Debunking Secret Facility Fakers

a reply to: Slichter

The way most bad-guy hackers gain access to classified data on a separate intranet these days is by injecting spyware into a classified system by an unwitting agent--e.g., an employee who's unaware of any shenanigans. Here's an example: a cleared employee plugs his USB-powered vape charger into his work machine. The vape charger contains malware that uploads to the server, which gathers data and downloads it to RAM in the charger. At home, when the employee plugs the charger into his Internet-connected machine, the malware sends the stored data to the hacker.

What I'm really curious about is how the compartmentalization process
is designed. Each one different from the other regarding logistics, security etc..
Who decides and designs the way the programs and their technology (down to individual components)
get disseminated into the civilian sector.

Another interest is how the NSC, CIA spins off compartment projects and if there are different categories
for degrees of separation between. Especially the NSC, the component departments within the NSC are
the only entities within the National Security apparatus that has absolutely zero oversight. You would think
these directorates and principal committees would be all powerful. Problem being that their Presidential
level authority would be hampered by the fact that Presidents usually like to remain at arms length of the
Intelligence community. Though Presidents usually embrace their role as Commander in Chief.

Certain Executive departments have the power to create TSCI compartment programs. If issue of overlap,
I am curious if a compartment from CIA has priority over one started from the Air Force. The ODNI should
be able to see if this is happening. What if there is technology from one program that could accelerate
the rate of development of another one that is high priority time sensitive. Do programs born at NSC
have priority over everyone else? Would the President even want any black programs birthed straight
out of the White House (NSC). Compounding on the fact that each President does their own show.

Would any of these programs every be completely cut out from governmental controls? If so why? Doesn't
seem logical from the governments perspective. If they where removed, is it because they are not as important
or because they are considered the most critical national security issues. Maybe there are classes of TSCI projects
that are spun out. I'm guessing they do cut out a lot of programs, but the control elements are always kept in house.
Though "in house" can be a consortium of many exotic configurations.

Well72,

I'll address your questions and comments in bite-size chunks.

Q: Who decides and designs the way the programs and their technology (down to individual components) get disseminated into the civilian sector?

A: Compartments are information-handling methods. They can be physical (buildings, rooms, networks, etc.,) and they can be virtual. The program owner (which is a position--not a person--chartered by DoD as having the "need to know") is responsible to contain and maintain compartmented program information within the compartment.

Q: You would think these directorates and principal committees would be all powerful. Problem being that their Presidential level authority would be hampered by the fact that Presidents usually like to remain at arms length of the Intelligence community. Though Presidents usually embrace their role as Commander in Chief.

A: That defeats the intent of compartmentalization. No congressperson, agency director, or even the president has an "all-access backstage pass" to the intelligence apparatus.

Q: Certain Executive departments have the power to create TSCI compartment programs. If issue of overlap, I am curious if a compartment from CIA has priority over one started from the Air Force. The ODNI should be able to see if this is happening. What if there is technology from one program that could accelerate the rate of development of another one that is high priority time sensitive. Do programs born at NSC have priority over everyone else?

A: This is the most difficult piece of managing intelligence activities. Because congress appropriates and allocates funding for various federal agencies and military services, there is separation at certain levels of intel activities. There is also overlap--which is increasing (good news). The separation, however, is due to agency and service-specific intel requirements, which are often similar in nature but very specific to sources and methods that apply to the agency or military service.

Q: the President even want any black programs birthed straight out of the White House (NSC). Compounding on the fact that each President does their own show.

A: No, because that would subvert the tripartite system of checks and balances in government.

Q: Would any of these programs every be completely cut out from governmental controls? If so why? Doesn't seem logical from the governments perspective. If they where removed, is it because they are not as important or because they are considered the most critical national security issues. Maybe there are classes of TSCI projects that are spun out. I'm guessing they do cut out a lot of programs, but the control elements are always kept in house. Though "in house" can be a consortium of many exotic configurations.

A: A lot of intel activities are conducted by federal contractors, but under federal authority, with federal oversight. So the answer is really 'no'. Prior to the institution of the ODNI, there was excessive duplication of effort for intel activities that was driven by agency- and service-specific needs, some of which was compartmented. The ODNI process, however, has improved things quite a bit by bringing federal agency and military service components to a single table to deconflict and coordinate intel efforts. It is a good thing. Things are improving, and we're not done yet. Broken institutional processes take time, especially in the intel business, because of the historically-embedded culture of keeping the black curtain closed.

Cheers!

a reply to: TheTruthRocks
Thanks for your response.

Regarding Presidential access.
I respectfully disagree.
The President of the United States has the decree of the people. He essentially IS the United States of America. (Attend any military function that the President attends and see how they introduce him/her).

The President may not know everything that is going on, but’s that because there aren’t enough hours in a day to garner that much intel. I’m confident he knows about the most important and critical programs, no matter how deep their buried.

In reference to your last response. I have read articles involving high level former intelligence officials that infer that burying programs in the private sector and literally decoupling them from any government ties. The official didn’t elaborate why it would be done, or the possible ramifications.

a reply to: Well72

Regarding the president, "I’m confident he knows about the most important and critical programs, no matter how deep their buried."

You are correct; the programs that require presidential eyes-on have his attention.

However, there are many other compartmented activities that do not require his eyes on, and by law he has no need to know. Because of this, the authority for management of these other programs is downward-delegated to directors/staffs of agencies and leadership of intel components within the military departments.

"I have read articles involving high level former intelligence officials that infer that burying programs in the private sector and literally decoupling them from any government ties." These kinds of reports usually refer to the funding of intelligence activities, with the money streams getting purposefully buried in bureaucracy to conceal the actual use of the funding. These sorts of activities are finally having light shined on them and corrected, but there is still a lot of it going on because there are billions of dollars to be made by doing it. Much more work by responsible and honest participants is required.

US Intelligence activities are generally split between federal authorities contained in Title 10 US Code and and Title 50 USC. Title 10 authority describes employment of the military services (deter aggression, break things, and hurt people). Title 50 governs conduct of overt and covert foreign intelligence activities, which is carried out by federal agencies, as well as military service intel components under specific federal agency authorities.

There are no private-sector companies engaged in intel collection with no federal oversight. Think about this for a moment and you'll realize that any collection system (sources/methods) that can be used on adversaries can also easily be used on friendlies. DoD and non-DoD agencies do not take this kind of risk. It is also illegal, and people have been prosecuted and jailed for doing it.

I was neck-deep in the business for more than 35 years and I'm sharing my experience on these topics.

So I believe your saying that the President wouldn’t have the need (I take “need” to be equivelant to ”authorized”) to be notified of the program. Though you could mean that the President doesn’t need to know about mundane, irrelevant programs across the entire government.

It does make sense that some deep black program within programs would be decoupled when their intent involves raising funding completely off the books. And I’m sure some do get caught doing it. Though considering the nature of the industry, I doubt it will ever stop.

You don’t think that certain very critical issues (like Aliens hypothetically) would be provided a sort of Constitutional waiver to do what ever it takes to deconstruct the entire issue down to shredded and tattered subject matter? The funding being a cornerstone of that implement. Maybe only a few lifetime liaisons providing a top leadership to apparatus conduit?

OP...no

Who are the persons who choose who works where and what project starts where. Is it a bunch of generals somewhere, or perhaps even retired generals and only over 70 years old get in the club and they decide it all with some think tanks who give ideas and scientists.
Maybe Usa is run by generals, of 70 years and older. and retired, why not? They have the nukes so they might be ruling Usa.

originally posted by: ParticleNode
I can attest to the fact that in the TS/SCI wheelhouse the "cleared" world gets very un-sexy. My project's clearance designation was a number, nothing super-forum-cool like "Omega" or "Magik-12", and our work area resembled a storage closet more than a sleek and well-lit UFO hangar or some kind of set piece from War Games. This is actually the norm at most of the facilities I've worked in. Do you like strictly enforced color-coded walkways and awkward silence? Do you enjoy using technology built in 1986? Do you look forward to having a panel of individuals examine your life decisions? Is your visit-request paperwork updated so you can walk next door to the vending machine? It's the enlisted folks that get all the fun - they actually get to use some of this nifty equipment.

I'm curious if any other cleared folks here have had experience with the infamous "Lifestyle Poly". I only have anecdotal info on it but I'm told it's a whole separate bag of worms and another method of garnering your personal transparency. Neat.

Whats the point in a life like this. Sounds masochistic. I would rather fish in an tropoical island whole life than be a slave in come factory making guns for who knows what kind of lunatics and trigger happy ww3 crazy people.

Are these black project workers essentially just idiots (not you but those scientists at area 51) who allow their brain being sucked by who knows what, only for a small paycheck? The generals and company stock holders (some illuminati rich family) gets all the money while the scientist get a A4 paper award as recognition of their life work, which a dog accidentally eats so nothing is left in the end.

Also, has anyone proof they dont whack all the retired scientists? I mean why let them live if they have the secrets. I think its the dumbest idea to work in any black project. Or antything where you must sign a secrecy agreement, but they dont need to tell anything about themselves to you or sign anything.

Also, if generals are so paranoid, then I think the black project workers should marry generals and have children with their daughter, this is best way to keep secrecy. I mean you share a kid with the generals and vice versa so then people are loyal.

Where do the people who work at area 51 sleep ? They must have underground bunkers. Somebody's got to convince a worker with knowledge of NASA / Alien interactions to speak up.

a reply to: dronepronews

They have normal, aboveground, dormitories. These are clearly visible in aerial and satellite imagery. Former workers have described living in the dorms, which have been upgraded a few times over the years. Simple trailers from the 1950s were replaced by duplexes in the 1960s, and then more modern multi-unit buildings in the 1980s.

a reply to: thelibra

This post is interesting

Someone prove to me that aliens exist

Not saying I worked at any of these places but if I did and the government paid me and my co workers to play video games all day, sleep and chill out and the only job was just keep people from looking in, I would've spent a significant portion of my career there and I wouldn't have bothered telling the general public anything... not like the general public would believe you or care [they don't]. TBH, Most regular people are pricks and troublemakers and not worth telling anything to, you tell them and they shrug their shoulders and go back to whatever they were doing before. The others that really want to know are going to go and look for the jobs that tell you and do what needs to be done to get hired. You don't need 'Top Secret Clearance' for every single job out there that interacts with these facilities btw. Some facilities the government just doesn't give a hoot about, period. Some places, they just want to forget exist. Some of the places have hazardous materials that won't come out of the ground without causing the surrounding area health problems. There are at least 66 in Ontario to my knowledge and almost all of them make large amounts of tax payer money disappear. If I talked about it... if I worked there of course, someone would visit me and tell me to shut up. I would be threatened back to work if I tried to get a transfer and would be treated like total garbage. They would also put a mark on my record to keep me from applying elsewhere. Nice eh... that's if I worked there.