ATS.MIX: Above Politics Show 03

Above Politics Show 03

The AP boys, Martin and Justin, discuss the impact of the most recent primaries of the U. S. 2008 Presidential races. ATS Member Dorian Gray wins the trivia challenge for a second time, becoming the reigning 'boffin'. (D.G. is from the U.K) A new political trivia question is put to AP listeners. Justin fears Hillary Clinton without her pantsuit. Martin tells all about Proportional Representation in Europe, and why it might be good for the United States. Would there be riots in the streets if Barack Obama did NOT win his party's nomination? Would the feminists get mad if Hillary got snubbed? Find out what Martin and Justin think in this show.



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length: 34:40
file: atsmix_2818.mp3
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[edit on 2/15/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

1500 POINTS EACH !!! i see how it is, let me win only 500 on the first two and then choose a hard one to put me in my place lol. Martin, any clues on the spelling, done a google search fit, done atleast 40 searchs and got nothing.

Take Care guys, and Great podcast as always.
Ill take a stab at it before i go to work, so far...Ireland. But ill keep looking.

Dorian Gray

[edit on 15-2-2008 by Dorian Gray]

reply to post by Dorian Gray

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Yeah, same here. Google is NO help for this one! lol

Martin & Justin - Thanks for the shout-out on the debate between Animal and I! It is my first debate EVER, and it's pretty cool to hear you guys suggest that our debate skills are better than Hillary's! I made my closing statement yesterday, so Animal should have his in sometime today, too. So we will have a winner announced sometime very soon. I really recommend that everybody check it out, not just cuz it's something I am a part of, but because the topic is something we should all have an awareness of, and the back-and-forth between Animal and I has been quite thrilling. The man puts up a good fight, and I have thoroughly enjoyed debating him.

Congrats on your third show! It's really shaping up to be a great program! I will be listening in!

Well..... the GOOD NEWS Dorian, is that you are kicking butt in their games..... the BAD NEWS is that I thought Applause Points were 1,500, when in reality, they are only 500. So, apologies to everyone.... but you will receive 500 points for winning the little games the boys are playing. IF something comes along that merits a big competition...... Mega-Points will be awarded similar to what we did in the ATS MIX Caption Contests.

Dave

[edit on 2/15/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

As I have said before, don't give up so quickly, and if I spell it, it would be a race to google.

I will give it a few days and if no one is getting close, I will post a clue.


Justin and I must take the rap for the error on the applause points, we just got carried away!!!!

And thanks for listening.

[edit on 15-2-2008 by Martin Bain]

Well, shucks. We're all so very excited about the success and future prospects of THE ABOBE POLITICS SHOW that we can't sit still. I can barely keep up with the message traffic. Tell your neighbors, tell your friends. Help us get the word out!

We have the opportunity to develope something that will do more than entertain. We have a shot at shot at denying ignorance, which is the ATS creed.

As I look around ATS, Above Politics, and Below Politics, I read post after post of "why doesn't somebody do something? We need change, darn it!"

Well, here it is. A chance to "do" something and make some of that change...darn it.

Republic Of Ireland. Here is my proof. Thanks for the mention guys, and i havnt bugged your homes lol.

Dorian Gray

[edit on 15-2-2008 by Dorian Gray]

[edit on 15-2-2008 by Dorian Gray]

Nice one mentioning Proportional Representation which has become one of my favourite political topics. After I am over the Flu I might have something more enlightening to say on the topic.

Cheers xpert11.

reply to post by xpert11

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Lets hope you get well soon xpert11 and look forward to your comments and views on PR.

While I am dealing with the generation donation of the Flu feel free to check out my podcast that deals with how MMP and CFR would effect the US political landscape .

I just finished listening to Show 03, and once again I need to go back and listen again before I can comment on many parts of it. But there are several points that I would like to start discussion on.

Martin, thank you for the discussion on proportional representation. I had always looked at the plus side of the concept, esp. since we have several states like California that are delegate-rich, and are the plums of the election. But you brought up some of the negatives of proportional representation, which had never occurred to me.

However, all one needs to do is to skim ATS and PTS and you will see the frustration that the voters have with the two-party system. Many times, they see no difference in the choices between the entrenched D's and R's, and rightfully so. Lesser known candidates such as Ron Paul stand no chance against an established machine. Third party candidates are relegated to the position of spoilers.

It seems to me that proportional representation is one method of breaking this two-party anointed candidate monopoly. What would the race look like if every state had proportional representation? It might be an entirely differently playing field. Romney would almost positively still be in the race, imo.

Second issue: Justin, you seemed to shy away from the upcoming drama that may be the DNC? The issue of whether Florida and Michigan delegates should accept their exile is a very important one, and may ultimately decide the election. Don't be shy - Throw down!

Till later,

reply to post by jsobecky

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You have captured on of the key elements that Justin and I want to bring to the show, jsobecky, and this is to make people think, research and then think sone more. I mentioned Italy as an example of proportional representation (PR) as it is one end of the scale. PR does make Italian politics very interesting and you raised the point of voters being frustrated with the two-party system. What is interesting is that the D's use PR for to elect their presidential candidate but I have not heard anything about them wanting to change the national election system, that said I can not see how PR can work for the election of a president, as that is for a single office and can not be shared.

Where PR might work is for elections to Congress and each party could have a list of candidates for each state. The flip side of this, you lose the connection with a local candidate who has worked to build their repution in a given area.

And in the UK, we suffer from the similar frustration with our 3 "main" party system.

The question I feel needs address is what is in it for our elected representitives to change the current system?

And thanks for listening, not once but twice!!!!

Did i get the question right or not ?

Dorian Gray

[edit on 16-2-2008 by Dorian Gray]

Dorian: you'll have to forgive Martin. He buzzed through here so fast that he must have missed your answer. We are very busy behind the scenes. So far as I know, you did get the answer right.

Time flies when you're having fun. We're doing our best to stick with a thirty minute format (for now). I held back because we needed enough wiggle room to get the whole Proportional Representation thing on the table. Martin has more experience with that than I do, so he needed room to run. I think he did an excellent job of summarizing in the time we had, so I don't feel bad about saving some of my ammunition for a later show.

For those who don't know, we had two States that moved the dates of their primary elections up to a much earlier point on the calender. Michigan and Florida broke Democratic party rules by doing this. The Democratic National Committee (DNC) penalized them for that by saying that their delegates won't be counted at the nominating convention.

There are some nasty politics involved. The DNC demanded that none of the Democratic party candidate should campaign in Florida or Michigan. they abided by this 'order,' but...

Michigan's Governor moved his State's primary. That 's been seen as a rather autocratic move. There was some support in Michigan for this move. A lot of the population is mad at the DNC for what they feel is unjust punishment. to make matters more interesting, Hillary Clinton's name was still put on the Michigan ballot. No suprise that she "won."

Now, here comes the hard part.

Florida's LEGISLATURE voted to move that State's primary, and the general public liked the idea. Their Governor went along with it, too. Seems that most of Florida was ready to give the DNC a kick in the pants. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama appeared on the ballot, and Mrs. Clinton won.

The voters in Michigan and Florida are mad at the DNC. It's hard to see how the Michigan situation is going to be resolved...but...The folks in Florida have got themseles some real leverage AND they've called in the lawyers.

Senator Clinton obviously wants those Florida delegates because she won. Obama doesn't want her to have them, so he is siding with the DNC.

JUSTIN SAYS....The Democratic party has no control over when States want to vote. I know the Dems like big government, but come on!

The simple fact of the matter is that the people of Florida jumped through all the hoops. they crossed their t's and dotted their i's, so to speak. Because the matter was fairly and openly debated by their elected leadership before it was voted on, we KNOW that the DNC had its chance to weigh in. We also know that the people of Florida had their say.

A bill was sent to the Governor, and he signed it. Because the entire process was out in the open, for all to see, I says....even if I don't care for Hillary...she's entitled to those delegates because that's what the people of Florida honestly decided.

[edit on 16-2-2008 by Justin_Case]

My Thoughts on Proportional Representation .

Those who have followed my posts will know most of this but I will still post my thoughts here. New Zealand adopted Mixed Member Proportional in the 90s . The risk of extremists gaining representation is far outweighed by the fact that the system forces comprise(SP?) on those who have the numbers to govern .

As for the party's that have either gained over 5% of the party vote or gained an electoral seat the only one that could come close to being a threat rather then misguided is the Maori Party . The Maori Party supported the suspects rather then the police during last year anti terrorism raids. The government does not fall to bits between elections.

So far the political right has been disadvantaged by a lack of coalition partners .

Ok, thanks. Given that, I'll wait till you speak of it on a later show. Nice prelude you've supplied. tho.

Dorian, you are smokin with these trivia questions, man! Congratulations! I'll have to call unfair advantage since you can parse Martin's accent better, being from the same side of the pond. Btw, what was the correct answer?

I appreciate your patience, and I'll do my best to get back to that one soon. In the mean time, help us get the word out about THE ABOVE POLITICS SHOW.

It'll be my turn this coming week to throw out the next triva challenge.

The answer to my question will be revealed on The next Above Politics Show

I'm glad that so many people are enjoying the show. We have started the preps for #4. Busy busy busy.