Christian Right's Emerging Deadly Worldview: Kill Muslims to Purify the Earth

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by undo

 

And again, instead of addressing what I posted, you imply that only you have an inkling of what's going on and AGAIN imply that people who don't hold to your view are prejudiced.

Everytime you ask me a question and I answer it, you accuse me of not answering the questions elsewhere. You're really hard to talk to.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by undo]

I have watched a few videos on these guys. I have yet to hear any of them say that Muslims must convert or be killed. Doesn't mean that they did not say that but so far I have not seen anything that would even lead me to believe they would say it.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

There are many videos on them on YouTube. Just search for them using their own names.

reply to post by undo

Perhaps this is because you never address the issue - you use all the tired old tactics of cherrypicking, avoidance, lies and misinformation.

And you haven't talked to me, only AT me.

When you have the courtesy to address my questions in an open and direct manner, I will respond in kind.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by undo

 

Perhaps this is because you never address the issue - you use all the tired old tactics of cherrypicking, avoidance, lies and misinformation.

And you haven't talked to me, only AT me.

When you have the courtesy to address my questions in an open and direct manner, I will respond in kind.

O I have addressed the issue everyway till sunday. Every possible side. The implications. Possible future impacts. You just aren't thinking passed how you feel about christians and christian extremists in particular.

When I counter offer a reason that I feel is why this isn't just a black and white issue, you return to the idea that I am trying to say there are no extremists, which I'm not saying at all. Of course there are. When I tell you why I feel it's bad to bring this stuff up, you claim it's because we need to know it, this is ATS afterall, but the need to know is never tempered by separating the extremist from just your everyday christian - primarily because once the word christian is on the table, it's free game and the two concepts are no longer separated in the minds of those who think christians suck. Same thing happened to muslims and jews and so forth. How do you think the historical incidences of wars between ideologies, start?

Of course, you want to pretend I'm not making sense because I am making sense and there's no simple solution - et.al, we need to know what's going on, so what else is there to do but report what's going on.

I hate Catch 22's.

Oh please. As with EVERY group, you will have nutjobs bent on some kind of genocidal mission. However, comparing Christian radicals to Muslim radicals is like comparing a mugger to a serial killer.
There ARE crazed people claiming to be christian out there, and they DO have bizarre views, but those views are NOT the views of the rest of the church. On the other hand, the Qu'ran DEMANDS that any non-believers must be killed if they will not convert. The basis of muslim outreach is "Convert or Die!"

You cannot compare a lunatic's ravings to another religion's canon.

If you want to know about Muslims, as a Muslim. Dont goto the Media and look at what Murders who just HAPPEN to be muslim are doing.

Nowhere in Islam does it say you can or must force someone to become Muslim, so if you see some fanatics trying to implement that, they are going AGAINST the techings of the Quraan.

Nowhere in Islam does it say you can kill anyone, unless they are trying to kill you (as I have said so many times before, but ppl keep ignoring it).

I think if you take the number of murders alone in the US, over the past 10 years, it is NOWHERE as little as in the Muslim countries... problem is in Iraq and a few other places, a single murder kills scores of humans, whereas in the US, its limited, most of the time. But no one says these are Jewish or Christian Murders.... yet if it happens in the Eastern World, it gets Labled as Islamic (which is Blasphemous by the way to even state that!).

And who is promoting all the Hate? The media.... this is what they want you to believe so that you can hate a group of people, (the same group of people MOST MUSLIMS dislike), yet you would label them as Muslims, and We Muslims would label them as murders. Thats the difference. And we are right because we know its not Islam that allows for ANYTHING they are claiming.

Somehow i feel like no one cares for the truth... it seems that its alot more fun to believe all the lies out there about Islam... and maybe alot easier to just go along with the Media, rather than to actually pick up and read the Quraan and see how the Media is distorting the facts..... as everyone (some/most/I dunno) seems to believe them.

reply to post by Xtrozero


I think that "guages" may be too loose a word, perhaps programmed perceptions would be a better description in some instances, when not talking about quantifiable issues.

My own experience leads me to believe that "moderates" treat extremist views with the contempt they think they deserve and choose not to dignify them by simply ignoring them - rightly or wrongly.
My view is that these issues should be brought out into the open in order for others to (perhaps) gain greater understanding.

There are also cultural perceptions at work here.
We in the west like to think of ourselves as superior because of our higher level of technology.
We conveniently forget that we also have higher levels of crime.

I think that the west is ever eager to take the moral high ground, a kind of moral superiority if you will - and I'm pretty sure this is not a good trait.
Yet we see it as well in the muslim view

Overall, I would say that a persons perception is their reality - but I'd also take into account the old saying:
"before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes"

But please remember, I say this with regard to non-extremism.

undo

ONCE AGAIN
I am not anti christian, have never expressed myself as such and hold no truck with prejudice of any nature.

I think I can see your true colours showing.

Please stop accusing me of things that aren't true.
First you accuse me of editting the headline and now accuse me of prejudice.

it's against the t&c and I can't be bothered with it.
Thanks

[edit on 12/2/2008 by budski]

[edit on 12/2/2008 by budski]

Originally posted by undo
I don't think it's "tough", I think it's going to get "tough." The first sign was the concept of dividing people along political/religious lines. Deliberately making it seem as those only christians voted for bush, and that all christians are republicans. and then making the entire republican party seem like a huge pile of nazis war machine freaks, thereby associating christians in general with bush and his actions.

Except it was the Evangelical Christians who took credit for this "win" and who for two years after his re-election wailed and gnashed their teeth because he didn't kowtow to all of their desires, with the claim of "we elected you, you must do as we say." Look, if you don't want to be associated with these guys, that's fine, but you're just making crap up. The news networks have been very good in talking about the "evangelical vote" rather than the "Christian" vote. Funny how Christians get the "Evangelical vote," the "Catholic vote," the "protestant vote" but there's only one sort of "Jewish vote" according to these same news sources.

Maybe you don't pay as much attention to the situation as I do, which is fine - if more people paid as much attention to politics and the sideshows of that arena, we'd all be nuts.

As for the Republicans being a Nazi war machine... Nah. The Nazis were effective. The Republicans are just wannabes. But that's a topic for another thread, and I DO realize not all Republican voters for the mold. Just the ones who go out and vote for the politicians that do...

then showing up on the news and villifying christians who supposedly voted for a guy who supposedly got in by computer fraud anyway. then calling us a bunch of idiots and saying the world would be better without us and no one seems to think that sounds even remotely hitlerian. it's an atrocity waiting to happen, on a huge scale.

Are you freaking kidding me? Firstly, anyone who voted for Bush should be vilified and called stupid, because the point of voting is to bring someone into office who is representative of yourself, and there's no question that Bush deserves all the flaming sacks of poo he gets. As I covered a moment ago, it was Christians - one branch in particular, as noted by the people you're taking such offense at - who took credit and expected a purely biblical 4 year term out of the man.

Second... How familiar are you with Hitler? here's a copy of one of his earlier bits of writing. Here's his speech to the Reichstag in January 1939. A collection of Hitler's quotes. You think that making fun of your religion makes a person comparable to this guy? Do you? Do you #ing really believe that American Christians are looking down the barrel of a new Holocaust?

There ARE crazed people claiming to be christian out there, and they DO have bizarre views, but those views are NOT the views of the rest of the church. On the other hand, the Qu'ran DEMANDS that any non-believers must be killed if they will not convert. The basis of muslim outreach is "Convert or Die!"

Another example of outright ignorance. NoWhere does it SAY in the Quraan that non-believes must be killed if they dont convert! Please show me and cite your references if you are telling the truth. You will NOT find that anywhere because its absolutely UNTRUE!.

Even in Islamic Wars, the Muslim Governments, when they took over, told the people of the land they have 3 choices, they can either convert to Islam, they can remain whichever religion (but have to pay a tax -the SAME tax Muslims Pay) or if they refuse they can either leave the land, or be killed if they resisted and fought back.

These were the rules, so I dont know where you get your lies from.

There ARE crazed people claiming to be christian out there, and they DO have bizarre views, but those views are NOT the views of the rest of the church. On the other hand, the Qu'ran DEMANDS that any non-believers must be killed if they will not convert. The basis of muslim outreach is "Convert or Die!"

Another example of outright ignorance. NoWhere does it SAY in the Quraan that non-believes must be killed if they dont convert! Please show me and cite your references if you are telling the truth. You will NOT find that anywhere because its absolutely UNTRUE!.

Even in Islamic Wars, the Muslim Governments, when they took over, told the people of the land they have 3 choices, they can either convert to Islam, they can remain whichever religion (but have to pay a tax -the SAME tax Muslims Pay) or if they refuse they can either leave the land, or be killed if they resisted and fought back.

These were the rules, so I dont know where you get your lies from.

There's a huge group of muslims that are extremely moderate and liberal and peaceful in their thinking. I remember before the war stuff started, reading an article by a muslim who was really upset by the way islam was being presented to the world. He said that he belonged to a large group of muslims that were not wahabi, that were not al'qaeda, and so on (not extreme by any stretch of the word), and he was extremely unhappy with this because they were peaceful, law abiding, not interested in jihad or forced conversions or even shar'ia law for that matter. I felt bad for the guy. I know what he means. It's like some big unseen hand, just beyond our sight, is manipulating all of this to a final apocalypse and people are so bored, they are helping it along.

You cannot compare a lunatic's ravings to another religion's canon.

The only raving lunatic here is yourself.... you are spreading hate with lies. Please dont comment on my religion when you have no clue what you're talking about.

The Walking Fox,

Do you think the Evangelical christians all voted for Bush? If you do, you're a victim of the same problem I'm trying to point out.
It's all spin, friend. I'm not sure what it's gearing up for, but boy, it's not going to be pretty if it ever erupts.

reply to post by ZyonCryme


Zyon, not wanting to go off thread and start discussing the pro's and con's of Islam but, there are interpretations of The Koran that advocate the forcible conversion of Kaffirs or their death.

I know that the majority of Muslims do not believe this, but just as in Christianity, and all other major faiths, it depends on which interpretation you follow.

You think that making fun of your religion makes a person comparable to this guy? Do you?

No, not really. I would say it's more like the Roman Colliseum these days. Yeah, that's a pretty good analogy. One of the posters here, on another thread, said the christians in china deserved to be imprisoned and killed (of course, they wouldn't say the same for the buddhists or taoists that are being unfairly treated and murdered there, so one has to assume its because the concept of christians suffering appeals to that individual. you have to denigrate another human being a great deal to get another person to actual support and enjoy the idea of that individual dying and suffering).

Do you #ing really believe that American Christians are looking down the barrel of a new Holocaust?

Yep. I do. Without a doubt. When is the question and under what pretexts. I think it'll be a bit more insidious than what we currently think of as the Holocaust. Probably couched in something else, so you'll appear to be an extremist if you don't agree, and extremism by that point, will be so reviled, that they'll assume you deserve it just on that point alone (even if you aren't even remotely extreme).

reply to post by biggie smalls


Paul had nothing to do with the Gospel of Matthew...Got a link to support your thesis.

You are saying that Paul corrupted the Gospel of Matthew. We'll need a source so as not to declare BS on you.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
reply to post by Dark Skies

 

Matthew didn't write the book of Matthew either. It was a group of post-Yeshua death Way followers who wrote the books.

Paul just manipulated the original texts to suit his needs.

I am getting the feeling that you are a sympathetic sufferer of flappy gums syndrome.

Best of luck with that. It must be painful!

Question here...what is Paul's motive?

Originally posted by flice
reply to post by budski

 

Most certainly yes... it's not about what they want to do and how, but that they want to do it at all. In my view Christians of any sort are the most dangerous to humanity today.

OH PLEASE give me a break!

reply to post by Freeborn

It seems to be a different story across the pond and there seems to be a growing movement of Christian extremism in certain areas of the US.

Don't believe everything you hear, if there is I must have missed it.

Definition of the Average American Christian.

It's a social clup.

Lotta singing, dancing, and eating, pass the donation plate.

Go on Easter and Christmas, pass the donation plate.


[edit on 062929p://bTuesday2008 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Perhaps it may be better expressed as more reported instances of growing christian extremism in some press sectors.

IMO there has always been christian extremism - we just hear about it more these days, due to a variety of factors.

Mostly press with an agenda - same as they do with muslims.

I'm really curious as to how the hindhu's will be attacked when it's their turn.

Probably have a 60 year old chelsea clinton warning us of the dangers of pacifism (simplisitic I know - but it is a lighthearted comment, not intended to offend)