Project,

It's too late for that. They are calling for our deaths now.
Seriously, I was a pretty level headed person most of my life.
I've been on both sides of the proverbial fence. I wasn't
born a christian. I became one, years later, of my own accord.
But before I did, a saw what it was like to live as an american
agnostic. It wasn't good, but the reason wasn't because I
was being attacked by christians, i can tell ya that.

Then, after I became a christian, I saw massive changes in people.
Irrational changes. Like one of my partying buddies and I were in a
fast food joint, talking about the latest events in our lives and when
I told her I was a christian, she refused to talk to me ever again (and I didn't even try to convert her. she just freaked right out). And that was just the beginning. It got worse from there. Oh did it ever.

People have become irrationally afraid of christianity because of the
constant barrage of anti-christian material. It's everwhere. You can't escape it.

If the religious would actually do as they preach and meet differences with understanding... then I wouldn't have these views. But I get crapped on for not believing almost on a daily basis without saying a thing to anyone.

Sir, have you noticed that you are only accounting for one side of the story? What if all I did was post thread after thread about how bad I felt atheism was? that'd be scary wouldn't it? And what if I posted them about particularly extreme examples of atheists? That wouldn't be fair would it? And what if I did this, not by myself, but with tons of other christians, all dedicated to this one goal? That wouldn't be cool would it? That'd be kinda narrow minded and well dangerous, wouldn't it? When you see christians doing that, what's your gut instinct? When you see atheists doing that, what's your gut instinct?

I believe I know your answer already because you've already said you wished we'd all just kill each other and get it over with.

Originally posted by biggie smalls



Nowhere did I mention a degree in theology,

Yes, I know I said it because YOU never did. That means I have a respect for educated theists. As I see you do not. I guess you like the answers from uneducated Theists because they are so much easier to confound.

and that wouldn't give me expertise anyway.

Of course not.

I do know what I'm talking about. I've had years of indoctrination that I've now broken.

The only thing you have told me is what it's like to be indoctrinated and in recovery. Glad to see you are "Broken" from it.

Paul healed no one. He was not a healer. Yeshua was a healer. Paul was a Roman and a "bad" one at that.

Really? Are you saying Paul never healed anyone from blindness?

Paul's message was not that of hope, peace, and love UNLIKE Yeshua. Yeshua was a great man, but a prophet (in my opinion, you are entitled to yours) NOT God.

Before I go on,, may I ask,, are you a Jehovah witness?

Hitler persecuted more than just Christians and Jews, but that is another story altogether...

I agree

The Christian "Right" is a large force in this country, as we have seen with the 2000 and 2004 election with the evangelical vote.

Somehow a war mongering idiot won the Presidential election twice in a row.

Again,, I agree

I have a question for those who voted for this mad man and call themselves Christians.

I voted for him I am sorry to say,,

In all honesty, what the hell is wrong with your moral compass?

Umm? excuse me? My moral compass? I think I heard that term watchinig a show on PBS called taxi to darkness.

How can a 'religion of peace' be misconstrued so badly and be used in a context for war?

Again,, are you a JW?

Yeshua's message has fallen on deaf ears I see.

His truth speaks across the generations, yet no book can hold it.

His message is within your heart. You do not need a church or pieces of paper to tell you that.

To much extent, I agree

Open your heart and you are already in the "Kingdom of God

Amen Brother'

- Con

[edit on 12-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

Project,

No, not muslims, John Sky did, personally.
others on ATS have expressed an interest in the death
of christians everywhere. One actually said it was good
that christians in china were being killed and imprisoned
since they didn't have any right to distribute christian material
in a chinese country (one of these christians was a chinese lady, actually many are chinese). Some of these folks don't even distribute materials, they just try to read an unedited bible (the state version has verses removed that the gov deems threatening of their form of government). they try to have a church service in their own homes with other believers - all against the law. if they get caught, it's off to prison and/or death/abuse, that kinda thing.
some people here, in the USA and even on ATS, think it's good that this is happening because christians shouldn't be trying to be christians in a communist country. it's impossible to rise above the many arguments put forth to attack christianity.

i'm always surprised that the first thing outta some people's mouths is that we somehow brought this on ourselves. i certainly did not. i wasn't even there. i didn't do it and you can't say i did, cause i didn't. i didn't vote in bush. i didn't vote for the war in iraq. NO ONE DID. the guy got over there to get osama and stayed!

Originally posted by johnsky
Then you see another group, lets say they believe in Santa Claus. They also attack you for not believing as equally as the tooth fairy believers do. Eventually the only peace you get is when they go at each others throats.

You know that is about the biggest excuses I seem to continually hear as to why atheists are so sensitive. They want to paint this picture of never ending harassment from religious groups, and that is something I have never seen in my life. I think the Mormons have knocked on my door maybe three times in my life and I tell them no thinks and they give me some pamphlets and that is it. On ATS when I read any post that I view as so far out there to actually comment on I just pass on by and not waste my time with them. I think it is something that is on a deeper level than this.

If the religious would actually do as they preach and meet differences with understanding... then I wouldn't have these views. But I get crapped on for not believing almost on a daily basis without saying a thing to anyone.

How do people know you are an atheist? As a Christian I view all non-Christians the same. For me to argue with you would be the same as arguing with a Muslim about them not believing in Jesus, and that would be just stupid.

Me, I bite my tongue in public. On the internet, not so much. But I can say this, I have never met a religious person in the real world who will simply let the subject drop....
at first they try to convert you... if you show signs that wont work, they then turn to calling you names, like sinner... they typically proceed to tell you repeatedly that you are going to hell. They don't do it in a demeaning tone, instead they talk to you as if you are a child.

Who actually does this? Also why would you be a sinner...hehe it just doesn't make sense to me sorry. Hell my wife is Catholic and I'm not, and she has never tried to make me one.

I feel sorry for your friends son for having to deal with the oppressive religious for so long that he can't retain his anger any longer.

Well his family is not religious and one time I asked him about his anger and he told me that at school the "god squad" tried to give him some pamphlets and it pissed him off.

I think tolerance can work both ways don't you?

If real, true, christianity was in control in the USA, things would be entirely different than they are. Firstly, abortions would be outlawed. Stem cell research would be outlawed. War would be outlawed. And then the entire welfare system would be reworked so that it actually benefited people. We would stop trying to police the world. We'd get on alternative fuel sources. We'd find ways to make the place healthy for everyone. We'd stop forcing our farmers off their lands via taxing the freak out of them and heaping them with so many policies that they could never survive it and the bank gets their farm that's been in their family for generations. The big corps would behave themselves or else! lol We'd stop trying sending our industry to china. We'd rebuild our infrastructure. And on and on and on. Yeah, some things would not look AMERICAN as we know it, at all, but some would drastically improve. And yeah, some people would definitely feel slighted! This is why most "religious" presidents aren't really practicing christianity when they get in there. cause 1) they are not allowed to and if they did, they'd be assassinated 2 seconds later! and 2) it isn't where the guys at the tippy top want to take this nation. .. They wanna rule the world and blame the christians for any mistakes they make along the way

Originally posted by projectvxn
Christians in political power here ARE a problem because they try to make morality a legislative issue. Which is where they fail time and time again. You can't legislate morality, which is what the Chinese are trying to do by cracking down on Christians, and it is what Christians are doing when they ban something that could be beneficial to the whole of mankind, and most Americans want it any way, and that is stem cell research. Who are we to tell the rest of America, who overwhelmingly voiced their opinion in favor of it, no flat out? As Americans we value democracy, unless we're trying to push an agenda. Religion when allowed state power becomes evil and faithless, as you can see by the theocracies in the middle east. We can't allow the same of Christianity here in the USA or anywhere else on Earth. And that comes from a true believer.

When has religion not been in America. Who was the last president that wasn't religious? Our forfathers were extremely religious.

The thing with stem cells is maybe we are just rushing it. Technology will solve this issue, but what we don't need is a case where women get pregnant to just sell off the fetus. I can easily see moral issues with this.

Originally posted by undo
Well do you think christians are a threat to your livelihood? I mean, reasonable christians! There's unreasonable people everywhere.

Nope. I don't. I believe they have too much say over American society - a nation of many faiths cannot reasonably be governed on the basis of only one, after all. I figure this is best fixed by voring for politicians who understand that.

Do reasonable christians cramp your style? What is it about christianity that just frosts your petunias

The fact that your religion revolves around the concept that you are weak, helpless creatures who are addled with sin like a French sailor is with gonorrhea, and who are utterly incapable of fixing this problem on your own. I find it pathetic, and am baffled as to why anyone would seek to convince themselves of this.

to the point you don't mind dragging out infamous people like Hitler to attach to the already sky high heap of derogatory comments regarding christianity?

Ahem? This is you posting about atheists back on page 9:

originally posted by undo
then showing up on the news and villifying christians who supposedly voted for a guy who supposedly got in by computer fraud anyway. then calling us a bunch of idiots and saying the world would be better without us and no one seems to think that sounds even remotely hitlerian. it's an atrocity waiting to happen, on a huge scale.

This is Conspiriology, also talking about atheists, on page 11:

Originally posted by Conspiriology
The fact is this is nothing but more of the same Atheist agenda that I see being made by ATHEIST in an attempt to alarm and mislead people about the Christian Religion. If anyone needs to be looked at with any real scrutiny,, take a good look at some of the plans Neo Atheists have for the world. Then see who it was that used natural selection to bring about the Aryan race.

And just to clarify doubts about his statement, here you two are again, on page 12:

undo[
I do believe he meant
Hitler's Aryan Race theology

Conspiriology
Very perceptive of you Undo,, that is exactly what I meant.

Lying isn't a very Christian thing to do, is it? And didn't Jesus preach against hypocrisy? You, madam, were the one who brought the Nazis into this, comparing atheist dislike for Christians to Hitler's rhetoric and making the claim that atheists want to perform a christian holocaust. Then comes Con, with the historically bupkis meme that the Nazis were atheists, which I dutifully corrected, with repeated statemens that I in no way consider the Third Reich as a standard to judge any Christian by.

I suppose I'm persecuting you here by pointing out that you're absolutely, perfectly incorrect on your statement that not only did I bring up the Nazis first, but that I equated them to Christianity, when in fact it was the two of you who brought 'em up and equated them directly and unapologetically to atheists?

It seems anybody can claim a thing but to actually be that thing, don't their actions like kinda have to match that thing? It seems to me that most infamous and deadly leaders in history have claimed christianity, making it seem like a big stinkin' pile of refuse. But when you read the words of Christ, he's like, be kind, love those who hate you, turn the other cheek, give to the needy, if someone asks for help, help them, and so on.

And then you look at Protestant theology which teaches that it's not what you do, it's what you believe. Or Catholic Theology which teaches that doing good deeds is good, but bad deeds can be cured by strenuous prayer.

Anyone who says they are a Christian is one, in my book. Why? Well, because the definition of a Christian is someone who accepts Jesus as the son of god and the messiah and savior. Every other bit of dogma is just gravy. Since we lack a faithometer device, we're stuck with taking people at their word and letting their god sort it out when they kick the bucket.

Which, in case you needed reminding, is your god's place, not yours. He did not appoint you as the meter maid of Christianity, I'm sure.

Jesus was not even remotely scary. He didn't advocate anyone's death. He didn't even advocate returning a punch or a slap or an angry word. Doesn't it strike you as odd that the worst LEADERS in history have all claimed to follow his teachings? Don't you smell a rat? (and don't tell me it's Jesus)

I won't. As a man I'm a large fan of famously quipped, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." If you're unfamiliar, that's Mohandas Gandhi, who would probably be the last man on earth to advocate harming Christians. Like him, I like Jesus, as a teacher, even if I don't regard him as a divine being.

The problem is, Christians are notoriously bad at being the least bit christlike.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

I greatly admire tibetan buddhists, Ghandi, his wife, and I have no clue why they don't like me or didn't like me. And no idea why you don't like me. Or John Sky, or anybody on this forum for that matter, doesn't like me to the extent that my death would be preferable to my life. I don't wish anyone harm here! I didn't do anyone harm here! You act as if the news is filled with reports about how dangerous atheists are! Like its in the movies and songs and books and even the schoolbooks?!
Can you not see it? It's everywhere. It's dripping off the ceilings like freakin' ectoplasm. Don't you find THAT hitlerian? I do! The concept is the same. Like someone else said: You have to first dehumanize the people you are after, so you can successfully convince people they need to die!

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by projectvxn
Christians in political power here ARE a problem because they try to make morality a legislative issue. Which is where they fail time and time again. You can't legislate morality, which is what the Chinese are trying to do by cracking down on Christians, and it is what Christians are doing when they ban something that could be beneficial to the whole of mankind, and most Americans want it any way, and that is stem cell research. Who are we to tell the rest of America, who overwhelmingly voiced their opinion in favor of it, no flat out? As Americans we value democracy, unless we're trying to push an agenda. Religion when allowed state power becomes evil and faithless, as you can see by the theocracies in the middle east. We can't allow the same of Christianity here in the USA or anywhere else on Earth. And that comes from a true believer.

When has religion not been in America. Who was the last president that wasn't religious? Our forfathers were extremely religious.

The thing with stem cells is maybe we are just rushing it. Technology will solve this issue, but what we don't need is a case where women get pregnant to just sell off the fetus. I can easily see moral issues with this.

Again Extro,, you have an un-canny ability to break it down in such a provocative dissection forcing self examination to answer your post is to risk further embarrasement lol.

The part of his response where it says we can't legislate Morality is one of the most glaring indications as to that posters ignorance. The fact is WE HAVE LEGISLATED MORALITY AND EVEN MADE IMMORAL ACTS ILLEGAL. Does he not get that?

- Con

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by projectvxn
Christians in political power here ARE a problem because they try to make morality a legislative issue. Which is where they fail time and time again. You can't legislate morality, which is what the Chinese are trying to do by cracking down on Christians, and it is what Christians are doing when they ban something that could be beneficial to the whole of mankind, and most Americans want it any way, and that is stem cell research. Who are we to tell the rest of America, who overwhelmingly voiced their opinion in favor of it, no flat out? As Americans we value democracy, unless we're trying to push an agenda. Religion when allowed state power becomes evil and faithless, as you can see by the theocracies in the middle east. We can't allow the same of Christianity here in the USA or anywhere else on Earth. And that comes from a true believer.

When has religion not been in America. Who was the last president that wasn't religious? Our forfathers were extremely religious.

The thing with stem cells is maybe we are just rushing it. Technology will solve this issue, but what we don't need is a case where women get pregnant to just sell off the fetus. I can easily see moral issues with this.

Again Extro,, you have an un-canny ability to break it down in such a provocative dissection forcing self examination to answer your post is to risk further embarrasement lol.


The part of his response where it says we can't legislate Morality is one of the most glaring indications as to that posters ignorance. The fact is WE HAVE LEGISLATED MORALITY AND EVEN MADE IMMORAL ACTS ILLEGAL. Does he not get that?

- Con

In my opinion the largest genocide to take place happened right here in america, and was committed under the guise of taming the savage heathen beast, it went on for hundreds of years and is too often overlooked. Good christian missionaries ripped families and tribes apart, the government killed and imprisoned thousands of innocent people onto worthless parcels of land acted with force to strike down any sort of resistance to this treatment.

And if you want to learn more about fundamental Christian extremists watch the documentary Jesus camp, there is no doubt they are indoctrinating those children into a warrior against the evil masses mindset.

Maybe anyone that advocates the death of anyone else for a belief system in conflict with their own should be shunned. Maybe the death of any man over a belief represents a loss for all people.