The government lied to us...and they should have

You got it, I worship authority.
I have a huge statue of the capitol building over my bed and another one at the doorway so I bow to it when I leave and come inside.
Like I said before, it is much easier for people to blame "them" or the "government" instead of looking at the truth.
"did you see that puff of smoke on the side of the building? Oh, i KNOW someone blew it up and those planes hitting it didn't do any harm at all"



Heaven forbid something terrible happens and we can't find a way to blame it on "Secret Government"---oooow---spookky.
It's much more fun to believe in conspiracies and some people mistake entertainment for reason

Just because you buy into or believe one conspiracy...i don't think that means you have to believe or give weight to all of them.
But I know, it's the "Rossie" thing to believe in the 9-11 plot right now.

Open your mind, and eventually your ASS will follow.

Shuh shawwww!!!!!

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
Just because you buy into or believe one conspiracy...i don't think that means you have to believe or give weight to all of them.
But I know, it's the "Rossie" thing to believe in the 9-11 plot right now.

Johnny, I see you are fairly new. This thread might be of interest to you, or maybe not.

I would be interested on your take on this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do you think we are so naive as not to understand your motives? And your school boy tactics?

[edit on 12-2-2008 by whaaa]

reply to post by indierockalien


If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

reply to post by indierockalien


-double post

[edit on 12-2-2008 by BlueRaja]

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
Now a conspiracy may and most often does involve a cover-up, but the reverse does not always have to apply.

Why not?

Definition of "conspiracy": an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.

I'd like to point out one of those words: treacherous

Definition of "treacherous": deceptive, untrustworthy, or unreliable.

Deceptive? Isn't the point of a cover up to keep the truth hidden, therefore, DECEIVING the public?

So yes, my friend, a cover up is a conspiracy. A conspiracy is anything evil, deceptive, secret, unauthorized, or unlawful by two or more people.

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
With that in mind, I am starting to lean towards the idea that a “cover-up” from the government is not an entirely evil or wrong thing.

Wrong again, my friend. They work for US!

What happens when you lie to your boss, deceive your boss, or do something illegal under your boss' nose? You get in trouble? You get fired? Something along those lines.

So why is it ok for them to lie to their boss? People don't seem to forget anything about the relation of conspiracy and cover up. What people DO seem to forget is that they work for us, and we need to hold them accountable.

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
When you look at it…what good does it do to anyone to know if an Arab terrorist group shot the plane down or if the Navy did?

It holds someone accountable. Once you start excusing this and that and allowing them to label it Top Secret for "national security reasons", you open up the flood gates for them to abuse your trust.

What national security implications would that have? Would China and Russia now know the highly classified secret that yes, indeed, commercial aircraft can be shot down AND blow up, all in a matter of seconds?

Yes. I can sure see how that would compromise our $600 billion military and 10,000 nuclear weapons.

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
there would be a panic.

Like there was on 9/11? They didn't mind allowing that to happen, now did they?

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
What if the leaders don’t know who did it?

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
Since it was a one time event, is it not better to have the country believe that the tragedy of Flight 800 was an accident even if it wasn’t?

No. We hire them to do our work for us, look out for OUR interests, and tell US the truth.

We don't hire them to look out for their interests, work for international bankers, and lie to us while murdering us

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
Why worry about something which we have no control over?

Good strategy. We have no control over Al Qaeda attacking us, so why worry? Lets have our civil liberties back now. Why worry? We don't need to get them taken away anymore to protect us, so why worry? Can we have them back now?

It seems you're drifting in to both sides of the argument now. I don't know if that's intentional or not.

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
As much as I hate to say it, I think they did the right thing on this one…maybe?

No

[edit on 2/12/08 by NovusOrdoMundi]

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
Just because you buy into or believe one conspiracy...i don't think that means you have to believe or give weight to all of them.
But I know, it's the "Rossie" thing to believe in the 9-11 plot right now.

Johnny, I see you are fairly new. This thread might be of interest to you, or maybe not.

I would be interested on your take on this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do you think we are so naive as not to understand your motives? And your school boy tactics?

[edit on 12-2-2008 by whaaa]

And what exactly are his motives? Are you saying he doesn't believe what he is saying, and is just spreading disinformation?

Yes, you are right. My "username" is new...

But you said something about my motives?
What are you talking about? What do you think my motives would be? You have me curious.
Isn't free thought a staple here? Since I don't agree...what? I am a fool? I am blind?
I hope this doesn't anger anyone, but I think that so many people here believe in the 9-11 fraud or conspiracy or whatever it is, they think it gives weight and strength to it.

How many people believe in something has no baring whatsoever on the truth of it.

Because many people agree with a certain line of thinking doesn't make it correct or more likely. I'm pretty sure at some point in time most everybody believed the world was flat or there were dragons that knights battled. Was it true? was believing you would fall off the face of the earth going to make it more probable that you would?
I think the same belief that I am some sort of drone who eats, sleeps, and lives as I am told to, can be applied to those who agree with things because more people say it.
So, again, what are my motives?

Originally posted by BlueRaja

And what exactly are his motives? Are you saying he doesn't believe what he is saying, and is just spreading disinformation?

Oh, I'm sure he believes the official story. And I personally think his motives are to try and stop people from asking questions by the use of intimidation and childish sarcasm. Just like Iv'e seen you do BlueRaja.

Myself and like many others on this site can't be intimidated and if you want sarcasm; there are masters of the genera here and the lame attempts by the believers of the official story are laughable.

Back on topic.....I don't pay taxes to buy lies

Well as you probably have surmised with your heightened sense of awareness, I'm not a subscriber to CT with regards to 9/11. I would never try to intimidate those that share different opinions. I believe people are entitled to their own opinions, even if they're incorrect.



..............................................................................
[edit: removed unnecessary quote of entire previous post]
Quoting - Please review this link

[edit on 12-2-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

reply to post by _Johnny_Utah_

When people fall in line behind conspiracy theories and blindly accept those...they are somehow enlighten...but if someone believes or mostly buys the official story...well they are fools. Do you see the contradiction?

Who is blindly accepting anything? I choose to investigate all aspects of the CT investigation of 9/11 to draw my own conclusions, because I will NOT blindly accept the version put out by a government that has been clandestinely subverted right under our noses. The CT investigation is the ONLY thorough and independent investigation into the matter. The "official version has been scientifically discredited, yet is still accepted by the MSM and the public in general. Why? Because they choose to "blindly accept" what they are told by a government that has lied time and time again.

My first line of thought was "I am leaning towards..." I did not say I had stepped through the doorway and into the line of thought.
Wasn't there a "maybe" thrown in?

Like everyone else, I wanted to see what others thought about it. I can understand both sides. And I hope you can too, because if you refuse to listen, it is no different than a child holding his hands to ears because he doesn't want to listen...I AM IN NO WAY SAYING YOU ARE LIKE THAT!!!
It's just an example.
Now if I have leaned or seemed to have leaned a little more to one side, it may be because of the 9-11 stuff tossed in here, which really is a totally seperate issue.
A cover-up does differ.
Sure, you can find ways to connect words and meanings just like you can play that Kevin Bacon game with Hollywood actors. You do it just right and you get lost on what the meaning of "is" is.

In the exact set of circumstances I am refering to, no, A conspiracy is not the same as a cover-up.
A cover-up, in the sense I am talking here, comes on the end of a problem. A conspiracy sets out to create or fuel the problem. In one, there is no intent when the event occurs...in the other, intent is the primary reason for the event. See, a HUGE distinction.

reply to post by _Johnny_Utah_

Which would be worse? Lying to the public or causing a national panic about something we can't control and didn't happen again?

Let's put it this way. Even if 9/11 was what the "official" version states, I think we should have been told that such a thing was possible. Instead, they chose not to, so they could deliberately manipulate a panicked population. The "national panic" gave our leaders a blank check to invade the Middle East, and to introduce the Patriot Act which spells out the death of checks-and-balances. Yes, the Patriot Act is the final straw in the shift from a democratic republic to an absolute dictatorship.

What didn't happen again? If Flight 800 was shot down by terrorists, then a terrorist attack certainly DID happen again. And if you are talking about 9/11, you can bet the family farm that it will happen again. In fact, the "esteemed integrity" of our government depends on it after they have made it clear to us that there will be another massive terrorist attack in the US again at some point.

Do people want to know that the loving parents they had growing up thought about having them aborted when they were in the womb? Do you want to know that your mother slept around on your dad when you were growing up? No, some things should be kept private and if for some reason you ask about them...you should be lied to about them...for your own good.

Perhaps a child should be sheltered from the truth when they are a child, but they still should not be lied to. Let's give a few examples. Say a child ends up having to deal with an unexpected pregnancy during their teens. Is it not then the responsibility of the parent to be truthful about their own experience, and to offer guidance? And what about a child who growns up to deal with infedility in their own marriage. Should not the parent realate what they once went through?

Let me give another example. Most kids don't have the "birds and the bees" talk until they are in their pre-teens. I had the talk with my parents when I was only five or so. It's a good thing I was not lied to, or had the subject put off. As it turned out, there was a pedophiliac predator in the neighborhood who had already victimized one of my neighbors.

reply to post by _Johnny_Utah_

It is an insult to people who lost family.

The lies told by our government are the only insults to the families and to the memory of those who died. I knew someone who died on 9/11, and I know other people who were there and managed to survive. My grandmother is a friend of the pilot who was supposed to be flying Flight 11, but switched shifts with the pilot who ended up dieing.

You can't the governemt to agree on the course we should take in Iraq, but this...no, no, this was different...this was a must do.

The "disagreement" over what course to take in Iraq is a deliberate obfuscation tactic. It legitimizes our long-term occupation.

The "blindly accepting" comment was meant to rebuff the ideas that because I didn't believe in a conspriacy, my line of thinking wasn't thought out.
Can someone not think it through and come to another answer?
I may be wrong, but there tends to be a sentiment that if you believe anything, anything at all, that is told you by the government...you are a fool. And if that is true...it's an absurd way to think.
Sometimes when they tell you it's cold outside, it's because....maybe you should wear a coat?

reply to post by _Johnny_Utah_

"hey, bob? You see all those guys with dynamite?"
"It's nothing. don't worry about it."

You obviously have no knowledge of covert ops or clandestine demolitions. 9/11 was far from the first time something was deliberately blown up. And I don't even necessarily believe the controlled demolition theory anyway. The towers were about to be condemned due to imminent structural failure do to cost/time saving varioations made to the original design when they were being built.

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
The idea that 9-11 was an inside job is an insult.

The idea that 9-11 was not an inside job is ridiculous. More hard evidence exists to prove a conspiracy than the official story. No true story has hundreds of ' inexplicable anomalies ' that are never investigated, discussed or confirmed.

Why do you think that the offcial story is true? Based on what?

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_Sometimes when they tell you it's cold outside, it's because....maybe you should wear a coat?

And if that person is a proven lier, I'd check for myself.

reply to post by BlueRaja

How would you describe it then? There are many theories out there, with only one thing in common with each other- it had to have been an inside job.

I would describe it as an ongoing investigation. That's why there are so many theories left on the table. The one theory that has been discredited is the one given to us by the 9/11 Comission.