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Originally posted by miriam0566
looked over the catechism for a few hours, mostly just browsing. its funny though that not everything is backed up scripturally. the doctrine that conflicts with scripture either has no scriptural reference or it references some writing after the bible.
Originally posted by The angel of light
Let me leave Jacob Bronowski, one of the most recognized philosphers of Science of the XX century to respond your comment.
miriam0565
Well it is logical than when there are no solid elements to discredit a person or an institution the most desperate action is to try to insult it systematically.
the ark of covenant was only seen by the high priest and only once a year. other than that, it was hidden in the most holy compartment. god was said to reside above it between the 2 cherubs, not in it. so no, its not an idol
Congratulations, you have learnt the lesson I taught very well, it is even for me so difficutl to find a better argument to refute Luther's worst error and most dubious accusations against the Roman Church.
Originally posted by EricD
I at least hold out some hope that people can say 'I disagree, but I see their point'.
1 Tim 2:1-2 - because Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5), many Protestants deny the Catholic belief that the saints on earth and in heaven can mediate on our behalf. But before Paul's teaching about Jesus as the "one mediator," Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why?
1 Tim 2:3 - because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ's role as mediator.
1 Tim. 2:5 - therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).
Cyclopædia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, by M’Clintock and Strong, points out that the invocation of “saints” lacks Scriptural support, was unknown to the early Church and was “expressly condemned by the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 481) and by the early fathers.” Though advocates cite certain “Church fathers” and ancient liturgies, this cyclopædia observes: “It must be remembered that they are only unscriptural additions, and that they originated after the infusion into the Church system of Alexandrian Neoplatonism and Oriental Magianism, which left its traces even in the most orthodox form of Christian worship, and creed also, up to the 4th and 5th centuries, a period in the history of the Christian Church when heresies were, to use a common phrase, almost the order of the day.”
Quite a few of the older Catholic saints were actually pagan gods that were re-imaged into "saints" as their pagan followers were forced into Catholicism. Basically, it was a way for the people to retain their own gods, who they knew about and were comfortable with, while being Christian at the same time.
One of the most obvious examples of this is St. Bridgit of Ireland. This Christian saint happens to have a religious sanctuary in Kildare dedicated to her. However, before that sanctuary had become a Christian site, it was a pagan temple dedicated to the Celtic goddess Brigid. Both the priestesses of the goddess Brigid and the nuns in the order of St. Bridgit have tended a sacred eternal flame in the sanctuary.
There were also a number of "sacred wells" that were originally dedicated to the goddess Brigid that are now associated with St. Bridgit.
African-American slaves did something very similar with their gods when they were forced to practice Catholicism by their masters. They began to pray to Catholic saints instead of their old gods, but they associated each saint with one of their old gods. This eventually became the religion known today as Santeria.
Originally posted by EricD
Why would you insist that those who are dead can not hear your requests to pray for you? Do you have any scriptural basis for that?
Originally posted by VIKINGANT
Originally posted by EricD
Why would you insist that those who are dead can not hear your requests to pray for you? Do you have any scriptural basis for that?
This is a question I would like answered. As I have asked in another thread, when we die, do we go straight to heaven or do we wait? If we go straight to heaven, then it is possible that they can hear us, otherwise, it is a complete waste of time praying to dead 'saints'.