Debunking Secret Facility Fakers

Direct and to the point, if a bit brusque in your delivery. Had I given a concrete set of assumptions, I'd be inclined to agree. Instead, if you re-read my post, I think you'll find the following statements are more in line with my message:



If you feel I was a bit too restrictive in my wording, then I invite you to come up with less exacting of an assertion. However, IMHO, for me to have gotten any more "general" with my wording would have made the post rather useless and frustrating to read.



Incorrect. You can also make such claims when people you have reason to trust more than others have had direct first-hand experience in such places and choose to relay what information to you that they can.

For instance, if my father, whom has never given me reason to doubt his word, travels to Europe for over 20 years, and comes back and says "In Europe, you will typically find older buildings than you would in America," I would be inclined to believe him, despite having never been to Europe. Not only is he someone I trust, but his assertion that Europe would have older buildings on average would be quite reasonable, considering the comparative ages and civilizations of both continents. If I wanted to be more certain, I would ask other people I trusted, whom had been to Europe, what they had seen. If they also told me that

In the end, I would feel comfortable relaying to other people that if they went to Europe, they could expect to, on average, see older buildings than in America. Now, one might ask, well, why not just have someone whose been to both America AND Europe post about the state of the buildings.

The answer to this allegorical question then is this: People who work in "Secret Facilities" have yet to come online and post here at ATS a guide as to how to debunk those who claim to be from them from those who really have been. To do so would probably get them fired, arrested, fined, or imprisoned. Perhaps worse. If someone verifiably from Area 51 were to hop online and say "Ah, here is the complete guide to how to know who is and is not from these types of facilities," then I would certainly defer to their knowledge.

As it stands, we do not have any such people, and I must instead hem together a guide based on the firsthand testimony of other people besides myself whom I can trust, and have been to such places, and post a secondhand guide for others to use as a yardstick when measuring the depth of fertilizer in certain threads.

I think it's pretty clear reading the original post that you are attempting to explain what you view as the normal experience of those who get and keep high-level clearances like those necessary to have access to facilities like Area 51. You certainly made it clear that you don't have firsthand knowledge of such things and that not all experiences will be the same. I also don't disagree with you that there is a lot of BS out there waiting to be exposed. I think it's simple enough to just say that anyone who has these clearances and access to any kind of "super secret" information is NOT going to get on ATS one evening and spill their guts. It follows that anyone who claims to do that is just blowing smoke, end of discussion. No doubt I'm being abrupt and final (even brusque), and people will disagree and point out that there's some small, even infinitesimal chance that I'm wrong and so they will hold out hope. We could argue for hours I suppose.

Anyway you rightly pointed out that assumptions are very important, and I agree with that. I think it's correct to question your assumption that your second- and third-hand knowledge is normal, just as it is correct to question the other poster's assumption that his firsthand experience was normal. At the end of the day we are left taking someone's word for it, and I am tempted to launch off on a rant about how that makes the whole discussion pointless from the start, but I will resist the urge.

Would that the world worked that way, but for some reason, there's still some people out there who just don't take my word as gospel, and instead require a logically, rationally laid out argument in support of my statements. So, yes, for those willing to take everything I say at face value, I could have just simply posted a one-line, closed thread, that said "Psshhht! No one with super-secret info is ever going to post here," and leave it at that. However, I have a feeling that those who believe otherwise would stand zero chance of being convinced, those on the fence would demand more substance than an off-hand statement, and those already agreeing, well, it'd merely be preaching to the choir.

Hence the rather long OP, outlining each part of the rationale, the follow-up questions and answers, and also leaving open the possibility that, yes, one day we might get a "press packet" from a renegade, or get a public whistle-blower on the site.



Well, honestly, the point was to give at least a starting set of questions that one should ask of anyone claiming to be from a secret facility, as a gauge of the liklihood of their being a hoax. It's obviously not foolproof, but it's a good starting point for people who've never given the subject much thought, or have never known anyone who worked at such facilities.

My experience matches scientists experience.

Desk jockeys & laborers? In my experience, Field Mice, Lab Rats, Pencil Pushers and the Clueless Clowns Clan.

Pencil Pushers means logistics. Supply guys and girls.

Clueless Clowns Clan includes upper management, secretaries, HR, Safety Nazi.

Field Mice have mud on their Red Wings, a vocabulary that would appall a drill sergeant, and a wicked sense of humor. Field Mice have fun at work.

Lab Rats tend to be prissy sissies. Obsessed with cleanliness, testosterone deficient, prone to huff "I DON'T think that kind of HUMOR is APPROPRIATE in the WORKPLACE". Tend to jump when a field mouse stands up suddenly within 20 feet.

You are subject to endless, tedious, dreary, dismal, mind numbing classes and lectures about the need for security. It comes up at least as often as safety.

You get paid 20% more than the next best job nearby, medical, dental, vacation, and a retirement pckage that makes putting up with the strange hours and strange people worth your time.

You would risk losing all that and becoming the queen of Cell Block D to post here because ??????????????????????????????

I would suggest that there really are only a few types of whistle-blowers and neither type is concerned with 'getting any exotic info out there to the people' under some altruistic motive.

One type we've seen and that is those who are concerned with safety, such as the Area 51 situation where workers were exposed to toxic fumes and their health is in jeopardy.

One other, rarer type might be a financial waste and abuse whistler blower. Possibly a third type might be a patriot who felt there was some espionage going on.

I really can't imagine a type that gets through the checks and still has this need to 'tell all' for sensational reasons.

In fact that secret knowledge, what little there is in any one compartment is what gives these workers some of their feeling of eliteness. They know something, however little, that we don't. They have no desire to change this or expose anything other than for the above reasons of safety and rarely, financial abuse.

[edit on 14-2-2008 by Badge01]

reply to post by thelibra

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This was very informative and true. Real people working there aren't going to say they worked there or they have worked there. They can't tell you anything at all if they worked there and if they did tell you they are either really dumb or want to go to jail or never be seen again.

shame people feel it necesary to hoax atall tbh

reply to post by thelibra

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Without mentioning where I worked, I severed my employment the day after Christmas, 1981. For two years after, my mail was intercepted for a week about twice a year (remember, this was pre-electronic revolution. No PCs, etc.). I'm sure my phone was "tapped" for awhile, and at least twice I caught two guys following me as I went to my new job. They weren't even trying to be covert. They were wasting their time. I signed three security documents; the usual "go to federal prison, no trial, yada, yada". It's been twenty-six years and a few months, and I still haven't told anyone anything. I'm a man of my word. Also, few would believe me, I have no proof, and there isn't a damn thing anyone on this board could do about it anyway. I did know a guy who (it was said) told another engineer that he was thinking about finding an anti-establishment newspaper to spill his guts to. I heard it took the fire dept. a long time to cut the body out of the wreckage.

I would say over half of anything thats posted on here is fake.Some people even tend to post everyday they claim they are involved with in different subjects.Its like why bother to post?

Another thing that gets me is when some web pages put down a list of secret bases around the country and come up with some really weird. In my state there is supposed to be a secret base under mount rainer and one under mount ST Helens.....that doesn't even make sense since both mountains are active at some level. Some people just need to get a life and not just try to get attention.