Ok...now we've stepped into the relm of the Illuminati and such...Here's the deal with me. I used to be a believer in the Bilderberg and all that stuff...now, getting sorta iffy (sp?)
I may have seen the show you are talking about. Isn't he the guy who stands outside a building in texas shouting with a megaphone? He talks about how this skyscraper looks like an owl or something. He goes to canada and stalks this meeting where rich people meet? Maybe it's not him but if not it is guy just like him.
I have watched several of the "movies" or "films" on 9-11. I really have, I promise. And to be honest, I have to say they are compelling. They bring up many issue a lot of people outside of here don't want to talk about.
I am not trying to be rude either.
I think many people have a hard time accepting the fact that a very primative people were able to do what they did. I think it is much easier or maybe safer to believe there was more behind it. we can then blame "them" whoever they are. When people fall in line behind conspiracy theories and blindly accept those...they are somehow enlighten...but if someone believes or mostly buys the official story...well they are fools. Do you see the contradiction?
Now, to the point of being able to handle the truth and thinking the country should be full of sheep...of course I don't think that. I wouldn't be tossing out my ideas if I thought that.
I believe there are some things that should be kept from the public. Parents keeps troubles away from their kids. It's sort of similar in a way.

I bet i am so hated

The TRUTH is the only option.


Lies breed distrust.


There is no good reason to lie, there is no acceptable situation.


When the government lies, it isn't to 'protect' the people, it is to protect itself from liabilities. Lies to guide you a certain way is propaganda.


We the people are in charge, we are the employers. All forms of government and departments are there to serve us, they exist because we allow them to, they have no right to lie.


Would you allow your employees to lie to you? To protect you from what? As the employer, are you not ultimately responsible for all things and you should know and be in control of all things?

The will of the people is the duty of the government. Never forget that.


If it was the Navy, mistakes are made, humans are not infallible. I doubt it was terrorists back then ... I do recall when it happened.


Lies are a sign of corruption and culpability. Things have been allowed to happen in the past, things have been done by our own in the past. If they lie to keep you on their side, or to get their way ... then they are just as legally responsible as if it was their own hand.

Did not Charlie Manson go to jail though he did not commit the murders himself? Would you not also be convicted of a crime if you withheld evidence of a crime or destroyed/removed evidence from the crime scene?


The government, the military, and all other sections paid by the people are not above the laws that exist for the rest of us ... in fact, they should be held to a higher standard while representing us.


I will never accept an excuse that it is in my best interest to be lied to, not by the government, not by a friend, not by a family member. Deceit is never the right thing to do and is never acceptable.

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
9-11 is a whole seperate issue...two of the largest buildings in the world came down. You can't hide or cover that up

You are right they couldn't cover it up, if only they had your wisdom when they did.

I think what Jack is saying is just that.

- Con

I understand how you feel about the lies. But can you really compare our government to a business? Our government spies, knocks off bad guys, and goes to war with other nations (this has nothing to do with Iraq, just a broad statement), and all sorts of stuff like that...
When business does things in the same way, it is called insider trading and it is illegal. So, while some of the comparisons hold...they all don't.
And while we the people are the employer, we are not an employer in the regular sense of the word. We elect (hire) people to do what we choose, but there are limits (and rightly so) to the information we can access. A CEO has no such trouble.
I am not a fan of cover-up's, but I do think there needs to a balance or a frame of reference to what the nation or the world is told.
If a false statement is given, but when it is said it protects the national and economic welfare of America...almost 300 million, I think there is an amount of good caused through it which out-weighs the damage or evil of the lie itself.
Which would be worse? Lying to the public or causing a national panic about something we can't control and didn't happen again?
People want the truth and so do I. But do I need all of it?
Do people want to know that the loving parents they had growing up thought about having them aborted when they were in the womb? Do you want to know that your mother slept around on your dad when you were growing up? No, some things should be kept private and if for some reason you ask about them...you should be lied to about them...for your own good.
I hope that makes sense...

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
The idea that 9-11 was an inside job is an insult.

to who?

It is an insult to people who lost family. It is an insult to the those who died. It is an insult to America.
It is out of the relm of an reasonable thought to think two or three, or however many buildings people are now saying, were set up with explosive charges and timed just right so when a plane flew into them...that's when they go off. Think of the man hours put into something like that...yet, nothing seems off to any of the workers in the towers. Were they in on it too? Was that their part in the plot...to burn or be crushed alive?
Think of the people who would have to be involved and all of them lock-step in an evil purpose...
You can't the governemt to agree on the course we should take in Iraq, but this...no, no, this was different...this was a must do.
But wait...the Illuminati did this.

"hey, bob? You see all those guys with dynamite?"
"It's nothing. don't worry about it."

I was starting worry I missed a memo that said I had to believe in a 9-11 conspiracy to belong here!
Nice to know I'm not alone!

Something to remember, the government work for US, not us for them, although that is the way things have turned out. It's about time people woke up to the reality of what is happening and started demanding the truth.

Would people go to buy goods, a car, a house etc and expect or accept to be lied to by the salesperson? It's the same with government. A lot of what they cloak in the old "national security" secrecy is tosh and is used simply to divert attention away from something illegal they are up to. Things that could possibly cause them great harm were the public to ever find out.

Politicians, by their very nature, are usually the most dishonest people you could ever come across. Would they plot the deaths of their own citizens to further their own agendas? Hell yeah!, it's a power thing and they all crave power, which is why they are in the job to start with

So, after that rant and back to the real meat of the issue, should we be told the truth ALL the time? Absolutely!
By lying to us and covering things up, the government lose all credibility and trust

Originally posted by _Johnny_Utah_
It is an insult to people who lost family. It is an insult to the those who died. It is an insult to America.

ok, I will accept that logic. Now help me understand it.

1 - people who lost family.

- there are also plenty of people who lost family members who also question the official story. Are you implying that they are insulting themselves? Would you think that a family member has more or less justification to question the story? Would it be better for a family member to be insulted, or is it ok if they are the ones doing the insulting?

2 - people who died.

- fortunately, insults have no effect on the dead.

3 - america

- america is an abstract concept representing a nation of people. you cannot insult america, anymore than you can insult the color blue.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
They've made up their minds that regardless of what happened

projection. seems you have made up your mind, and furthermore you have made up your mind on what other people have made up their minds about. that's actually one step beyond the normal level of assumption I'm used to seeing around here.

911 was an inside job
911 was an inside job
911 was an inside job

Hey bill Clinton.....911 was an inside job..
did I insult you?....so sorry....

bilderburg, federal reserve.irs,fema,darpa,un,cia,mossad,bush.clinton
fox,cnn.

you can all go to H.

lies lies lies lies

thats all we get.

death death death death
thats all we get.

sure I trust them............NOT

Originally posted by scientist

Originally posted by BlueRaja
They've made up their minds that regardless of what happened

projection. seems you have made up your mind, and furthermore you have made up your mind on what other people have made up their minds about. that's actually one step beyond the normal level of assumption I'm used to seeing around here.

How would you describe it then? There are many theories out there, with only one thing in common with each other- it had to have been an inside job. Now whether one believes it was allowed to happen, whether holographs hit the WTC, whether it was a controlled demolition, high energy particle beam, small hyrdogen bomb, cruise missile, Global Hawk disguised as a airliner, a remotely piloted airliner, etc...not all CTers can even come to a consensus, but they KNOW it was a inside job. I mean we all know that Bush and Cheney are the most evil men in the world, and capable of anything, so it's no stretch to assume they'd do something like that. Perhaps all those that have been abducted and sent to Montauk, or influenced by Chemtrails or HAARP, so when they hear Relax, that triggers them into becoming mindless agents of the Masonic NWO.

Yes that is the great way of dealing with things,only hear what you want to hear,how does lying to us substantiate that we are better off not knowing the truth,I prefer to be told truth and make my own decisions,thats the problem with the US,they are the perfect mushrooms

I don't see how ANY government can survive by keeping everything in the open. In our personal, business, and religious matters we don't either. There are somethings we like/need to keep private.
If we are the employer like you say (and i agree with you) then the model of the cars salesman doesn't match. We are both the buyer and the seller, maybe more true....we have hired a someone to sell us something.

the sad fact is that there are bad people out there who would love nothing more than to have nations like the UK and America destroyed. In order to preserve those things we hold dear, there has to be a film of darkness. If you had an enemy who wanted to kill you or ruin you, would you broadcast everything you did to him? would you make sure anyone who wanted to know anything about you knew? Would tell him you plan to stop him and you are going after him in this way with this certain route? No, that would be silly.

Maybe some of the difference we have, i think, is in how we see people overall. Yes, there are some people who would do anything to stay in power, but to say or make it seem like most of them are like that is unfair. they are people just like you and I...some good, some bad.

The truth isn't always helpful to situations. Is it wise to tell a mass of people the building is on fire or there is a bomb threat, or is it better to have them evacuate calmly and with order? Then once the situation is past, they are safe...
When we look back on things we say "yes, I deserved to know!"
But the reality is all we needed to know was that things were taken care of

Originally posted by BlueRaja
How would you describe it then? There are many theories out there, with only one thing in common with each other- it had to have been an inside job.

"inside job" is just a bumper sticker term that reduces an entire population into a small pigeon hole of conspiracy theorists. The truth is, "inside job" simply means that someone in our government was aware of the events before they happened, regardless of their own part in the events.

Much like when I make a post questioning the facts of a holocaust, I am instantly called a holocaust denier, and a bigot. Or when you question religion you are called an atheist around here. It's ust not true. these are all logical fallacies people use when they don't have a strong opinion of their own. They just try to trivialize your position by using these bumper sticker terms.

I don't care about discussing 9/11 in this thread, it seems like the thread is about a much bigger topic than this single event.