The Hero Pattern (Could Jesus be fake?)...

reply to post by watchtheashes


We are not talking about the validity of the bible per-say--Though I do wonder how the 'lost books' would hold up to your "matrix".--We are talking about the validity of the existance of Jesus the Christ.

Furthermore, about the bible codes, I was under the impression Hebrew had to be used as the language. And that it was only the OT that had the 'codes' (Or at least, the ones you are referring to.)

Lastly, just because there may (or may not) be 'codes' in the bible, does not PROVE that Jesus was a real person, all it proves is that there are codes in the bible.

Anything beyond fact, is speculation.

I'm pretty sure the Bible itself is enough proof for Jesus. He had more than two or three witnesses of his ministry. Shroud of Turin. Bible Codes in SENTENCES. No way those are there by chance. Of course people won't accept its truth so they say "It must have been aliens." Yeah let me tell you. Aliens are all knowing.

www.biblecodedigest.com...

Isaac Newton was consumed by the possibility of something like this in the latter days of his life. What the government doesn't tell you in school.

[edit on 1-5-2009 by watchtheashes]

reply to post by watchtheashes


Sorry, I don't know ho this works. Watch the ashes, when you say "sentences" are you refering to the message sent to you by Tyler 720? I am new to using computers so please bear with me.

reply to post by watchtheashes

reply to post by Tyler 720


No I'm referring to Bible Code ELS terms that form sentences within the text at equal skips.

Originally posted by watchtheashes
I'm pretty sure the Bible itself is enough proof for Jesus. He had more than two or three witnesses of his ministry. Shroud of Turin. Bible Codes in SENTENCES. No way those are there by chance. Of course people won't accept its truth so they say "It must have been aliens." Yeah let me tell you. Aliens are all knowing.

You can not use the bible to prove the bible, it is logically faulty. Furthermore, if you would have read the thread you would have known that the "Bible" is not evidence, let alone evidence that is acceptable in this thread.

Shroud of Turin is a hoax, again read through the thread for the sources.

And again, the only thing the bible codes prove is that there are codes in the bible. Nothing more nothing less, everything else is speculation YOU HAVE NO PROOF. Other than your faith, which is NOT proof.

Also, I find your attempts at hyjacking my thread rude. This is about the validity of Jesus the Christ, not your Magic Paint-By-Numbers Bible code. If you continue to de-rail my thread I will report.

Lastly, your eyewitness remark. I call that a LIE! Not one person has been able to come up with ONE witness, let alone two. This includes high ranking members of your religion, so if you have proof run to the streets shouting!! You can finally prove JC was real!! (I still say it is a lie, no source no truth)

I'm sorry there is a God and you don't want to accept His presence. He knows what you're thinking all the time you know. You want to debunk Christianity so I provide SCIENTIFIC STATISTICAL AND LOGISTICAL counter evidence. I can give a control matrx if that makes you feel better. When someone on another thread says there's no UFOs no one says anything but the opposite. Why is it not okay now? Because you can't explain this. Here is the best skeptic matrix ( and it is pathetic.)

cs.anu.edu.au... (What a fool)

Best pro codes matrix: www.biblecodedigest.com...

In a short span of VERSES there are many sentences and 1,400+ ELS terms. This is merely a portion of that matrix and the whole thing is about Jesus. No chance in the universe by SCIENTIFIC DEFINITION of STATISTICIANS. You can't debunk this neither can Mr. Mckay.

Finally a comparison of the two matrices here:
www.biblecodedigest.com...

Now tell me Jesus doesn't exist.

[edit on 1-5-2009 by watchtheashes]

Originally posted by watchtheashes
I'm sorry there is a God and you don't want to accept His presence. He knows what you're thinking all the time you know. You want to debunk Christianity so I provide SCIENTIFIC STATISTICAL AND LOGISTICAL counter evidence. I can give a control matrx if that makes you feel better. When someone on another thread says there's no UFOs no one says anything but the opposite. Why is it not okay now? Because you can't explain this.

I will say this one last time, the only thing the Bible codes prove, are that there are codes in the Bible. Unless you have video of 'god' sneaking them in there, or some equal evidence that it would be impossible for a man to reproduce the codes *cough* Moby Dick *cough* War and Peace *cough*. I am sure if you run a search you will find a multitude of threads 'debunking' the Bible codes. That is the purpose of those threads, this thread is about "The Hero Pattern". See that is how debate works, there is what we call a "topic" and then the members talk about that topic.

Here is proof to destroy your code, use the Spanish version of the Bible, or French, or German. The codes do not work anymore, unless you change the code (Doesn't sound very divine, if it has to change to work) And by work I do not mean they get the same message.

TOPIC ALERT!!
Since the current debator obviously has no 'substansial' evidence, my thread is still valid. "The Hero Pattern (Could Jesus be fake?)"

Least I know why the thread is avoided, no argument. If someone could 'prove' me wrong they would have done it by now.

"If someone asks a question that, if answered, validates the opposing opinion; either ignore the question, or pretend no one is asking."
--Me

Again you're not getting it. THIS IS A BIBLE CLUSTER ABOUT JESUS BEING THE MESSIAH and it is a statistical experiment that is highly controlled. I feel that since this is a debate I can provide counter evidence on your views. You're not getting the message. I can make a matrix in Moby Dick and War and Peace too, and none are like the Bible. And if you're going to continue to be blind to the obvious (because the Bible says not to do the things people these days love), then I'll have you know significant clusters have been found in: Hebrew, English, Koine Greek NT, Aramaic Texts, and the like. So in Spanish I'm sure there would be codes. It is the Word of God and since God designed language, so the translations would have to have some form of codes.

Gematria is a system based on alpha numeric values. Very interesting results here man. You get this when you add the letters of phrases. The numbers relate.

Right on well...

MAITREYA In English= 666
MAITREYA in Hebrew = 666 (all seven spellings)


TO MEGA THERION or THE GREAT BEAST= 666

Maitreya in Greek is MIThRHIA = 666

I can't post in greek so... that's the best I can do for you but it works.




25 of december =666

new age cult =666

Sanskirt = 666 (another name for Maitreya)

christos =666 Maitreya is called The Christ or Christos (a title JESUS IS THE TITLE AND THE MAN AND THE DIVINE SON OF GOD not The Christ he was known as Christ but also the Son of God)

a perfected man =666 (title of maitreya)

More examples of Jesus findings in English.

Jesus Christ=906 Jesus is Lord=906 Holy Spirit=906 Jesus Sacrificed=906 Jesus is Alive=906 Shed Blood for Man=906 Healing Promise=906 Love is the Law=906

The Bible Code = 540

Holy Bible = 540

The Jews = 540

Jesus=444 Cross=444 Gospel=444 Messiah=444 Yshua=444 Jewish=444 English=444 Gematria=444

nine one one =660

evil plot =660

attack by air =660

bomb in sky =660

9-11 targets =660

9-11 hijackings =666 (They conspired to do it within the government so it was a lie 666 a sin)

g bush elected =666

president =660

a war in iraq =666

saddam hussien =660

hung by neck =660

saddam hung =666

adolf hitler =660

heil hitler=660

the gas chamber =660

prisons =660

martial law=660

pope liars =666

illuminati =666

follow man=666

bio implant =666

a bio chip device =666

buy porn =666

corrupt =666

lustful =666

no more cash =666

digital id chip =666




What did Saddam really do? Bush had him killed (he is a satanic puppet)

The King Jesus=888 Divine Presence=888 Omnipresent=888 Scriptures=888 The Lion of Judah=888 Law of Liberty=888 The House of God=888 Biblical Prophet=888 Messiah Jesus=888 Gods Perfect Bible=888
English Gematria=888. Get it yet? I pray that all of you may find salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ (Yeshua) and that he may forgive us all for our sins and that he may open everyone's eyes to the truth of truths. The Kingdom is coming soon.

By the way this is not playing around with numbers because of the different languages and methods do the same things. There will of course be noise in the data, but the Bible makes music my friend. Just admit it. I'm the only one on here who seems to back up claims with the Written word and scientific evaluation. This IS scientific evaluation.

Just like a UFO skeptic can provide their evidence and a pro UFO person can provide theirs, I can do this. I think I'm justified in what I am doing, however if this still doesn't change your mind then when Jesus comes in the sky you'll be pretty freaked out.

EDIT:

In your original post you did use the Bible as part of your point which I do see however you're not seeing our point.
[edit on 1-5-2009 by watchtheashes]

[edit on 1-5-2009 by watchtheashes]

Originally posted by watchtheashes
Again you're not getting it. THIS IS A BIBLE CLUSTER ABOUT JESUS BEING THE MESSIAH

And you are not getting it, you can not use the Bible to prove the Bible!

That is one of the 'points' that were set at the begining of this discussion.

And a list with names + a number is not 'scientific proof', I'm sorry. I will be back shortly with a list of threads/sites that debunk your bible codes. Come to think of it Penn & Teller did an episode of BullSh@# on it (Might have been the Nostradamus Codes though)

I wonder what you codes do in the verses that say we should stone women, and kill disobediant teenagers.

One last question about your 'proof', I have always been told 'proof' can not be given because it would destroy "free will". This is what pastors tell me when I ask the 'uncomfortable' questions (Such as this thread, or another favorite "Let us make man in our image" (I didn't know 'God' had help making man!)

Really, the only name + number that matters is this:

Jesus = 20/22 (Might be 19, can't remember off hand)

(That would be the points in the "Hero Pattern" that JC fills, care to give your opinions on the topic at all?)

I see the point you're making unfortunately Jesus's role as hero will not be completely fulfilled till the end of the End of Times. Which by ASTRONOMICAL DATA THAT CO-RELATES with Bible prophecy should be by 2015. A TETRAD:

Four blood moons on Jewish Holidays that fall in one year. The next one is in 2015 and this is also the time frame that three other Biblical cycles must complete. Therefore the return of Jesus the Messiah will be in this time frame as Jesus can only return in a sabbatical year and thus 2014/2015 by the Hebrew calendar and the Gregorian Calendar. Tetrads only occur rarely as far apart as every 500 years. Blood moons always signify change in Israel (switch the e and a and you get IS REAL BTW) like the one above the temple mount in 1967 after the Six Day War.

Moderators I ask you. Am I fair in presenting counter-evidence to his claims through the Bible if the OP himself used it as evidence to support his claims?

Or maybe that no archaeological (solid) evidence has proven he was ever crucified. Or that he was anything but a governor (if this is really the person they are speaking off).

Jesus wasn't even the name of the messiah that was given in the old testament. So even the bible proves it wrong.

I don't know how with all the evidence against Jesus existing that people are still obsessed with him.

Of course with the current trend of everyone wanting to be esoterically superior, it makes sense.

I can't deny the math. I've been hand calculating words and phrases for years and the fact is the content or meaning of the words or phrases being similar and adding up to the same number is not probable. What if your first name and the first names of your friends and family add up to the same number? Possible but not probable. If it did happen you must question the possibility of manipulation. Like a brick wall formed when a volcano exploded, possible but not probable. Even though you did not see someone build it you must conclude it was inteligently designed simply because of the odds. Can you ever prove one way or the other? probably not. you can only attempt to prove the brick wall exists.

Could jesus be fake? possible. However the vast amount of concern regarding him over the past 2000 years would have me hope that humanity would not spend so much energy on a thing that did not exist.

Please double check my math acording to a=6,b=12,
united states of americas year=1776
john kennedy shot=1122(nov 22)
murder of martin luther king jr=1968
year of normandy france invasion=1944
man to moon=720(july 20)
if any names, dates, or places are misspelled or miscalculated please let me know.

reply to post by Tyler 720


Hey you know what? Now I realized something. I was missing something that whole time and that was it. No you're very right. That's the English base 6. So it comes up as years too! And hey skeptics there is noise in this data of course as with any information theory related phenomena, but the holy phrases make music. I've been trying to tell people this. Not only are different topics related but now I have realized that they form dates. Design. Design. Before you go and say that this is Satanic or something along those lines this must be used to calculate the Beast.

Revelation: 13:18: "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six."

Remember Revelation means not apocalypse but "to reveal." To reveal the end times meanings that would one day by the last generation be revealed.

Mark 4:22 "For nothing is hidden, except to be revealed; nor has anything been secret, but that it would come to light.

Luke 8:17 "For nothing is hidden that will not become evident, nor anything secret that will not be known and come to light.

Luke 12:2 "But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known

Matthew 10:26 "Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known."

[edit on 1-5-2009 by watchtheashes]

Glad to help. have you checked the message i left on your "page". I dont know about computers but i think i left you a message somehow. I have more stuff on paper than what i could find on the internet. check your name on ats.

reply to post by Tyler 720


Alright I will do that. I rarely check my ATS mail since we're on a forum you know...but I'm about to do that.

Mark 13:23 "But take you heed: behold, I have foretold you all things."

Matthew 24:6 "But of that DAY and HOUR knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

The Feast of Trumpets is not known until the New Moon is sighted by the Rabbi for declaration. Therefore of that DAY or HOUR knoweth know man. The month and the year can be.

Chapter Esdras 12

And it came to pass, whiles the lion spake these words unto the eagle, I saw,

2And, behold, the head that remained and the four wings appeared no more, and the two went unto it and set themselves up to reign, and their kingdom was small, and fill of uproar.

3And I saw, and, behold, they appeared no more, and the whole body of the eagle was burnt so that the earth was in great fear: then awaked I out of the trouble and trance of my mind, and from great fear, and said unto my spirit,

4Lo, this hast thou done unto me, in that thou searchest out the ways of the Highest.

5Lo, yet am I weary in my mind, and very weak in my spirit; and little strength is there in me, for the great fear wherewith I was afflicted this night.

6Therefore will I now beseech the Highest, that he will comfort me unto the end.

7And I said, Lord that bearest rule, if I have found grace before thy sight, and if I am justified with thee before many others, and if my prayer indeed be come up before thy face;

8Comfort me then, and shew me thy servant the interpretation and plain difference of this fearful vision, that thou mayest perfectly comfort my soul.

9For thou hast judged me worthy to shew me the last times.

10And he said unto me, This is the interpretation of the vision:

11The eagle, whom thou sawest come up from the sea, is the kingdom which was seen in the vision of thy brother Daniel.

12But it was not expounded unto him, therefore now I declare it unto thee.

13Behold, the days will come, that there shall rise up a kingdom upon earth, and it shall be feared above all the kingdoms that were before it.

14In the same shall twelve kings reign, one after another:

15Whereof the second shall begin to reign, and shall have more time than any of the twelve.

16And this do the twelve wings signify, which thou sawest.

17As for the voice which thou heardest speak, and that thou sawest not to go out from the heads but from the midst of the body thereof, this is the interpretation:

18That after the time of that kingdom there shall arise great strivings, and it shall stand in peril of failing: nevertheless it shall not then fall, but shall be restored again to his beginning.

19And whereas thou sawest the eight small under feathers sticking to her wings, this is the interpretation:

20That in him there shall arise eight kings, whose times shall be but small, and their years swift.

21And two of them shall perish, the middle time approaching: four shall be kept until their end begin to approach: but two shall be kept unto the end.

22And whereas thou sawest three heads resting, this is the interpretation:

23In his last days shall the most High raise up three kingdoms, and renew many things therein, and they shall have the dominion of the earth,

24And of those that dwell therein, with much oppression, above all those that were before them: therefore are they called the heads of the eagle.

25For these are they that shall accomplish his wickedness, and that shall finish his last end.

26And whereas thou sawest that the great head appeared no more, it signifieth that one of them shall die upon his bed, and yet with pain.

27For the two that remain shall be slain with the sword.

28For the sword of the one shall devour the other: but at the last shall he fall through the sword himself.

29And whereas thou sawest two feathers under the wings passing over the head that is on the right side;

30It signifieth that these are they, whom the Highest hath kept unto their end: this is the small kingdom and full of trouble, as thou sawest.

31And the lion, whom thou sawest rising up out of the wood, and roaring, and speaking to the eagle, and rebuking her for her unrighteousness with all the words which thou hast heard;

32This is the anointed, which the Highest hath kept for them and for their wickedness unto the end: he shall reprove them, and shall upbraid them with their cruelty.

33For he shall set them before him alive in judgment, and shall rebuke them, and correct them.

34For the rest of my people shall he deliver with mercy, those that have been pressed upon my borders, and he shall make them joyful until the coming of the day of judgment, whereof I have spoken unto thee from the the beginning.

35This is the dream that thou sawest, and these are the interpretations.

36Thou only hast been meet to know this secret of the Highest.

37Therefore write all these things that thou hast seen in a book, and hide them:

38And teach them to the wise of the people, whose hearts thou knowest may comprehend and keep these secrets.

39But wait thou here thyself yet seven days more, that it may be shewed thee, whatsoever it pleaseth the Highest to declare unto thee. And with that he went his way.

40And it came to pass, when all the people saw that the seven days were past, and I not come again into the city, they gathered them all together, from the least unto the greatest, and came unto me, and said,

41What have we offended thee? and what evil have we done against thee, that thou forsakest us, and sittest here in this place?

42For of all the prophets thou only art left us, as a cluster of the vintage, and as a candle in a dark place, and as a haven or ship preserved from the tempest.

43Are not the evils which are come to us sufficient?

44If thou shalt forsake us, how much better had it been for us, if we also had been burned in the midst of Sion?

45For we are not better than they that died there. And they wept with a loud voice. Then answered I them, and said,

46Be of good comfort, O Israel; and be not heavy, thou house of Jacob:

47For the Highest hath you in remembrance, and the Mighty hath not forgotten you in temptation.

48As for me, I have not forsaken you, neither am I departed from you: but am come into this place, to pray for the desolation of Sion, and that I might seek mercy for the low estate of your sanctuary.

[edit on 1-5-2009 by watchtheashes]