F-22 production *could* start shutting down this year

www.aviationweek.com

Industry officials say that the first line shutdown activities for the F-22 will take place in October based on Lockheed Martin's multiyear contract with the U.S. Air Force; $4.1 billion for the program is included in the Pentagon's FY '09 request. The last of the stealthy twin-engine fighters would come off the line in the fourth quarter of 2011.

Well they`ve built nearly all that`s been ordered - and , without anymore orders - well thats it , the production line closes down.


damn.

[edit on 13/2/08 by Harlequin]

This could make the F-22 more likely to sell to foreign countries. Doing so will keep the F-22 production going so that if further orders are placed there won't be any spool-up time, will decrease production costs for that possible later order, and also make money by selling those aircraft. I would not, however, be surprised if the US administration made LockMart put in some stealthed bugs in the system in case of the F-22's squaring off against American aircraft.

They are trying to push through at least 4-8 more airframes to deal with possible attrition and these are not in the budget but will keep the line open for a lil under a year more. The fact is though that with out a change in the numbers to be built or a opening up to foreign buyers it will close just like the C-17 line.

^^ actually its 4 more airframes comeing from the war budget - and thats an extra 2 months and thats it - which places the shut down starting in october (longest lead time part of the productine line_ but literally after the last airframe has finished contruction phase 1 - unless lockmart pay for the line to remain open (but dormant) themselves them its shut down and use the building for another project.


edit:

congress has very little time to actually order any more - and it would be an ironic situation where the replacement for the Eagle stops production before the F15

[edit on 13/2/08 by Harlequin]

personally i think that this sucks... their is no competition for the F-22 and won't be for some time, personally i think congress should stop worrying about their own little pet projects and put some of that money towards the F-22. if the generals say they need 300 then by god we should get them 300. its a funny thing that happens when we listen to generals (ie the troop surge in iraq) they usually know what theyre talking about so i believe we should fund the extra ones.

raptor1

there have been no confirmed aircraft designated for foreign purchase, correct?

I know the Isrealis, Aussies, and Japanese want them, but isn't it a given that none of them are actually gonna get any?

I'd be shocked if the current congress voted to increase the number of birds for the air force.

I wonder if any of the rumblings about a possible mid-range bomber variant of the Raptor, might make Lockheed-Martin try to keep the lines open....just in case.

This is interesting.

To replace fighters lost in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Department of Defense plans to acquire more F-22 Raptors, according to a letter written by Deputy of Defense Gordon England to Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Ga.).

While England consistently opposed to keep the F-22 production line open after 2011, when the planned 183 aircraft have been build, Congress and the Air Force have been pushing hard to keep it open. The Air Force believes it needs almost double the ammount of Raptors to maintain air superiority.

www.star-telegram.com...

Along with this.

Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England expects the F-35A Lightning II will replace F-15s grounded due to a structural defect, instead of the F-22 Raptor.

During a Senate Budget Committee hearing on the Pentagon's fiscal 2009 budget request, he stated: "I do not believe the F-22s will be replacements for the F-15".

Around 40% of the F-15 fleet is still grounded, after an older F-15C model crashed due to structural defects on Nov 2. It will require billion of dollars to fix them, so the USAF is expected to replace most grounded aircraft.

"So I would expect instead we would try to accelerate the Joint Strike Fighter, which is more the class of the F-15," England said. "So the Air Force would move into Joint Strike Fighter and not into the much more expensive F-22 airplane."

The US Air Force, however, wants more F-22s than the current budgeted 183 and several Senators also want more, to prevent closure of the production line by Lockheed Martin.
www.reuters.com...

reply to post by West Coast


Well that second article sounds extremely misinformed so I would put much faith in it.

reply to post by West Coast


bloody hell - they want to replace the air defence of CONUS which is a damn good air superiority fighter - with a bomb truck :O

The F-35 will be "better" in the A2A role than anything currently flying, aside the Raptor, that includes the F-15. Still, England is an idiot for considering and suggesting this, he should have left with Rumsfeld, I guess we should call him Mac the Knife Jr. Hopefully Congress listens to the Sec Def, USAF and POTUS and keeps the production line open to allow the next administration to choose whether or not to increase the F-22 buy. Lockheed and Boeing will probably keep the line open with internal funds for a few months to compensate for any stoppage of production.

Double Post.

[edit on 14-2-2008 by WestPoint23]

I know the Isrealis, Aussies, and Japanese want them, but isn't it a given that none of them are actually gonna get any?

Capt. Spanky there will, to be precise, no foreign sales only as long as Gordon England is still Deputy Sec of Defence. He has displayed an almost pathalogical hate for the F-22 since day one, as did his former boss Rumsfeld. If the smoking gun claim in Flight International this week is to be believed this is nothing more than a petty payback for being overlooked for an LM promotion years ago.Story here

....And if he actually said this.

"So I would expect instead we would try to accelerate the Joint Strike Fighter, which is more the class of the F-15," England said. "So the Air Force would move into Joint Strike Fighter and not into the much more expensive F-22 airplane."

... Then quite frankly he should be removed from his job for incompetence and not knowing his subject matter. A half educated chimp with a rudimentary understanding of combat aircraft knows that the F-35 will NEVER be in the same class as the F-15. THAT is precisely why the F-22 exists and was created in the first place! Then again some would argue he has been working for a chimp anyway. Maybe its a case of monkey see, monkey do?

Come to think of it, maybe incompetence is precisely why he was overlooked for that promotion all those years ago?

LEE.

or maybe the real reason is that they know the world is ending in 2012 and they want money for there own private bunkers to survive just that bit longer!

Originally posted by Pro-genetic
or maybe the real reason is that they know the world is ending in 2012 and they want money for there own private bunkers to survive just that bit longer!

Ok how does the world end according to you my pall?

it's not acording to me at all lad, check ATS for 2012 and see what comes up!could be any number of things!

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The F-35 will be "better" in the A2A role than anything currently flying, aside the Raptor, that includes the F-15. ......

This you said is too early. When someone predict that F136 will be over 45000lbs, I has said that wouldn't be late when it really get such great thrust.

reply to post by Harlequin

If your information to be true the Raptor will be the most ephemerally produced jetfighter for recent 30 year. What a poor Raptor, so pathetic!

I can't believe that production is coming to an end for those amazing planes. I guess, since the F-35 JSF in coming on-line, the powers that be are confidant that the U.S. will maintain air superiority for many years to come.
I can't see production going on for export sale. I doubt that the hotest fighter that we have (or at least the one's that we know about!) is going to be sold to our allies. The technology is just to valuable.

Feb 18, 7:48 PM EST

Aging Air Force wants big bucks fix
By RICHARD LARDNER
Associated Press Writer
Each F-22 Raptor costs about $160 million. The Air Force says it needs 381 of the radar-evading planes and is fighting to keep the production line from being shut down too soon.
"We have never rolled off of the requirement to field 381 F-22s," Selva said. "The real issue at play with the F-22 is when the line closes, it's closed. Restarting the line will be unreasonably expensive."
The price for a single F-35 Lightning is $77 million, and the Air Force wants close to 1,800 of these fighters. The F-35 won't be in use for several more years.

Was just scanning the local news and came across this. Thought that all of you would like to see the numbers. Hard to believe that these things cost as much as they do, huh?
Seeya!!

The real world cost of the F35 is more than the $77 million quoted - look for the F35 thread as not only AUS but many european countires are looking at `in the air` not `rolled from the factory` costs on over $100 million - and thats as of todays money not in 3 years time when deliveries start!

reply to post by Harlequin


Umm… If that's the case then that likely includes training, support, maintenance, weapons, spares, etc… How can that be considered part of the fly away cost unless you have an agenda against the F-35? It reminds me of the F-22 350 Million BS when people included R&D. I wonder what the "real world" cost of the Euro canards are, or the Flankers for that matter…

That's like saying, well your car costs 20 Grand, however when you factor in 20 years worth of gas, upkeep and luxury items it's more like 40.