Why do Christians always assume they're right?

Why do Christians always assume they're right?
Why do Jews always assume they're right?
Why do Muslims always assume they're right?
Why do Hindis always assume they're right?
Why do Bhuddists always assume they're right?
Why do Pagans always assume they're right?
Why do Atheists always assume they're right?
Why do Agnostics always assume they're right?

...did I miss anyone?

Mormans?? -- well, they're technically Christians.

[edit on 2/12/2008 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by coop039
I would like to here a christian point of view on the fact that the virgin birth and 3 kings and the date is all base on the stars. Also what do they think about all the religions prior to Jesus having such similarites. In fact, I would love it if a christian would watch part 1 of the zeitgest movie and give us an explanation.

Most historians (not BIBLICAL THEOLOGIANS, actual historians) Refute most, if not much of the claims put together in the "film." Most of it is all anecdotal evidence, with no real historical backing to it, just assumptions, and the theory of Jesus being a complete myth has several major hurdles that go against it.

This is talking about Jesus in a human aspect, not in the divine aspect.

In terms of historical context, theres enough evidence to point to Jesus existing as a man, in Israel, around 0 BCE - 33 CE, and having a rather larger cult forming around him.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


You missed alot actually, you forgot:

Taoists, Shintoists, Bah'aists, Confusists, Sikhists, Scientologists, Spirituists, Paganists, Zoroastrians, Universalists, Jains, Caodaists, Chondogyoists, Yiguandaoists, Raelianists, and Alien religions not yet introduced to Humans yet.

reply to post by WolfofWar


So the film makers just made up all the astrologial evidence? What about the zodiac? And the End of Age? I understand that most of the film is conspiritorial, but all the religions through out history with LOTS of parallels
to christianity? Is there ACTUAL proof that Jesus existed?

reply to post by coop039


Wolf of War is correct. It's bumpkus. The links in my signature should help clarify everything you just asked about Jesus' existence, Zeitgeist, and pagan parallels. As he said, it's anecdotal and purely false evidence. Enough said.

reply to post by coop039


The Bible does not give us a year or date on when Jesus was born, only references to important events at the time. For example, who was in power, the national census, and of course, the star that stood over the manger. There are a lot of smarter heads than mine researching this to give a more exact time frame based on these clues.

My feeling is, who cares? The important thing is not the time, nor the astrological configurations, but the fact that it did happen and the spiritual reasons it happened. Jesus was born, Jesus lived a perfect life, Jesus died for repentance of all (not just Christians, Jews, or Gentiles).

As to other religions having similarities to Christianity, this is indeed true. I sat through a Western History 101 class in college that stressed this fact, mainly comparing Christianity with Zoroasterism (sp?). I was intrigued by these similarities, but have not really done more research into them. I have too much on the ball already with my research, and there are only 24 hours in my day. So I do accept that many other religions have similarities to the Christian historical record, and at this point in my life, I simply see that as an indicator that maybe all of them had a similar influence from the final truth. After all, I can't tell you that everything that was translated into the KJV version of the Bible was dot-for-tittle accurate, or even that there wasn't some amount of of inaccuracy in the perceptions of the human authors of the Gospels. I simply accept that this appears to me to be the story that makes the most sense of the world condition. We do have several works that refer back to the original Hebrew/Greek scrolls and allow the Bible reader to research into the accuracy of the translations though. One I find particularly helpful is Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.

No idea about the film? you're referring to, so ignorant on that subject.

Hope this helps.

TheRedneck


[edit on 12-2-2008 by TheRedneck]

Originally posted by WolfofWar

Originally posted by coop039
I would like to here a christian point of view on the fact that the virgin birth and 3 kings and the date is all base on the stars. Also what do they think about all the religions prior to Jesus having such similarites. In fact, I would love it if a christian would watch part 1 of the zeitgest movie and give us an explanation.

Most historians (not BIBLICAL THEOLOGIANS, actual historians) Refute most, if not much of the claims put together in the "film." Most of it is all anecdotal evidence, with no real historical backing to it, just assumptions, and the theory of Jesus being a complete myth has several major hurdles that go against it.

This is talking about Jesus in a human aspect, not in the divine aspect.

In terms of historical context, theres enough evidence to point to Jesus existing as a man, in Israel, around 0 BCE - 33 CE, and having a rather larger cult forming around him.

Good point, WolfofWar...and it isn't only Christians who believe that Jesus existed. Jews and Muslims both acknowledge the existence of Jesus Christ -- but only as a man and not the son of God.

...and thanks for completing my list.

[edit on 2/12/2008 by Soylent Green Is People]

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Yeshua is the most quoted prophet in the Qur'an, even moreso than Mohammad.

The Muslims religion do recognize the existence of Yeshua, but not of the son of God or a God...Only a prophet, which goes along with my view.

I don't doubt Yeshua's existence. I do doubt his "Godliness."

reply to post by TheWalkingFox



a star for that comment right there. you are in many ways very correct. Christians use 'God' to deal with their problems instead of taking responsiblity for their own actions. Or, they look to God to save them from an upcoming punishment or problem in their life.

Example: "please Jesus!..help me with paying my cell phone bill!" .... or maybe "please God, I know I effed up but I don't want to go to jail!"..or whatever, but this is the mentality of a lot of Christians. I have heard this one too..."why did God let this happen?"

People want free will, right? Yet they ask for help or they want something to happen..or not to happen by asking their 'God'. How is this free will?

No matter which way you look at it, if ther is a miracle or "help" from an outside source such as 'God'..then their is no free will. If there by some chance exists a 'God' the way Jews and Christians and Muslims depict 'God' and that 'God' decided to intervene in just one of these peoples situations that cry out to him, that is the most unjust God and inhumane God that could possibly be. Think of some of the worst things that have happened. Your telling me that God is going to YOU help with YOUR f'n bills you have to pay, but he isn't going to help the orphan on the street dying of aids that his prostitute mom gave him?

I almost want to say how dare you ask for your greedy help regarding yourself when there is such travesty going on in the world. Much larger than your puny little problems. (I am talking about the wonderful Christians that go to church every sunday, but go home and cheat on their wives and drive around in their big suv's and cut peole off and flip them off and could give a crap about anybody else out there...these people are the judges, lawyers, business execs and , oh god, dont get me started on the tv evangelists...out there that usually make a lot of money..and of course itis not limited to these christians alone, but those are examples of some)

I don't have a problem with people who would like to put faith in stories. I understand that, but when it comes to facing lifes problems, in my opinion it is sad how much of the "heavy lifting of their own problems" people put on a 'God' that admits he doesn't always answer your prayers. It is amazing!

sorry for the little rant. sometimes it just sickens me how hypocritical people are.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Great point. Jesus is in all three religions. To debate his existence as a man is to deny historical evidence.

The difference is simply in the importance placed on Jesus. Muslims tend to view him as a minor prophet, Jews as a major prophet, and Christians as the Jewish Messiah (who the Jews are still waiting on).

TheRedneck

Originally posted by coop039
reply to post by WolfofWar

 

So the film makers just made up all the astrologial evidence? What about the zodiac? And the End of Age? I understand that most of the film is conspiritorial, but all the religions through out history with LOTS of parallels
to christianity? Is there ACTUAL proof that Jesus existed?

I didn't say he made up the evidence, as the film maker took old theories and did a decent job compiling them. They weren't his ideas.

Most, if not all of the astrological evidence pointed to in zeitgeist is pointing at things added by external dogma (i.e. not even really in the bible) that were combined, mostly by the Roman Empire during Constantines reign, as a way to incorporate earlier Roman pagan traditions into Christianity. Things like December 25th, being Jesus' birthday, is found nowhere in the bible, but just accepted by external dogma.

Many of the religious figures mentioned in the film that were stated to resemble the Christ mythos had huge errors in them. Many were outright lies to make it sound like the whole "son of god savior myth" was a big thing, for example, it's said that Attis was crucified, died, burried, and came back. He actually, according to the myths, bled to death by castration, not by being crucified.

Alot of the other things in the film were erroneous (there are no "3 kings" in the Bible, wise men, perhaps. Joseph was never born a virgin birth, in any scripture, any version.) etc.

As for proof of Jesus' existence? Theres some. He was mentioned by four various Roman writers, Flavius Josephus had written about the trail and execution of Jesus in his testimonials just a few years after Jesus would have been killed. Another politicians writings confirm the existence of Pilate, and Jesus, and the execution itself. Theres many many accounts from Roman officials and even Jewish law scribes that account for a man named Jesus, and often in the Roman testaments, called "Christus" having a following, having been killed, being an idolater, being tried by the Roman Courts, and executed by Pilate.

For a bit of circumstantial evidence in support of these accounts, theres also the fact of how much of a threat Christianity was to the Roman order at the time. Wars, fights...utter chaos. Rome was known for crushing cults to keep followers out, by using propaganda. If Jesus was even thought to be a fictitious figure by some, the Roman government would've exploited that to it's fullest extent. The fact that theres not a single example of that being used just further strengthens the argument for a historical Jesus the Nazarene.

If a group is that hard core about their belief. It might not be a bad idea to investigate the motivation. The human mind is easily deceived for the right and the wrong. Better have the facts.


Personally, I would not have much respect for someone who does not think they are right in the faith they choose.

I like the quote. "It will all come out in the wash"

Originally posted by Incarnated

Jesus is well documented as having to study and think about many things, or at least search out the understandings...

Show us this "documentation".

Originally posted by WolfofWar

Alot of the other things in the film were erroneous (there are no "3 kings" in the Bible, wise men, perhaps. Joseph was never born a virgin birth, in any scripture, any version.) etc.

Great post, and great explanation, but one correction: Jesus is specified to be of virgin birth, and this is a vital characteristic of the faith.



This is from Matthew, Chapter 1 and can be found here should anyone want to verify it.

And looking at the time, I have to get going. I won't be back until tomorrow night, so maybe we can continue this then. Until then, y'all take care.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


I was talking about Joseph, not Jesus actually. The movie claims that Joseph was born of a virgin and had 12 brothers. And it tried to claim that Jesus was actually Joseph.

@wolforwar and ashleyd: Thank you both for your responses. The more I delve into history, the more interesting it becomes.

@ashleyd: I have read some of your sig links. Great reading. I will read more of them when I get time.

Originally posted by WolfofWar

Originally posted by coop039
I would like to here a christian point of view on the fact that the virgin birth and 3 kings and the date is all base on the stars. Also what do they think about all the religions prior to Jesus having such similarites. In fact, I would love it if a christian would watch part 1 of the zeitgest movie and give us an explanation.

Most historians (not BIBLICAL THEOLOGIANS, actual historians) Refute most, if not much of the claims put together in the "film." Most of it is all anecdotal evidence, with no real historical backing to it, just assumptions, and the theory of Jesus being a complete myth has several major hurdles that go against it.

This is talking about Jesus in a human aspect, not in the divine aspect.

In terms of historical context, theres enough evidence to point to Jesus existing as a man, in Israel, around 0 BCE - 33 CE, and having a rather larger cult forming around him.

But why did this Jesus "won" the battle to be the chosen one so to speak?
To my recollection there were a lot of others claiming to be the son of god curing the sick and walking on water etc...

reply to post by WolfofWar


Duh, you know, I never did get that thing about letters and words all worked out....

My apologies WoW. I did indeed misread your post. I'm just glad i checked one last time before I left so I could retract my misunderstanding. You were correct, sir.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


No biggie.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
Why do Christians always assume they're right?
Why do Jews always assume they're right?
Why do Muslims always assume they're right?
Why do Hindis always assume they're right?
Why do Bhuddists always assume they're right?
Why do Pagans always assume they're right?
Why do Atheists always assume they're right?
Why do Agnostics always assume they're right?

...did I miss anyone?

Mormans?? -- well, they're technically Christians.

[edit on 2/12/2008 by Soylent Green Is People]

Jews, Buddhists, pagans,agnostics, and hindus dont always assume they're right you may want to study up a bit on their views on other faiths, then post.