How does the Catholic Church get away with it?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox



Regarding everything I have ever read, that you have written in various posts, there has rarely come a nice thing out of your mouth (fingers, in this case). I have seen many people's heart exposed in many threads, but your has stood out among them all. It doesn't mean I dislike you, but have you taken a deep look at yourself and the things you vent toward people? It is as if you have a deep seated hatred at the core of your heart for anything that professes to be faith or, religion. I have to ask myself, what has caused that to surface as it has?

Revelation 13:3 "I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast;"

This was the destruction of Hitler and the Nazi's and will make a comeback in America.



Revelation 13:4 "they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"

Revelation 13:5 "There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him."

Who is the most arrogant government today? Who continues to refer to themselves as "leader of the free world". Who is the accuser, the one who collects information to use against you? America and their anti terror laws are a front to accuse you.


REVELATION 17:8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.

America is following the exact same blueprint Hitler and the Nazi's used to rise to power. America as a Nazi nation would be the scariest possible scenario but it's coming.


The Catholic Church is part of the beasts Church not Jesus' Church.

Lets leave aside the calumnies against the Catholic Church for now.

Do you have any serious research to back up your claims? Anything other than the drivel you are offering up here? Any eschatological studies you can point us to?

What makes the US more blasphemous than, say, the former Soviet Union?

Hasn't the US been enacting their current policy for more than 3.5 years?

Wouldn't you consider the UN to be more arrogant than the US? What about Iran? How about Russia?

There is a much stronger resurgence of Nazism in Europe than in the US. Wouldn't they be a better fit?

Is there anything that makes your unsupported claims more than a pet theory that allows you to indulge in your hatred of the Catholic Church?

Eric

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
All you guys need to stop persecuting the Christians. You're all terrible, immoral people in service to Satan. I'll pray for you! You're just like the Nazis. Next you'll be gassing the poor Christians in camps!

...Bwahahahaha.

For real, what the hell is this with people hating on the Catholics? Especially people who profess to not know much about Catholics, at that! Why does nobody gripe about hte Calvinists or the Baptists? 'Cause frankly there are crazier, scarier protestants than Catholics, I would think.

WalkingFox.....PLEASE pray for us, and everyone for that matter.

God IS listening.

reply to post by jdposey


Yeah, never mind that you're participating in a thread bashing Catholics (Who are, y'know, Christians...). Instead let's bark at me for not being as sugary as you'd like.

You don't find it ridiculous that a thread with no purpose other than to attack Catholics - not just the Church organization, but Catholics in general - has attracted a few of the site's big "Christian Soldiers" to join in the slapping session? I do. Do you feel justified to harp at me for my "hatred towards religion" while you yourself joined on the bandwagon to attack Catholics?

And you see nothing peculiar there? Nothing deserving of some fun-poking at your expense - and at the expense of others who make a show of their righteousness by attacking their fellow Christians?

Well, well, well.....I consider myself Catholic and I'm not nearly offended as you seem to be!

Anyway, I'm not here to defend the faith, per se. There's been quite a bit of erroneous information posted about catholics, Baptists, and other holy rollers---.

Discussion is productive. Hatred destroys.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Go back and read my post on the first page. I was not attacking anyone. I was addressing the wide range of beliefs that exist today and my personal resolution to that. Grant it, I probably did open a can of worms by addressing you personally and should not have.

As for viciously attacking anyone here, that was never my intention, if it has been perceived that way. As far as addressing you in my post, I just caught sight of something that bothered me about you and it wasn't something that irritated me or made my blood boil. It was more of a concern as to why you appear to be so aggressive in the majority of your posts. Nothing more than that.

reply to post by jdposey



JD, I think your posts are quite all right.

It's hard to get through to some folks but I think you handled yourself rather well.

I think Walking Fox is very bright but maybe very young. He/she obviously has tons of energy

reply to post by deenamarie53


Well, truth is, I could care less about what anyone says about Catholics. I think you guys are a little weird, myself What bugs me though, is the hypocrisy.

Jdposey,

I'm "aggressive" because that's how I am. Everyone has their own little style.

reply to post by EricD


Eric, Eric, Eirc,
Do you have a comfy saddle? I don’t want you to be uncomfortable up on your high horse.
I apologise if my thought process is not the same as yours but let us just get a few things into perspective shall we.
You appear to be an intelligent person and reasonably educated so lets start be reading my opening post again. This time try and read what IS written and try not to read what ISN’T written.
I did not at any point say that I was a theological scholar or that I had all the answers. Nor did I say that these listed items were an attack on the Catholic Church or that it was evil.
What I did say was “Please correct me if I am wrong” which you no doubt have tried to do. Albeit with a little unnecessary venom.
These issues are merely things that non Catholic (and even some Catholic) people have queried over time and I thought I might ask here for some further opinions and try to get some background on some rituals and traditions. As you see from the various posters there are a lot of opinions on the subject so it is quite hypocritical of you to try and silence others peoples thoughts.
Yes I do have back up info but if I gave all the answers in my opening post it wouldn’t leave much room for discussion would it?
One thing I do admit is that I may have posed the question a little dramatically but it seemed to get peoples attention so I guess its not all bad.
Having said all that, Thank you for your thoughts and I admire your enthusiasm.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by deenamarie53

 

Well, truth is, I could care less about what anyone says about Catholics. I think you guys are a little weird, myself

What bugs me though, is the hypocrisy.

Jdposey,

I'm "aggressive" because that's how I am. Everyone has their own little style.

Well, the way you feel WalkingFox is yours to hold and I respect your feelings.....Hey, at least I try!

I'm curious about the hypocrisy that you mentioned. By people who believe in Jesus...or what? I'm new to ATS so I'm not sure where you're coming from.

Weird...moi? LOL, yes I guess I am even to myself!


Peace!

reply to post by VIKINGANT


I, for one, am glad you posted the topic.

Maybe from here on out those that want to post their comments will do so without feeling threatened. Besides, it's a forum---no one is going to come into your home to convert your soul.

Thanx for posting.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by jdposey

 

Yeah, never mind that you're participating in a thread bashing Catholics

WalkingFox,
This is not a Catholic bashing exercise. (At least that was not my intention) but an opportunity for catholics to clear up some perhaps misconceived ideas about the church and for others to put forward some of thier own queries and quandries.
As a side question, I am curious as to your personal religious beliefs. I have seen you over several threads defending whichever religion is being badmouthed on the day but have never offered your viewpoint. I am guessing this is intentional?

P.S. Thank you deenamarie53


[edit on 17/2/2008 by VIKINGANT]

reply to post by VIKINGANT


Thanks for asking! I special order my saddles, so it's a custom fit. The view is great up here.

So, let's look at your original post. You start out by presupposing that the Church forces all other Christian Churches to adhere to it's dictates. Step back and think about that. Seems a bit silly, doesn't it? Do you seriously think that Bob Jones is going to care what the Pope says?

How do they enforce this adherence? Are ninja Jesuits running around bullying Pastors?

Looking back on what you open with, do you now have a slightly different perspective on my response?

I like how you start your retort though! The repetition of my first name is a little supercilious, but effective.

Eric

reply to post by EricD


Eric, (Just once)
Now that you appear to have calmed down a little, (and even shown signs of a sense of humour) Catholics are the most arrogant self absorbed hypocritical religion on earth…just kidding!!
I have already admitted (at the risk of killing the thread) that I may have dramatized the opening thread a little with the issue of “forcing” the world to comply, but the queries listed are still valid to many people as are many other practices of the Church.
Having said that, and keeping in line with the control issue, I would also like to hear your take on the concept of the Vatican holding and keeping from the public a number of ancient documents including original texts of the bible for the sake of censorship or control of the masses? Please don’t ask for specifics or references. We have all heard many varying versions of the theories and seen documentaries and articles about it. This is a just generic question about the possible existence of such documents.
The reason I ask is if these docs do exist, then what right does the Vatican have to keep such information from the people? Are they keeping from us the true nature and intentions of God or the fact that he doesn’t exist? Who knows?

reply to post by VIKINGANT


I've posted before. I'm an animist / pantheist pagan and am studying shamanic methods of practice. I lean towards the traditions of my ancestors, both European and Native. I choose to not go into depth on it here for a number of reasons. First, there's not really much of a conspiracy angle to it. Second, it seems to me that the CiR forum is more or less just a place for Christians and Atheists to dump sacks of manure on each other and everyone else. And third, I'm of the mind that my beliefs are only really important to me. I do share them here and there, but I see no reason to throw the door open.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I know your background is no business of mine so thank you very much for sharing this. This info has no bearing on my opinion of you or your posts positive negative or otherwise but does (to me anyway) explain alot. I also know that whenever I see your name in a thread the responce will be passionate.

reply to post by VIKINGANT


You are correct sir. I agree with everything in your post. Praying to a flase god, not eating meat, and buying your way into heaven? It is very obvious to me that catholicism is a for profit organization.

Originally posted by VIKINGANT
These issues are merely things that non Catholic (and even some Catholic) people have queried over time and I thought I might ask here for some further opinions and try to get some background on some rituals and traditions.

Okay - if that is really the reason you posted, and since no one has actually explained them, I'll give some background - which admittedly most Catholics have not bothered to educate themselves on.

1. No meat on Friday: Friday, the day of Christs death has traditionally been a day designated to acknowledge the sacrifice made for us and therefore a day of penance. The penance was (up until Vatican II) no meat on Friday. Now it is only no meat on Ash Wednesday and Friday's in Lent. Contrary to a previous poster, this is mandatory. But Vatican II did not alleviate all other Fridays from being days of penance, it just allowed that another form, chosen by the individual may be practiced. The point of practicing this penance is a way of remembrance and acknowledgement and thanks, by offering our own suffering to God. These practices are actually a very good way of learning discipline over ourselves and helping to purify not only our own souls, but also assist in the saving of others who may have fallen away. It is however a private thing, not to be shown off to the public (like the pharisees) and is not mandatory to people who are below a certain age, above a certain age or with any illness that would be harmed by practicing it.

2. Praying to Mary and the Saints: This is not exactly accurate. We do not pray to them instead of God, we pray for their intercession with God and her Son. It is a practice of both humbleness and acknowledgement that God sent us many favors through the saints on our behalf. They can intercede for us. The best description I have heard of this is when for example a child makes a gift for Dad, then hands it to Mom to "make it perfect (wrap it up nice?) to give it to him as she can do that better than we are capable. We are not perfect, we want to offer something to God, but God is so great it is unfathamable that we can know him well enough in our imperfectness. This does not however stop us in any way from praying directly to God if we so chose.

3. Indulgences: The big dirty word no one understands, because all anyone seems to know about them is the way they were abused in the past of the Church. In fact indulgences are still practiced today, but they cannot be bought, and even the Church acknowledges the abuse of them in the past. (Which by the way probably nullified the grants of them and put the souls of the heirarchy who abused and propagated these abuses in pretty serious trouble.) For an indulgence to be granted, there must be a sincere intention (just as in confession) to cleanse the soul and move forward with the graces granted to live a better Christian life. The belief behind indulgences is that in confession your sins are forgiven, but your soul still carries the stain of it. You cannot go before God in an imperfect state. Anyone who truly believes the enormity of the greatness of God would not want to appear before him less than purified. Purgatory is a place where the soul is purified for this purpose. However, indugences can remove "the stain". Indulgences come in many forms and must be practiced sincerely to cleanse the soul, they do not require money to be obtained as there are many things that can be offered instead.

This being said, I will not debate the uninformed impressions of this. I am giving a background which is what the poster asked for. A Catholic has every right to chose the "way of the cross" just as many other Christians have the choice to chose their own path to salvation. We'll all find out in the end what really mattered and no one is being converted on ATS, so I see no point in debating these matters. I will however answer sincere questions if anything I have said needs to be clarified (but lets keep the Bible verses out of it since for every one some of you think you have that says these beliefs are wrong, there are plenty of them that says your interpretations are wrong.

God Bless you all.

Originally posted by EricD

Do you have any serious research to back up your claims? Anything other than the drivel you are offering up here? Any eschatological studies you can point us to?

Don't insult me with calling it drivel. I have conducted a ton of research, in fact I have three websites on the matter. I had made a very long post here on ATS which took 6 complete posts to explain but ATS quickly deleted my research and accused me of plagiarism unjustly I might add as I quoted myself from a couple of my websites. Anyway to make a long story short, the final beast kingdom stretches international borders and America is most certainly part of that final beast kingdom. The statue of liberty itself is Apollo, an Olympian deity, yes that means Roman, and America is part of the revived Roman Empire.

wikipedia image

Givin to us by France where there is another Statue of Liberty, a smaller version, it is undoubtedly Apollo. The statue itself derives from Libertas, ancient Rome's goddess of freedom from slavery, oppression, and tyranny. There have been found Libertas temples on the Palatine Hill and Aventine Hill, two of the Seven hills of Rome on which ancient Rome was built. You may not realize the "Nazi Salute" with the outstretched arm originated from Rome. When the term "Roman salute" developed, the straight arm salute was a decades old ritual in government schools in the USA where people were compelled to chant the Pledge Of Allegiance while outstretching their arms similarly.

Then there is the same Eagle which is represented in Roman, German, and American symbolism.

Eagles

Roman Version


German Version


American Version

Coincidence? I think not.. You can even see the same Olive Branches under each Eagle.

The final beast kingdom will stretch beyond US borders into other countries but America will be the military arm controlled by the UN.

What makes the US more blasphemous than, say, the former Soviet Union?

We call ourselves leader of the free world? We have a military more powerful then the next 10 nations put together and push our policies on others? You can see the Nazi style plans emerging again across the "Free world." What a joke...

Hasn't the US been enacting their current policy for more than 3.5 years?

Yes but not to the extent we see policies today. The government is even passing legislation to protect the American companies spying on your every activity. The Nazi's did this too but they ended up with a slew of lawsuits after WWII. Habeas Corpus is gone. Concentration camps are under construction in the USA with guess what? UN vehicles onsite here in the good old USA.

Wouldn't you consider the UN to be more arrogant than the US? What about Iran? How about Russia?

I don't know about Russia or Iran but the UN will certainly be part of the final Beast Kingdom which is the revived Roman Nazi Empire. Don't forget the Catholic church is Roman Catholic..

There is a much stronger resurgence of Nazism in Europe than in the US. Wouldn't they be a better fit?

I would assume some European countries will be some of the seven hills of Rome.

Is there anything that makes your unsupported claims more than a pet theory that allows you to indulge in your hatred of the Catholic Church?

By the way your next pope will be your last pope named Peter the Roman. Coincidence? I think not..

[edit on 19-2-2008 by libertytoall]