Well part of the issue is that the non christian folk are becoming more of a presence as well as being more vocal and less afraid to speak up for fear of persecution or ridicule.

The other issue is that on a more personal issue for me, and I assume for many others is that while we may have our own deeply held and ethical compassionate and long sought after and meditated upon belief system, many who call themselves christian will automatically start spouting scripture, trying to "save our soul"

I have been told that I was a unfit mother, damned to eternal hell and an abomination....all because I choose to follow a path that includes the female as divine and focuses on an earth or nature based sense of sanctity and worship. OOh lets not forget that i am also a devil worshiper, a witch (although i have never once cast a spell) and possesed by a demon.

seriously and those things have all been said by otherwise normal seeming people who took no issue with me until they learned my spiritual leanings.

I have had the feeling more than once that many of these christian fundmentalist extremists would not think twice about erecting that pole and setting the fires ablaze once again.

Originally posted by gluetrap

I have had the feeling more than once that many of these christian fundmentalist extremists would not think twice about erecting that pole and setting the fires ablaze once again.

Well I certainly would not because I don't have that authority and no one on this planet does! (some think they do, unfortunately). Jesus said to go preach the good news, not tie people to stakes, shoot, multilate, nuke, poision, and submerge them till dead! Man, alot of us are gonna be in some hurtin' status on the other side!

I may not agree with you but by golly, I'm not going to try to hurt you because I disagree with you!

the newsletters thing is a very good idea....I usually just stand there open mouthed and shocked, I got over being hurt or mad the first time, not it just shocks me with the depth of their rudeness and presumption.


here is what it boils down to in my opinion.
I do not pass judgement on a person for being a christian, I condemn much of the dogma and rhetoric and self righteousness that is too often indoctrinated by so called christians, especially their leadership. Not to mention the judgment passing and hypocrisy..Ted Haggard anyone!
ITs not until the brimstone and fire start spewing that i judge.

But tell many christians that you are pagan, or any other faith..hell some even say catholocism isnt christian...and automatically your are judged and condemned...that is where myself and many others find the problem.

sitting between two people who want to have a fistfight

Dude, the people in that war are from every nationality and religious background or non-religious background. The bulk may be christian or may just be people who baptized as christian at birth but that doesn't mean this is their war. Please quit repeating this. I have no clue why Bush is there. As I said before: The guy was only supposed to go get Osama and he didn't. Instead, once he got over there, he stayed. That's nobody's fault but whoever planned the thing.

catholocism isnt christian

it's pope-anity, not christianity.
i'll explain:
pope replaced christ, as christ's mouthpiece on earth.
he made new laws. incorporated paganism into it to make it
easier for the pagans to cross over. that's all it amounts to.
it's still got the stories of christ but follows the edicts and so forth
of the many popes down thru history.

now compare the political policy of the holy roman empire
to the words of christ. what do you think? was it christianity or pope-anity? who's words were they following? christ's or the pope's? did jesus tell them to go out and crusade? of course not.

there's your answer. doesn't mean i want them to die, however! i may not agree with them but i don't have the right to burn them at the stake, drown them, nuke, poison or otherwise bring them harm.

Not trying to be argumentative here, I enjoy your sensible posts and ability to carry on a sensible conversation about this

but catholicism was the only christianity until the reformation.
And last time I checked they believe in the apostolic creed... I believe that Jesus christ is the only begotten son...I cant remember the whole thing anymore.
Isnt the base definition of a christian believeing in Jesus as the son of god, the holy trinity and salvation through jesus.

And yes originally the pagan beliefs were assimilated, but converts bring their histories and pasts with them, so even if it might once have been a pagan holiday it is now something very different...believe me, my Ostara and your easter are two very different things.

Originally posted by gluetrap
Not trying to be argumentative here, I enjoy your sensible posts and ability to carry on a sensible conversation about this

but catholicism was the only christianity until the reformation.
And last time I checked they believe in the apostolic creed... I believe that Jesus christ is the only begotten son...I cant remember the whole thing anymore.
Isnt the base definition of a christian believeing in Jesus as the son of god, the holy trinity and salvation through jesus.

And yes originally the pagan beliefs were assimilated, but converts bring their histories and pasts with them, so even if it might once have been a pagan holiday it is now something very different...believe me, my Ostara and your easter are two very different things.

yes, today, catholicism is alot closer to biblical teachings than it was at one time. i think for what, some 1000 years or so, (gads that's a long time), the common man didn't have access to a bible anyway, and even if they did, they couldn't read it (cause it was in latin or greek) ? many attended services given in latin and didn't understand a word of it. lol they'd just go, stand up, kneel, smell the incense, stand up, kneel, listen to the beautiful choir, enjoy the fine furnishings, stand up, kneel, attend to the latin mass and wonder just exactly what cool things it must be saying, stand up, kneel, stand up, put money in box, go home.

Originally posted by blueorder

I still cannot equate the kind of Christian "fanatacism" you see in the US with that of the islamists across the world (Sudan, Iraq, Egypt, Nigeria, Somalia etc etc)

For example, I read a book by a gay american dude recently (Name escapes me, will check at home) anyways, he used to view the world in a similar view, and left America to live in Europe to avoid "narrow minded" christians- he ended up living near a large Muslim area in Holland- this changed his worldview.

He said some of the views of the American christian fanatics were indeed repugnant to him, but he said at least they were just views and the worst they would do is placards about the damnation of the soul- at the hands of the muslims he would have to suffer potential attacks (as he frequently was) and even death

Only because the US still has a rule of law which is enforced and has been so for quite a while. Should the country degenerate and anarchy take over then I can assure you that the placard wavers will start hanging shooting and torturing.

If you don't believe me then read a history book!

Christian fanatics had their day a few hundred years ago. Today its the muslim fanatics who are having their day. A couple hundred years from now we'll probably have buddhist fanatics! (what an image that conjures up!).

I can assure you that the placard wavers will start hanging shooting and torturing.

well i for one, don't wave placards but if i did, i still wouldn't hang, shoot or torture you or agree with anyone doing that to you. i'm sure there are alot of people who agree with me. which means, in order for your vision of placard wavers to come to pass, the christians who would disagree with hurting you, would have to be removed first (not that we would erupt into violence, because that would be counterproductive to the belief of turning the other cheek).