"Gun Control is the Only Answer"

Originally posted by bigfoot1212
reply to post by starskipper

 

yes we had that also. jenna is with you on that one too. but also in stores that sell guns the employees are also supposed to be trained to see if someone is upset or on drugs etc. does this always work? hell no. nothing ever does. even the police are trained for that and don't do a good job 1/2 the time. but if an employee believes that a person has malicious intent he has the right to refuse to sell them a gun and call the police and let them decide. in pa we cannot be declined to buy a gun or a ccw if we have no reason to be denied. that is law. but businesses also have the right to refuse to give their services to anyone they feel like for NO reason (other than the usual discrimination reasons) lol
perfect example- my friend had a few beers- was not drunk- but went to buy ammo before hunting season and the clerk smelled it on him and refused to sell him any. that is responsibility by the clerk. my friend didn't get upset but he paid for it and the clerk said he would hold it and he could pick it up when he hadn't been drinking. then the police pulled him over(after the clerk called the police) and he wasn't over the legal limit- so other than having a big hassle nothing happened. but the CLERK took the responsibility to NOT sell an item he believed would have endangered someone. i commend him for that
and in reply to bumblebee- you need a lesson on just what exactly AUTOMATIC means
it means when you depress the trigger 1 round is let off and another AUTOMATICALLY chambers
there are 4 types i know of -semi (1 round)
tri-burst (3 rounds at once)
5 burst (what the us is going too)
and full (that is what people think of when they hear automatic)
jsut because it is automatic does not mean that you can spray bullets


tri-burst (3 rounds)

I was not aware of the 5 burst type, but the others I was and I am aware of what Automatic means.

I agree that the clerk should be commended. It is a shame that so many people abuse clerks for just doing their job though. Your friend should be commended also. Not many people would behave like that. Most people act as though they are being stripped of their basic rights as a human being and are being robbed in public.

My argument still stands though. The idea is that with an automatic, you don't need to chamber the next round manually, just release the trigger, aim and depress the trigger again.
For example, if another round takes an extra half a sec to chamber, the next victim has an extra half second to react, the 3rd has an extra second, the fourth one and a half seconds, ect.
In that time, a lot can happen. More time for people to escape and the shooter can be taken down by others quicker because there is more time between shots. Less blood is shed.
Smaller clip sizes also slow the shooter down in this regard.

I'm not saying ban guns. I'm saying restrict the number of rounds that can be fired in a given time, and lives WILL be saved.

EDIT - Those saying that criminals will still be able to get a hold of Automatics are correct. They will be more expensive and rarer though, and as time goes on, they will become rarer still. The rarer, the better.

[edit on 16/2/08 by GBBumblebee]

Well we are going to need to ban machine shops. A good metal worker can make just about anything for a firearm.

Roper

ok bumble bee- what about revolvers? all i have to do is pull the trigger same as an auto. i can shoot my 357 as fast as i can my 45. my 45 only holds 7+1 and 357 is 6. so initially i have 2 extra rounds but after reloading i only have 1 also i can get a speed loader for the 357 and reload quickly. recoil is one of the biggest issues people don't understand that affects how fast and accurately you can shoot. it doesn't matter how fast your gun can fire it is bullet placement. called sniping. also the intimidation factor of staring down a barrel with someone willing to kill you is huge and 99% of people will cower in fear even when he/she has to stop and reload or wait for the person to work a bolt use the pump etc
btw i did shoot a snipe once-they are quick little buggers!!!! lol

We should not blame people with mental disabilities for having problems and seeking treatment.

But right now is very nice to point out also that the effort and extend that this present government is taking to disarm our vets coming from Iraq while tagging them with post dramatic mental disorders is also another way to keep the second amendment from this side of society that had been trained by our government to used them.

kind of putting a stop to any militia that can form from veterans that has seen what a joke our government has become.

We can not even dismiss this as just a way to protect society is more of a conspiracy than anything else.

Does anybody remember when the Bush administration wanted to have families screned for mental disorders earlier in his presidency to help families get treatment earlier? well this was even before than the 9/11 and Iraq, so yes We should not blame people with mental disabilities for having problems and seeking treatment, but should they be tagged?.

Bush established the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health in April 2002 to conduct a "comprehensive study of the United States mental health service delivery system." The commission issued its recommendations in July 2003. Bush instructed more than 25 federal agencies to develop an implementation plan based on those recommendations.

The president's commission found that "despite their prevalence, mental disorders often go undiagnosed" and recommended comprehensive mental health screening for "consumers of all ages," including preschool children. According to the commission, "Each year, young children are expelled from preschools and childcare facilities for severely disruptive behaviours and emotional disorders." Schools, wrote the commission, are in a "key position" to screen the 52 million students and 6 million adults who work at the schools.

www.worldnetdaily.com...

www.csmonitor.com...

We can not even dismiss this as just a way to protect society is more of a conspiracy than anything elses something was alredy in the air to keep Americans weaponless.

Interesting how this things comes together this administration has been working date and night to find a way to keep Americans without their 2 amendment, because they knew already what they have been planing for our nation.

I remember that Reagan & followed by Cinton, a lot of mentallly challenged people were kicked out of their 'programs'---
treatment centers which both kept these fringe people off the streets and also supervised them in taking their medications ... became vacant,
for the good of the budget/taxpayer

We're lucky that the number of enraged and non-medicated people
who were once determined to be needfull of constant supervision...
are not making the acts of shooting innocent & unarmed students
more of a pastime ...



for every action there is a re-action

reply to post by Melbourne_Militia


Well, it all depends on where you live in the US. Here in Chicago you can't have anything outside of a shotgun or hunting rifle. And you must be licensed and your guns must be registered.

Chicago is one of our big cities leading this "police state" style charge against our gun rights.

reply to post by Roper


Don't forget to ban dremel tools and hacksaws also you can make the majority of parts for a firearms with a dremel and a hacksaw add in a drill and heck you got yourself a full on gunshop people have made guns almost completely without tools using 1/4 3/8 and 1/2 inch NPT tubing for ever in fact the inside diameter of 3/4 NPT is the proper size for a 12 guage so while we are banning stuff we should also ban all metal pipe well maybe not copper pipe but you see where I am going you can't make the whole world child proof if you did we would all be driving nerf (yes as in the NERF football)cars...

Like I have said in other posts you can have my guns when you change the constitution and when you do that I am moving some where warmer where you can own firearms..


Respectfully
GEO

reply to post by geocom


You give to much power to the Constitution. The Right to Bear Arms is not granted by the Constitution but by our Creator(s)/Nature/Aliens/Robots/God/Magic Monkey/Spaghetti Monster etc.. wha Our Right to Bear Arms stems solely from our existence. If they change the Constitution it's fine to move but by the time that happens you may not be allowed to move!

reply to post by tac109


Yeah, but you can only kil so many people with a knife before someone takes you down. A gun is another matter all together.

J.

reply to post by kattraxx


The 2nd Amendment originates from a time when the US had no standing army of any consequence. To try to use the 2nd as some sort of legal pretext for gun ownership is crazy. Here's what the 2nd was really about...

"The attitude of Americans toward the military was much different in the 1790's than it is today. Standing armies were mistrusted, as they had been used as tools of oppression by the monarchs of Europe for centuries. In the war for independence, there had been a regular army, but much of the fighting had been done by the state militias, under the command of local officers. Aside from the war, militias were needed because attacks were relatively common, whether by bandits, Indians, and even by troops from other states.

Today, the state militias have evolved into the National Guard in every state. These soldiers, while part-time, are professionally trained and armed by the government. No longer are regular, non-Guardsmen, expected to take up arms in defense of the state or the nation (though the US Code does still recognize the unorganized militia as an entity, and state laws vary on the subject [10 USC 311]).

This is in great contrast to the way things were at the time of adoption of the 2nd Amendment. Many state constitutions had a right to bear arms for the purposes of the maintenance of the militia. Many had laws that required men of age to own a gun and supplies, including powder and bullets."

www.usconstitution.net...

J.

we will never reach an agreement on this- but remember this- if you are armed in times of warfare you are no longer a "citizen" and whatever military force hostile to you has the right to take you out.
so it is your choice if you are willing to have that happen.
as for me? yep
and take as many with me as i can
also i can't imagine killing a deer by jumping out of tree and slitting it's throat- good luck
i would rather be kicked by a horse(which i have been which is one reason i hate them lol) than by a deer- the power in their legs and small hooves are a deadly combination
i want my guns and stay at a safe distance and protect myself and others if need be

reply to post by jimbo999


The National Guard lost it's status as a technical militia once it was positioned to be federalized and sent to fight war on foreign soil, an offensive war. If the National Guard is off in Iraq or Afghanistan when the SHTF than it once again falls to local citizenry to organize and take the needed actions in time of crisis. If anything the 2nd amendment applies even more so now that the organized "State Militia" has essentially been turned into the Federal Army.

As far as standing Armies,they still are used for the same thing they have always been used for and are not really necessary for the defense of a free State in the form that we have in the US currently. Take a look at the size of Germany's army or Italy. And yet they have not been invaded and turned into whatever example you may choose to argue the need for a Military like the US. In fact, not counting the US there are only three other country's that currently have a Military capable of true offensive capabilities and all of them also happen to be resisting American Empire. China, Russia, and North Korea.

The 2nd Amendment is clear and easy to understand especially when taking into account what our Founders had already dealt with and the idea that Human rights come from Nature and cannot be created by government, only taken away.

When discussing the invasion of the USA the Japanese decided it would be a poor choice because "there would be a gun behind every blade of grass".

reply to post by Tinhatman


"high 5's for you!!!!"
couldn't have said it better

Should people be afraid of their government, or should the government be afraid of their people? If you think the latter, don't take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens.

Trying to impose gun control is like trying impose abstinence.

Unless you've never experienced IT in the first place, gun control/abstinence can never work because once you've had IT, it would be extremely difficult to try to live without IT.

I think the true culprit is actually a combo of everything from the narcissitic victim mentality of the Generation Y kids that are never wrong, and lack a good work ethic, the babyboomer parents that gave them everything they wanted, the video games that keep coming out with their "life is cheap" message, the meds that are falsely prescribed and over consumed, and the guns they falsely believe will solve all problems.

Nut shell, society as whole should be blamed.



[edit on 18-2-2008 by Alxandro]

It is clear from the following quotes that a few of the school shooters were serious tin-foil nutters. One of them, Jeff Weise, was even a regular poster on ATS. The question is, can too much of an obsession with 'conspiracy theory' be causing these acts of gun violence? Perhaps it is time to start regulating anti-government websites.



Andrew Wurst 14, Edinborough, PA, 4-24-98 Parker Middle School(at off-campus school dance); 1 dead, 3 wounded

"Other people are programmed to act and say what the government, mad scientists, or a psycho wants them to say."



Jeff Weise, 18 Red Lake HS, MN 3-21-05 10 dead
blog posting
"The Government sucks all the freedom from the people, those willing to lay down their lives for the reinstallation of stability and everything they've lost since their enslavement rise from silence. A sleeping giant is awaken. There are many events that could lead to the government sucking our freedom up. A terrorist attack occurs, the Bill of Rights and Constitution are suspended, martial law ensues. Civil unrest occurs as a result of the "every man for themselves" nation-wide order. The Government starts rounding up individuals they deem as a "threat" and hold them indefintely. Conflicts between militias and government hired-guns flare up as the people fear the US has plunged into a police state."




Kimveer Gill, 25, Montreal, Dawson College 9-13-06 4 dead, 13 wounded
quote from Kimveer's postings:

"The governments of the world keep lying to the people of the world, and the people believe it. Come on folks, WAKE UP!! They're using fear tactics to keep you pacified, and all those who ask questions suddenly disappear. Am i the only one in the world who can see these things.
Guess I am ."



From the MySpace page of Dillon Cossey, 14, Plymouth Township(near Philadelphia)
[arrested for school shooting plot 10-10-07]

--founded something called the 'Imperial Cobra Army.' He wrote the group's cause is "to overthrow the corupt and evil governments of today and bring about a new world order of tommorow."



Pekka Eric Auvinen, Jokela HS, Tuusuula, Finland 11-7-07 9 dead
from web posting

"People just turn into a damn robots who don't realize what's going on."






[edit on 18-2-2008 by starviego]

Originally posted by Tinhatman
reply to post by jimbo999

 

"there would be a gun behind every blade of grass".

That's part of the reason why nobody plays games with the Swiss. All Swiss citizens are members of the National Malitia by Law and by law are required to own a firearm.

reply to post by starviego


Perhaps people like you that think regulation is the cure for what ails you should be regulated.

Mankind should refrain from impossing one set of ideals on a mass of people unless it is absolutley needed. Otherwise we will soon loose all freedoms to the idea that total governance is the only way to be truely safe. Which any sain person can see is just not possible no matter what you do bad things will always happen. It's just the way it is.

I wish it wasn't but to believe otherwise is just plain old crazy. There is no such thing as a Utopia.... At least not in this existance. So if you want one you had better start praying to what ever GOD you would like to pick. I recommend Jesus there are alot of "REGULATIONS" in my religion. I'm not fond of some but you can't argue with GOD can you?????

I was just being sarcastic. More likely these blog posts could have been little 'inside jokes' on the part of the mind-controllers and covert operators that I really believe are behind all this.

like i said noone will ever take my guns from me- whether i have to hide them and lie where they went i don't care. i need them to protect myself and others from criminals, tyranny, other countries etc. and i need them for hunting purposes. believe me if it came down to it and i had a deer in my camp you would be thanking god i have a gunand knowhow to use it and have hunting skills. and if i was in a gracious mood i might even let you have some if i felt you weren't a threat. but don't bet on that