Senate OKs immunity for telecoms

Senate OKs immunity for telecoms

rawstory.com

The Senate voted Tuesday to shield from lawsuits telecommunications companies that helped the government eavesdrop on their customers without court permission after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

After nearly two months of stops and starts, the Senate rejected by a vote of 31 to 67 an amendment that would have stripped a grant of retroactive immunity to the companies. President Bush has promised to veto any new surveillance bill that does not protect the companies that helped the government...

(visit the link for the full news article)

The House version still has to pass, and the two reconciled for a final bill passed to the President for signing.

I just don't understand how either of them can pass a bill like this. I mean hell, just pass a bill that anyone helping the government in any endeavor is immune from the law and lawsuits on privacy rights. This is just wrong.

We need citizen legislators. This has got to stop. They are shielding all their buddies from the law, so they can wiretap anyone, anytime. BS.

rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Is anyone really surprised by this?
It's the norm now for anyone doing the governments bidding to be immune from the laws that the rest of us have to abide by. This is just one more example of criminal activity and the administration saying they don't need to abide by the laws of the land.

In fact, isn't that called a dictatorship

What can anybody expect from a government that is no longer a citizen body but rather a corrupted corporation to cater to its own interest.

American is still sleeping while this bozos are taking over our nation.

The American people is the enemy of this type of government we have now.

The Senate has caved into another Bush veto threat, they should have made him use his veto threat on this one...

[edit on 12-2-2008 by realmatrix]

I think our democracy is over.

The dregs of what's left is just working its way through the system until the rest of it is gone, too.

reply to post by AWingAndASigh


Well they may hold the power for now, but remember that is the citizens the ones that allow this type of abuse to go on.

Why do you think the government wants to make so many laws in an effort to have control over the populations?

Because they are scare to death of the power of the masses, they can only control so much until the masses start screaming enough is enough.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by AWingAndASigh

 

Well they may hold the power for now, but remember that is the citizens the ones that allow this type of abuse to go on.

Hi marg,

You're absolutely right, imo. But we must reach critical mass first, and keep spreading the word. Until then, is there really any point in anyone freaking out and marching on Washington? Honestly, the only way I think it's going to happen is if elements in our own military see the light, have had enough, and bring to bear the power bestowed in them by the people and the constitution. Of course by then it may be too late.

Another great find true american-starred and flagged.

Another thing to pay attention to is the recent 'private' auctioning of airwaves by the fed. They are increasing their grip on all telecom systems. Complete and total control of the communication systems is on the way, with the ability to do whatever they want uncontested.

Thanks man.

Well, let's hope the House's bill at least bridles it down a bit. But really, I don't have much hope. It's clear there are no more parties anymore. I'll bet you that good ole Ron Paul votes no, though. He's one of the very few we can count on up there.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by Purduegrad05]

[edit on 12-2-2008 by Purduegrad05]

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Great post again TrueAmerican!!

I'll bet Ron Paul votes against it as well.

Of course, I am not surprised by this at all. The soulless and heartless people that call themselves "the people's elected officials" have catered to the Bush/Cheney cabal again. It would be prudent to think that nothing is off the table at this point!! What's next, our gun rights? I say good luck with that one, but I'm sure they'll try. But then again, there isn't much point in worrying about it since nothing will solve this nonsense except a REVOLUTION!! I understand those who might disagree with that last statement....but ask yourselves, HONESTLY, what good have recent PEACEFUL demonstrations done???! I'm not saying, let's go to D.C., guns ablazing right now, but what other recourse do we have? Let's hope it stops somewhere...soon...


Purduegrad05

Originally posted by Purduegrad05
...But then again, there isn't much point in worrying about it since nothing will solve this nonsense except a REVOLUTION!!

Thanks.

As to your comment above, please note that Ron Paul's revolution is one of peaceful change. While a violent revolution may seem appealing to the frustrated, it will surely tear this country apart, for years and years to come. The deaths and destruction will be catastrophic. You want your kids growing up in the middle of that?

With that being said, one does need to look at what our forefathers went through. They had kids too. Some things are bigger than kids. And most of the fathers are no doubt turning over in their graves. We have let them down. We have let those that died for that constitution down. And it started in 1913 with the hijacking of this country's monetary system being unconstitutionally put in the hands of the Fed. That one act right there was really the largest crime ever committed against the American people, when you consider the implications that one act has spawned.

If Thomas Jefferson was alive right now and you were to ask him to grant immunity to private companies, or any part of the government, from the law for ANYTHING, do you think he would agree? No chance in hell.

If you were to ask him if it was ok that private contractors could be hired to fight wars completely out of reach of the law, and with total impunity, do you think he'd agree to that either?

...what good have recent PEACEFUL demonstrations done???! I'm not saying, let's go to D.C., guns ablazing right now, but what other recourse do we have?

Demonstrations and alternative media raise public awareness. When it reaches critical mass, the squeaking wheel will be so loud, someone's going to have to get some lube. Let's just hope it's not for a machine gun.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by TrueAmerican]

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Thanks.
As to your comment above, please note that Ron Paul's revolution is one of peaceful change. While a violent revolution may seem appealing to the frustrated, it will surely tear this country apart, for years and years to come. The deaths and destruction will be catastrophic. You want your kids growing up in the middle of that?

You are quite right and I did vote for Ron Paul in my states primary, a very good feeling indeed. Please understand that I DO NOT find violent revolution at all appealing, quite the contrary. "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." -Isaac Asimov. I want kids one of these days but to have them grow up in a country where THEY, the American citizen, is somehow the criminal that should be watched at all times, is not what I had in mind. I didn't pledge allegiance to the Fascist States of Amerika when I was in grade school and I know none of us did, just seems like it's turning into that.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
With that being said, one does need to look at what our forefathers went through. They had kids too. Some things are bigger than kids. And most of the fathers are no doubt turning over in their graves. We have let them down. We have let those that died for that constitution down. And it started in 1913 with the hijacking of this country's monetary system being unconstitutionally put in the hands of the Fed. That one act right there was really the largest crime ever committed against the American people, when you consider the implications that one act has spawned.

Agreed! The Federal Reserve Act destroyed this country, taking away the REAL wealth of the people themselves. Since they and the rest of our corrupt gov't will keep doing as they please, what can we do to stop them??

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Demonstrations and alternative media raise public awareness. When it reaches critical mass, the squeaking wheel will be so loud, someone's going to have to get some lube. Let's just hope it's not for a machine gun.

I agree it does raise public awareness....I have even convinced some friends to vote for Ron Paul and showed them DVD's, etc. But there are those that will never believe the REAL truth and since convincing them is out of the question, what do we do??

Purduegrad05

Good post True American !!!
starred and flagged

while you always bring up some controversial topics
this one I'm in total agreement with.

I think our president and all in congress who side and
vote with this some beach should be marched out
to the white house lawn and shot for treason.
There is no excuse for this behavior.

I think some folks are right
the only hope America has is a coo from our own Military.
They have an obligation and swore an oath to defend her
from domestic enemies as well. Well the domestic enemy is
in the white house right now.

reply to post by SimonSays


Thanks.

Normally, you'd think a military coup is something only other countries go through. But in America? The idea is so inconceivable that mainstream people not exposed to the kind of information discussed on sites like this one, would call anyone discussing such total lunatics. You can't just go from uninformed to backing such a radical idea overnight.

It's going take education, spreading the truth, and extreme patience on behalf of the informed. It takes exposure to a whole bunch of information before one arrives at the edge of the sword. And even then, the use of the sword would be premature- until all of our pens are seized, that is.

The Senate Oks telecom immunity is another infraction against the principles of "no one is above the law." Their biggest mistake is trying usurp the pen.

Update- more here:

rawstory.com...

There seemed some hope for blocking immunity in the House, as its Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, who has seen secret White House justifications for its warrantless wiretapping, said the documents do not support giving immunity to the telecommunications companies.

"Indeed, review and consideration of the documents and briefings provided so far leads me to conclude that there is no basis for the broad telecommunications company amnesty provisions advocated by the Administration and contained in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) bill being considered today in the Senate," Conyers wrote in a letter to White House counsel Fred Fielding and that these materials raise more questions than they answer on the issue of amnesty for telecommunications providers."

Indeed they do, and it's the same questions many of us are wondering. How can a free people accept policy that let's the privileged few monitor them with not only laws that usurp the constitution, but with impunity!

Same with the Blackwater issue. Immunity is not acceptable.

Simply put -- it's disgusting! Absolutely disgusting!!!

Here are two more links covering the story.

White House Admits that Defendants in Telecom Cases Assisted in Wiretapping Program

Telecom Immunity Passes in Senate; Battle Lines Drawn for Conference Showdown

This about sums it up thoroughly.

What was the outcome of all of that sturm und drang? What were the consequences for the President for having broken the law so deliberately and transparently? Absolutely nothing. To the contrary, the Senate is about to enact a bill which has two simple purposes: (1) to render retroactively legal the President's illegal spying program by legalizing its crux: warrantless eavesdropping on Americans, and (2) to stifle forever the sole remaining avenue for finding out what the Government did and obtaining a judicial ruling as to its legality: namely, the lawsuits brought against the co-conspiring telecoms. In other words, the only steps taken by our political class upon exposure by the NYT of this profound lawbreaking is to endorse it all and then suppress any and all efforts to investigate it and subject it to the rule of law.

To be sure, achieving this took some time. When Bill Frist was running the Senate and Pat Roberts was in charge of the Intelligence Committee, Bush and Cheney couldn't get this done (the same FISA and amnesty bill that the Senate will pass today stalled in the 2006 Senate). They had to wait until the Senate belonged (nominally) to Harry Reid and, more importantly, Jay Rockefeller was installed as Committee Chairman, and then -- and only then -- were they able to push the Senate to bequeath to them and their lawbreaking allies full-scale protection from investigation and immunity from the consequences of their lawbreaking.

That's really the most extraordinary aspect of all of this, if one really thinks about it -- it isn't merely that the Democratic Senate failed to investigate or bring about accountability for the clearest and more brazen acts of lawbreaking in the Bush administration, although that is true. Far beyond that, once in power, they are eagerly and aggressively taking affirmative steps -- extraordinary steps -- to protect Bush officials. While still knowing virtually nothing about what they did, they are acting to legalize Bush's illegal spying programs and put an end to all pending investigations and efforts to uncover what happened.

How far we've come -- really: disgracefully tumbled -- from the days of the Church Committee, which aggressively uncovered surveillance abuses and then drafted legislation to outlaw them and prevent them from ever occurring again. It is, of course, precisely those post-Watergate laws which the Bush administration and their telecom conspirators purposely violated, and for which they are about to receive permanent, lawless protection.

www.salon.com...

I have to say that during my youth and young adulthood I never would have believed that something like this could happen. Right up to September 2001 I wouldn't have believed it any more than a storyline in a James Bond film. But, IT HAS HAPPENED!!!. I'm stunned and there are no words or smilies that can convey just what I mean when I say that.