after riots in Denmark

Look, to be completely honest with any ATSers reading this, I could quite easily flood this thread with news reports linking "immigrants" and "Islam" in Europe to various anti-"integrationist" views and actions, however there's no real point in doing so - there is a clique here at ATS that CANNOT and WILL not see that, in many cases, Muslims in Europe, especially immigrants, are causing more trouble than their worth in their fanatical love of Islam.

I know that the PC Thought Police will descend on my comments faster than the speed of light, but I just don't care anymore - why should Europe entertain persons that do not wish to "integrate"?

Cue the apologists!


reply posted on 17-2-2008 @ 01:29 AM by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Muslims should be free to peacefully speak their mind like everybody else. I think (and hope) the posters on this board are not denouncing Muslims who peacefully criticize the cartoons, but rather, they are denouncing those people who are acting violently or threatening violence.

While it is true that Muslims often do suffer "pontless abuse" like being stereotyped as terrorists, much of the criticism that Islam gets is often warranted. This is not to say that all Muslims are doing horrible things, but there is a visibile segment of the Muslim community throughout the world that engages in inexcusable behavior in the name of Islam. The rest of the Muslim World does not seem to strongly condemn those that are acting out of line.


reply posted on 17-2-2008 @ 02:00 AM by Chaoticar
Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Heaven forbid that Muslims demonstrate! Why, they should sit in their homes and take all the pointless abuse that people heap on them!


Oh, I apologise - I didn't know that you weren't going to be bothered to finish reading the article:

"We see different reasons for the rioting," Munch said. "We do not know why exactly. It can be because of boredom, it can be because police in recent weeks have stepped up its search for knives, it can be other things too."


I still find it humourous that, if there are "Muslim immigrant" riots in Europe, the rioters will automatically be designated as "youths", presumably in a feeble attempt to convince the average Joe that "native" Christian/atheist etc Dutch, French etc teenagers will be just as likely to torch cars, houses, hospitals, riot and make a general nuisance of themselves as their "Islamic immigrant brothers".

But come on:

When was the last time European Catholics rioted, burned cars etc over "police oppression"?
When was the last time European Protestants made plans to execute journalists due to their unsavoury depictions of Jesus?
When was the last time European Eastern Orthodox followers "threatened" authority figures over the release of an anti-Christian documentary?

There seems to be a recurrent theme here that, if Jesus/Buddha/Xenu or what have you was insulted in the media, Christians/Buddhists/Scientologists etc will be just as likely as Muslims to riot, make death threats, attack non-Christians/Buddhists/Scientologists.

Yes, retort with the "it's only a minority of fanatics/extremists/fundamentalists", however when the majority share the views of the minority...


reply posted on 17-2-2008 @ 06:36 PM by RedGolem
reply to post by Beachcoma


I looked at that link. Near as I could tell the rioting was caused over a building that was once a center for a left wing activist group. It was sold to a religious group, who filed for the residents, squatters, to be evicted. That's what caused the riots. So if you were using that as a response to other religious groups causing riots I don't think the religious group caused that one. It sounded to be the left wing activist group.



reply posted on 17-2-2008 @ 09:37 PM by Chaoticar
Originally posted by RedGolem
Chaoticar,
I'm not going to call the thought police on you. I agree with what your saying. I agree all people have the right to speak there mind, but not to cause riots and destroy some one else's property. I also agree with what you said about integrating. Hirsh Ally said it the best I think. If you don't like the level of freedom here, then don't come here.
I will change that a little since immigrants were not mentioned and say, if you don't want the freedom here, then leave.


I apologise for the rant, but it just seems that with every "anti-Islamic" thread, a group of unmentionables hi-jacks the thread, and acts as if it's not "Muslim immigrants" creating the problems, but a "racist, xenophobic Western society that does not respect, nor desire their integration" as the cause of the various "problems".

Now, what it all boils down to is respect for all societies, including the Western one.
I'm a reasonable person - I do not expect Muslim immigrants to create ghettoes, refuse to integrate, attack non-Muslims etc in Europe, as much as I expect Christian immigrants to China to do the same, Buddhist immigrants to South America or immigrants anywhere for that matter to do so.

But I think that, in the West (if not everywhere), we need to say enough is enough - either live by our laws, code of conduct etc, or get out - with the recent Sharia debacle and other assorted nonsense all I can see in Europe's future is a "Kosovo" situation, where - unwilling to integrate - the various Islamic immigrant communities around Europe declare "autonomy". And if that path is followed, all I can see is bloodshed for all concerned.

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Riots In Copenhagen After Antiterror Unit Cleared Ungdomshuset

You'll find information in there about the current one, too.


As per RedGolem, I do not believe that a Christian organisation purchasing a building, and the left-wing squatters rioting because they were driven out, constitutes a "Catholic", or for that matter "Christian" riot.


reply posted on 18-2-2008 @ 01:24 AM by The Walking Fox
reply to post by Chaoticar


I apologize if I left you with the impression that I was speaking of your link. I was responding to the OP's link about the demonstrations in Denmark. Apparently expressing disappointment and offense at a maneuver expressly intended to cause offense is a bad thing.

With regards to your link, the people responsible are arrested. The people who were plotting murder are arrested and being deported (and I agree with the Muslim community on the part that they should be tried and tossed in prison)

Now you can bitch and moan about how of course everyone involved is certainly a Muslim... but fact is, you don't know that, do you? It's an assumption, and in your case probably a desire, that all of these people be Muslims. Nothing like self-righteous vindication for bigotry to soothe the ol' ego, right? Thankfully the writer of the piece is a better journalist thna that.


reply posted on 18-2-2008 @ 02:33 AM by Beachcoma
reply to post by RedGolem and post by Chaoticar



Convenient, isn't it? If the people happen to be mostly Muslims, it's a "Muslim riot". If they happen to be mostly Christians, then suddenly it's something else. Suddenly there's a distinction. "Left-wing".

So how is that any different then designating the "Muslim riot" as being caused by "youths"? Do you see the hypocrisy and double standard in your statement? Is it clear now how it cuts both ways?


reply posted on 18-2-2008 @ 04:01 AM by RedGolem
reply to post by Beachcoma


Beachcoma,
I am not calling it convenient or trying to change the facts at all. The only thing I saw that brought Christians into that particular riot was they were the ones who bought the building. The other group was referred to as left wing. It made no menchen of religion in any way. To me it sounds like your trying to make the story you referenced as something about religious fanaticism when it is probably not.


reply posted on 18-2-2008 @ 07:20 AM by Beachcoma
Originally posted by RedGolem
To me it sounds like your trying to make the story you referenced as something about religious fanaticism when it is probably not.


Just illustrating how things can get twisted around. If I were trying to grind an axe, I would point out that these left-wing nutters were mainly locals, and since the locals are mostly Christian, then it's a Christian riot. Take this particular issue for example. According to the report by members who are from the area, it's mostly an immigrant issue.

From the thread I linked:

Hellmutt's account:

Originally posted by Hellmutt
Here's a brief summary:

  • The police "behaved badly" against a Palestinian cab driver, pushing him so he fell on the street. This might have been the trigger, according to some journalists (but what do they know?)
  • This caused some gangs to start some trouble, throwing stones and starting some fires. Burning cars. Showing their frustration with everything. It erupted in many places at the same time, like if it was organized.
  • Then these attacks continued.
  • Then the murder plot against Kurt Westergaard was revealed
  • Three were arrested in relation with the murder plot. One Dane was released, and they announced that two Tunesians are going to be deported back to Tunesia, without a trial (because of some terror paragraph)
  • The murder plot caused the cartoons to be reprinted in many newspapers
  • Naser Khader and Pia Kjærsgaard suddenly agree on something... That the blasphemy paragraph should be removed. Other politicians agree as well. It's "an ancient paragraph", they say. I agree. Some fundamentalists might not agree. Perfect timing...
  • And now, they use the cartoons as an escuse to go even more crazy.


    • And here is Loke's account:

    Originally posted by Loke.
    According to a lot of the protesting people these "riots" has nothing to do what so ever with Mohammed drawings, its more an action against the Visitationzones and the police´s more aggresively behaviour towards ethnic citizens in these zones.

    The "Its the Mohammed drawings" is a stunt from the media to get the ignite more riots and more sales in newspapers.

    The whole "riot" thing started according to protesters because of the police being hostile towards a Palestinian man who had parked illegally and was being fined, but the police started commenting racists slanderous and when the man started defending him self vocally he got knocked down and kicked and beaten with a nightstick. He was not badly injured but he did get beating and this is why the most of the ethnic citizens youth started protesting and burning off containers and cars.


    My initial response was actually directed more towards Chaoticar, who tried to turn this into a religious issue. It's not. It's an immigrant issue. If the situation were to occur in the US, with these immigrants being Hispanic, would they say it's an immigrant issue or would they say it's a Catholic issue? Probably the former. And that is true and convenient. If they said the latter, it would also be true, but not very convenient.

    At any rate, I think we had a slight miscommunication here. I'm aware that you usually look at things from all perspectives. When I say convenient, I mean convenient for the media, in the sense that it feeds the current Islamophobia a lot in the West has. Which in turn feeds the desire to obtain more news of the time. Which sells more papers. That is very convenient.


    reply posted on 18-2-2008 @ 06:13 PM by RedGolem
    reply to post by Beachcoma


    Beachcoma
    ok I think you explained your take on that reference pretty well in that post. Thanks for takeing the time to do so.

    Also thanks to every one else who has posted here.

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