Why do Christians always assume they're right?

Originally posted by Incarnated
None are "Right" but the christians are less wrong

now if that isn't orwellian double-speak straight from 1984, I don't know what is.

There is a 2 person race. Russia comes in 2nd, US comes in 1st. Russian newspaper reads: "Russia finishes second place, US next to last!"

Interesting topic. I have a new take on religion after watching watch part 1 of this movie. Facinating stuff. I was never aware of how many religions have a savior that follows the same outline as Jesus. And the connection to the stars and zodaic was very informing. I dont get into the conspiritorial aspect of the rest of the movie too much. But part 1 was great.

video.google.com...

Originally posted by Incarnated
Now That is an absolutely truthful statement with powerful implications that is overlooked by too many fools.

Jesus is well documented as having to study and think about many things, or at least search out the understandings, thusly if Jesus came back today he wouldn't be able to match up with people's ideology of what he is "Supposed to be like".

Actually there isn't a single shred of evidence that Jesus ever existed, not one. Nothing about Jesus' life is well-documented. The name Jesus was mentioned in one ancient document outside of the Bible, but it had so little context that it is impossible to know who it referred to.

OP: They have to believe they're right, in order to have faith. The problem is that they not only believe others are wrong, but that they are evil, corrupted, or damaged in some way and that it is the Christians' job to fix everyone else. That's where everyone's problems with Christianity stem from.

Faith and truth are two paths that rarely ever cross.

Failure to comprehend the opening 1/3 of Zeitgeist.

ZEITGEIST, The Movie - Official Release - Part 1 of 3
26 min - Jun 26, 2007
video.google.com...

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne

You're forgetting about the part where the earliest records of those texts were written 40-100 years after Jesus' supposed death. So he's correct, no LIVE accounts. Just hearsay, legend, and stories passed down. And were most likely changed, altered, forgotten about, and forged.

Just deal with it, you'll be a happier person.

Actually, I am a happpy person, usually. But this response just proves the point I was trying to get across. There cannot be any of the 'proof' that seems to be required, since the only way to get information from that era in history is through writings. If you immediately dismiss those writings, then you have effectively said "I want proof" and "I refuse to hear proof" in the same breath.

Originally posted by Allred5923

OR..... perhaps... "Christians are the mentally ill?"

And this is what leads me to even intervene in this discussion. Why is it that my beliefs are assumed to be some sort of mental disease, yet atheistic, Buddist, or even radical Muslim views are accepted?

I can see only two possible reasons that, to my mind, make sense.

1) People are afraid of Christianity. To that, I ask why? Please don't plague me with answers about Salem witch trials or the Crusades, or the Spanish Inquisition. None of these are consistant with Biblical teachings, nor are they looked upon by any Christians I know as justified in any way.

2) The Bible prediction of unjust persecution of Christians in the end times is coming to pass.

And the board appears to have crashed... oh, well, this really isn't going anywhere anyway. I got my opinion out, and I'll be out of town for a couple days. Cheers, all.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck

2) The Bible prediction of unjust persecution of Christians in the end times is coming to pass.

So a minority of Christians who whine because they feel the need for some sort of imaginary entitlement is labeled as persecution? And a sign of the end times? Well good luck with that War on Christianity-thing. I'm sure Jesus would be so very proud.

oooooh, I've been wanting for a while to post this video that pretty much pokes fun of these "selfrighteous" arrogant people that blindly follow the bible (Note: I'm not talking about all christians, only those that are so extremely fanatic, they actually believe it's ok to kill in the name of god)

Anyway, here's the link to a 10 min. excerpt of "Penn and Tellers: The bible is bullsh*t"

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by die_another_day


christian+rap = Oxymoron lol!
I once received a CD (forced on me is more like it) for christian rock and in retrospect, I can't help but laugh. Rock/Heavy metal/Rap have basically been (the principle at least) about questioning authority (until it became about money and women) which couldn't be more opposite to christianity were you're not allowed to question the almighty.

Hmmm, must have been my connection, the thread seems to have returned... oh, this must be God's way of showing me that I am to fight for what is right and take no mercy on the unbelievers!

Originally posted by crudos

Originally posted by TheRedneck

2) The Bible prediction of unjust persecution of Christians in the end times is coming to pass.

So a minority of Christians who whine because they feel the need for some sort of imaginary entitlement is labeled as persecution? And a sign of the end times? Well good luck with that War on Christianity-thing. I'm sure Jesus would be so very proud.

Classic debate technique, my friend; the outlandish second possibility exists to enforce the first possibility. Sort of like the last line in the quote above, a classic attempt to shame the opponent.

I should point out that I am not a recipient nor an advocate of any entitlements based on my religion, gender, age, origin, or any other reason. My point is that I am an advocate of only one 'entitlement', and that is freedom to choose which religion I believe in, and to express that belief in a peaceful and lawful manner. As such I also advocate your freedom to choose which, if any, religion you ascribe to, with the same freedom of expression. Now exactly how is that dangerous to you or to society as a whole?

TheRedneck

Just to let everyone know I called it before it happened:

Originally posted by AshleyD
This is what drives me nuts about threads like this. It is never anything new but the same arguments over and over and over and over and over again... I'm counting down the pages until someone posts the Zeitgeist movie...

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
ZEITGEIST, The Movie - Official Release - Part 1 of 3
26 min - Jun 26, 2007
video.google.com...

Is there a manual secretly being passed around with instructions on how to drive Christians insane by posting the same information repeatedly even when it has already been refuted?

perhaps it's just another one of god's ways of testing your faith

You could thank the zeitgeist links for that, if nothing else. It beats going crazy, right

Originally posted by TheRedneck
2) The Bible prediction of unjust persecution of Christians in the end times is coming to pass.

Okay TheRedneck, lets try a different tack. I'm just trying to wrap my little brain around the whole idea that Christians are being persecuted and that the end times are near. People are unjustly persecuted daily and have been since the dawn of mankind, so what makes what is perceived as going on today as a sign of end times?

Also, I was going to start another new thread, but will bring it up here. What Christians are being persecuted? I mean is it a certain branch of Christianity, like Lutherans, Catholics, Evangelicals, etc, that feel this way, or is it a more general attitude faced by the bulk of people who identify as Christians? Not trying to be flip, just want to understand. Thanks.

reply to post by luxor311


you really need to get out more

there are equally biggoted and intransigent moslems , hindu`s , militant atheists etc etc

heck - how far do you think you would get attempting to argue that the pharoh was not a living god in the court of ancient egypt , or persuading a WWII japanese that the emperor was not a god ?

if yu thought before running off on your little rant, it might have occured to you that it is an article of faith that your belief structure is the correct one , and few religions welcome agnosticism

it amazes me how your ignorant virtriol has got so many flags / stars

APE - an atheist by virtue of absence of evidence , not faith

I think the question the OP should be asking instead is: "Why do Christians assume the Bible is right?"

It's a book, a collection of myths... one of many. Why choose that particular one? Seems to me people believe what they want to believe.

There are many different possibilities, some more probable than others. Most of the stories in the Bible are fanciful tales which defy logic. You can't believe in such things unless you really want to. That's the most obvious fact, because there are other possibilities (such as what science has to offer) which make a whole hell of a lot more sense.

I mean come on... Adam made from dirt? Eve created from his rib? That piece of bread at church being the actual BODY of Jesus? There's no proof, there's no logic. Yet people believe it blindly because they're fed that quote "blessed are those who believe without having seen" and they're told they'll go to hell and burn forever if they don't believe.

People believe they are right either because something makes sense, or because they convinced themselves that something else is the "truth".

I guess I'll see the rest of you non-believers in hell.

I usually don't get involved in religious discussions...

However, I felt this thread pretty relevant to today.



Let me get a few things across to my fellow ATS posters.

The bible is not fact. No religious text is fact.

It is all the perception of the authors of the time on how they think their 'people' should behave.

Jesus Christ is not a God. He is a prophet. He was a man. Nothing more, nothing less.

His message is what you should be following, not the man himself.

He speaks a message of truth, love, and peace, yet you seem to equate that with Godliness.

He is not God. He is not.

He is a part of God just like all of us. A minor fraction of the totality of the ALL.

The entirety of God can not take the form of a person. It is simply not possible.

You have to be outside the body to experience such an event.

Follow his message, not the man.

The divinity of Yeshua ben Joseph was not even set in stone until one of the Councils hundreds of years after his death (Nicaea?).

Emperor Constantine of the Eastern Roman Empire needed a unifying banner and he manipulated the message of "The Way" to suit his needs.

You are all following a Roman pagan religion woven into the "Way."

If you follow the "Way" you would not need to attend church nor read the bible as you would know the path to God is personal.

The "House of God" is your temple, your body. You do not need to go to church to get to know your God.

Lookup Gnosticism and you may have a better idea what I'm getting at.

The "Apocrypha" of the bible are usually more truthful than the gospels themselves...

The bible is a creation of "Saint Paul," a Roman who sided with the Roman empire to help out Constantine's quest for power.

The Roman pagan religion evolved out of the Babylonian and Egyptian mystery schools.




"FOR THOSE WHO STAND BEHIND THE FALSE IMAGE OF THE SON OF MAN SHALL STAND BEFORE GOD!"

[edit on 2/12/2008 by biggie smalls]

Why do we believe anything?

We put our trust in observation based on our senses

We put our trust based on our own thoughts and imagination

We put our trust in the words of others that inspire us.


People believe in things, because it touches them in a way that rings true. It's not really about being right, its about being right to the individual.

As Siddhartha Gautama said:

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.

reply to post by crudos


Sheesh, did you even read my last post?

I never said I was being persecuted, I simply stated that there was an inordinate amount of negative emotions towards the religion in general. This negativity seems, to me anyway, to be based on both a misunderstanding of the Bible (seemingly related to people not reading it before deciding what it says), and hostility toward a religion that will not bend it's basic tenets to agree with more modern practices.

Look at the title of this thread. 'Why do Christians always assume they're right?' Why does anyone with a belief assume they're right? That is patently illogical; if they didn't assume they were right, they wouldn't believe it. Would any (sane) individual ever think 'I think this is wrong, but I'm going to believe it anyway'? [humor]OK, maybe Global Warming enthusiasts, but that's off topic.[/humor] (tags inserted for reader's clarity)

I contend simply that it is my right, under both a moral and constitutional stance, to believe in any religion I choose, as well as to freely and openly exercise the religious rites and tenets that arise from that religion.

In stark contrast, I have seen numerous threads here that contend that such is not my right, but rather I am 'wrong' and somehow dangerous to society because I have exercised freedom of religion toward a religion the posters (apparently) do not agree with. You want a few examples? Besides the obvious opening post, try here, here, here, here, here, and here, all in this one thread.
Taken individually, these could be seen as individual expressions of belief, of which nothing is wrong, but taken together, they show an intense fear and loathing of anything Christian. Rest assured that I do not htem anyone for these posts, nor do I think they should not be allowed to speak their mind. I do, however, think I should be able to refute claims about my religion that are inaccurate, such as God being an old guy with a beard or the Inquisition being a accurate prtrayal of Christianity as a whole.

I see Muslim radicals flying jets into skyscrapers while screaming about Allah. I see worldwide cries for vengeance over a stuffed bear named Muhammed. I see killings and bombings on a daily basis in the Mideast, and no, I do not mean in Iraq. Yet any time someone mentions how 'evil' the Muslim religion appears, I see untold minions coming to the rescue of the religion.

I see a madman kill 'radical' Christian children in Lancaster PA, and then I see the parents of those children forgive the family of the killer, even donate money to them that was donate to the Amish victims, open their homes to the families of the killer, all while mourning their loss. Around the same time I hear a celebrity such as Rosie O'Donnell cry the 'radical Christians are just as dangerous as radical Muslims'. I heard no one even question that statement.

For crying out loud, one recent thread (that I cannot locate right now, sorry) was about a discovery of new fossil evidence, and was turned into a chant against Christianity! Not by a Christian post, but by an anti-Christian post. I left the thread in disgust.

Oops, out of characters...TBC

TheRedneck

ALL RELIGION IS WRONG WHEN TAKEN TO EXTREMES.

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

John Winston Lennon
9 October 1940 – 8 December 1980