Well part of the issue is that the non christian folk are becoming more of a presence as well as being more vocal and less afraid to speak up for fear of persecution or ridicule.

The other issue is that on a more personal issue for me, and I assume for many others is that while we may have our own deeply held and ethical compassionate and long sought after and meditated upon belief system, many who call themselves christian will automatically start spouting scripture, trying to "save our soul"

I have been told that I was a unfit mother, damned to eternal hell and an abomination....all because I choose to follow a path that includes the female as divine and focuses on an earth or nature based sense of sanctity and worship. OOh lets not forget that i am also a devil worshiper, a witch (although i have never once cast a spell) and possesed by a demon.

seriously and those things have all been said by otherwise normal seeming people who took no issue with me until they learned my spiritual leanings.

I have had the feeling more than once that many of these christian fundmentalist extremists would not think twice about erecting that pole and setting the fires ablaze once again.

reply to post by undo

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Well, as they say, "if it bleeds, it leads." News ALWAYS focuses on the negative.

The sad thing is, you seem to be assuming that everyone buys into that negative news except you. You do know that people are perfectly capable of having their own experiences and information without sucking at the teat of CNN, right?

reply to post by gluetrap

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Last time someone gave me all that, I signed them up to about thirty different religious newsletters - none of them Christian. It's simply amazing how much paper you can get out of the Hare Krishna just by asking.

Great thing about working at a place that gives credit - you have the mailing addresses of all the obnoxious people.

Well I certainly would not because I don't have that authority and no one on this planet does! (some think they do, unfortunately). Jesus said to go preach the good news, not tie people to stakes, shoot, multilate, nuke, poision, and submerge them till dead! Man, alot of us are gonna be in some hurtin' status on the other side!

I may not agree with you but by golly, I'm not going to try to hurt you because I disagree with you!

reply to post by undo

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Well, to be honest... I don't think anyone has called you a fundamentalist extremist, so... You don't really need to throw up the shields there.

Yeah. I had a world religions class. the teacher was a hindu. i loved studying the hindu religion. it's fascinating! but that teacher was absolutely rude to me, and refused to cover any of the abrahamic religions in his class. now i knew very little about islam at the time, and he wasn't about to let me know, either. it was good that he was hindu and teaching the subject because it gave it so much more umph, but it wasn't good that he was not willing to cover but a few excerpts on judaism. i was like... you know, i don't really know that much about the modern practice of judaism. i need to go out now, and learn it on my own because my world religions teacher doesn't like monotheism and feels its been covered enough that he shouldn't have to cover it. wrongo! had he and others like him not assumed all people know about the inner workings of islam, perhaps we wouldn't be having some of the problems we are seeing now.

even the most innocent of prejudices can cause more problems than they correct.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by undo]

reply to post by undo

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Had he given you even a brief and cursory approach to them, would you have felt so driven to go and learn more?

And maybe you should learn more about atheism, since I haven't yet seen a "my bad" from you for lumping them in with Nazis and claiming they all want to kill you.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

i don't lump atheists in with nazis. nopers. i said the mindset (if you don't hold this view this doesn't apply to your mindset) of those who think that christians and muslims should just kill each other off, is very broad, generalized, statement equivalent to "DIE!!!!"! why is it they can't see when a person or persons are right in front of them they don't do those things but YET they cling desperately to those examples that fit their prejudice? because it quantifies their belief that christians and islamics should just die. that's all i can think of, that and the fact i firmly believe this is a supernatural event.

the newsletters thing is a very good idea....I usually just stand there open mouthed and shocked, I got over being hurt or mad the first time, not it just shocks me with the depth of their rudeness and presumption.


here is what it boils down to in my opinion.
I do not pass judgement on a person for being a christian, I condemn much of the dogma and rhetoric and self righteousness that is too often indoctrinated by so called christians, especially their leadership. Not to mention the judgment passing and hypocrisy..Ted Haggard anyone!
ITs not until the brimstone and fire start spewing that i judge.

But tell many christians that you are pagan, or any other faith..hell some even say catholocism isnt christian...and automatically your are judged and condemned...that is where myself and many others find the problem.

reply to post by undo

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It seems more an expression of frustration. Imagine you're on a long car trip, sitting between two people who want to have a fistfight and won't listen to any logic otherwise.

That's kinda how the rest of us are with Christianity and Islam. I don't really want them to go off and die, but damn it, after so much BS, I wonder if I would be bothered if they did. Not my proudest train of thought, but really, there comes a time when you wonder exactly what it'll take to get some people to just shut up and live and let live already.



[edit on 13-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

Dude, the people in that war are from every nationality and religious background or non-religious background. The bulk may be christian or may just be people who baptized as christian at birth but that doesn't mean this is their war. Please quit repeating this. I have no clue why Bush is there. As I said before: The guy was only supposed to go get Osama and he didn't. Instead, once he got over there, he stayed. That's nobody's fault but whoever planned the thing.

reply to post by undo

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I think you're missing the point I'm making. I don't think that every Christian and every Muslim is looking for a fight with each other. However you'd have to be a real dim bulb to pretend there's no strife between the two groups, as groups.

It's not about Bush or Osama. They're just figureheads of larger movements and undercurrents

it's pope-anity, not christianity.
i'll explain:
pope replaced christ, as christ's mouthpiece on earth.
he made new laws. incorporated paganism into it to make it
easier for the pagans to cross over. that's all it amounts to.
it's still got the stories of christ but follows the edicts and so forth
of the many popes down thru history.

now compare the political policy of the holy roman empire
to the words of christ. what do you think? was it christianity or pope-anity? who's words were they following? christ's or the pope's? did jesus tell them to go out and crusade? of course not.

there's your answer. doesn't mean i want them to die, however! i may not agree with them but i don't have the right to burn them at the stake, drown them, nuke, poison or otherwise bring them harm.

I dunno. Sometimes it seems like it's not even in the hands of the people fighting it. Like it has a life of its own that is out of control.

reply to post by undo

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To quote another man I have respect for: WAR IS OVER (if you want it)

Not trying to be argumentative here, I enjoy your sensible posts and ability to carry on a sensible conversation about this

but catholicism was the only christianity until the reformation.
And last time I checked they believe in the apostolic creed... I believe that Jesus christ is the only begotten son...I cant remember the whole thing anymore.
Isnt the base definition of a christian believeing in Jesus as the son of god, the holy trinity and salvation through jesus.

And yes originally the pagan beliefs were assimilated, but converts bring their histories and pasts with them, so even if it might once have been a pagan holiday it is now something very different...believe me, my Ostara and your easter are two very different things.

yes, today, catholicism is alot closer to biblical teachings than it was at one time. i think for what, some 1000 years or so, (gads that's a long time), the common man didn't have access to a bible anyway, and even if they did, they couldn't read it (cause it was in latin or greek) ? many attended services given in latin and didn't understand a word of it. lol they'd just go, stand up, kneel, smell the incense, stand up, kneel, listen to the beautiful choir, enjoy the fine furnishings, stand up, kneel, attend to the latin mass and wonder just exactly what cool things it must be saying, stand up, kneel, stand up, put money in box, go home.

there was a war?
what war?

Only because the US still has a rule of law which is enforced and has been so for quite a while. Should the country degenerate and anarchy take over then I can assure you that the placard wavers will start hanging shooting and torturing.

If you don't believe me then read a history book!

Christian fanatics had their day a few hundred years ago. Today its the muslim fanatics who are having their day. A couple hundred years from now we'll probably have buddhist fanatics! (what an image that conjures up!).

well i for one, don't wave placards but if i did, i still wouldn't hang, shoot or torture you or agree with anyone doing that to you. i'm sure there are alot of people who agree with me. which means, in order for your vision of placard wavers to come to pass, the christians who would disagree with hurting you, would have to be removed first (not that we would erupt into violence, because that would be counterproductive to the belief of turning the other cheek).