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Originally posted by Astrobee
1 Timothy 4:10 - Jesus Christ the Savior of all men, especially to those who believe
"What some people say on Earth is that the final loss of one soul gives the lie to all the joy of those who are saved."...
"That sounds very merciful: but see what lurks behind it."
"The damend of the loveless and the self-imprisoned that they should be allowed to blackmail the universe: that till they consent to be happy (on their own terms) no one else shall taste joy: that theirs should be the final power; that Hell should be able to veto Heaven."...
"It must be one way or the other. Either the day must come when joy prevails and all the makers of misery are no longer able to infect it: or else for ever and ever the makers of misery can destroy in others the happiness they reject for themselves. I know it has a grand sound to say ye'll accept no salvation which leaves even one creature in the dark outside. But watch that sophistry or ye'll make a Dog in a Manger the tyant of the universe."
"But dare one say - it is horrible to say - that Pity must ever die?"
"Ye must distinguish. The action of Pity will live for ever: but the passion of Pity will not. The passion of Pity, the Pity we merely suffer, the ache that draws men to concede what should not be conceded and to flatter when they should speak truth, the pity that has cheated many a woman out of her virgintiy and many a statesman out of his honesty - that will die. It was used as a weapon by bad men against good ones: their weapon will be broken."
"And what is the other kind - the action?"
"It;s a weapon on the other side. It leaps quicker than light from the highest place to the lowest to bring healing and joy, whatever the cost to itself. It changes darkness into light and evil into good. But it will not, at the cunning tears of Hell, impose on good the tyranny of evil. Every disease that submits to a cure shall be cured: but we will not cal blue yellow to please those who insist on still having jaundice, nor make a midden of the world's garden for the sake of someone who cannot abide the smell of roses."
Originally posted by passenger
I’m sorry but I don’t really see the significance of these photos (other than historical reference). If two millennia ago the place was a hellish garbage dump and Jesus used it as a visceral image for his teachings it probably had great impact. But today it looks different….how does this affect anything?
Hiroshima sixty years ago was “Hell-on-Earth”. Today – not such a bad place.
It seems to me that there still remains a lot of confusion about literal and metaphorical/allegorical statements in the Bible.
Originally posted by Bigwhammy
The major significance is that when Jesus taught and said Gehenna, other Jews, like the disciples, didn't think of it as a mythical place of eternal torture but a garbage dump. Big difference from what people today think when you say Hell. Garbage dumps aren't eternal and no one gets tortured there.
Perhaps they are discarded which fits the metaphor- maybe atheists get what they believe and cease to exist. But I do not believe God takes pleasure in or sponsors eternal torture nor do I believe the Bible teaches it.
[edit on 2/17/2008 by Bigwhammy]
The gift of eternal life is there, but their unbelief prevents them from accessing it.
Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Why would you have faith in eternal torment? seems kind of sick to me....
My question to you is, are you implying that Jesus will save you, whether you agree or not, what some people refer to as the Gospel of Inclusion or, Universalism? Everyone is saved, hence, everyone is a child of God?