Marines forced out of Toledo

Marines forced out of Toledo

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Yet another city turning its back on our military.

These maneuvers are essential to our military's training and have been taking place in numerous urban areas across the country for no fewer than 15 years, when the Marine Corps determined that future wars were likely to involve considerable urban warfare, the most dangerous and demanding combat known.

In this case, as in all cases, the Marine Corps makes prior arrangements and gains approval before the exercises are put into action.

For myself, I will be contacting my elected officials regarding this issue. Those cities that are hostile to our nation's security should be punished and withholding federal funds is a good place to start.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

If were off fighting in the desert . Who's neighborhood are we gonna be fighting in to warrant the need for training in these neighborhoods? Would it not be easier to mock up a desert town from the country(s) they are fighting?

I mean does Toledo really look that much like a 3rd world country?

[edit on 11-2-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

I'm not sure how you could have not noticed that most of the fighting in Iraq has been urban warfare.

These training exercises are not just for the war we are fighting, but for the wars we might fight.

When General Krulak determined that urban warfare was a strong likelihood for future wars in the late eighties or early nineties and devised the concept of the "three block war," these exercises have saved American lives.

These exercises were conducted in New Orleans at least a couple of times while I lived there and except for the press coverage, most citizens would never have known they were taking place.

The Toledo mayor claims to love our troops, but he won't let them train in such a way as to help save their lives. One guess which party he represents.

In all fairness of Mayor Finkbeiner...

The last time the Marines were training in Toledo, many of the people there complained about it. The noise and the fear of seeing "soldiers running around". He sent the message when they visited last time that he did not want them back because the communication that last 4 times to the public was just not working. Oddly enough, the message got lost somewhere between the police and the administration. (Odd, complaining about bad communication and they loose one?)

He was doing his job, what the public of Toledo asked him to do.

I say the problem isn't him, the Marines, the public, but the communication. If the people are not being told that the training is going on, they do not know what is happening and panic. They need to work on that communication.

It has been a long time since you've lived here, Grady. The last group of exercises we had was definitely talked about and it was more than definitely noticeable. Helicopters landing in public parks, planes flying right over your house, it was not very easy to miss.

There is something stomach turning about watching things in your home rattle on shelves when a group of helicopters decides that it is going to save you the 25 cents for the vibrating bed.

They have to train somewhere though, I agree. We are of different opinions regarding the wars going on right now in Iraq/Afghanistan, but I think we can both agree that if the troops are going to be over there, then they need to have the training to be safe while they are there. Quite frankly, Toledo may be scared and they may be inconvenienced, but I am starting to believe it is high time that people should start seeing what this is like and experience it at least in some way.

And just maybe all those people in Toledo should take the time to realize that what scares them is daily life for most people in Iraq, and show a bit more appreciation for how good they have it.

reply to post by Shadow_Lord

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It would have helped if he had made his own staff aware of his displeasure with the Marines training there. His own staff have been going to meetings for months with the Marines now. Did it not occur to them to give their boss an update as to how things were going?

He should have taken the time to officially notify the Marines of his decision a long time ago.

Maybe people are finally realizing that we have no business in Iraq and because of that they refuse to let their neighborhoods be used to train soldiers who will turn around and use that training fighting an illegal war of aggression.

It is obvious that the people do not want the war. They want the troops to come home. So you suggest that they should be prosecuted for not allowing the military to train in their neighborhoods? I have a better idea...maybe the Government should start listening to it's own citizens.. remember that whole annoying "by the people for the people" thing?

reply to post by MrWendal

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Where do you get all of that from?

It sounds to me like they don't want to be bothered by the noise, not that they are protesting the war. Did anyone see any protestors waiting for the troops?

It has been a long time, but the fact that the exercises are more visible doesn't bother me, since that was hardly the main point of my post.

I have no problem with the Marines training in urban areas, even the one I currently live in.

These exercises should make every true American proud.

Clearly, there are limits as to how much disruption they have on the area where the training takes place, but in the case of the exercises in Toledo, they were taking place in the CBD on the weekend.

I can think of fewer places that are more desolate than a CBD on the weekend.

Much of combat is in the urban areas, not in the middle of no where in your perception. And if you have seen Baghdad with a population of 5 million from birds eye view or on a helo, it don't look like some shanty town with few people like you expect in a third world. Its a freaking maze there.

I live in Toledo.

No problem with the Marines training here either.

This could have been handled much differently. They could have posted this in the news papers, on television news and radio, that there would be training going on. Might not have reached everyone, but the majority of people would have known what was happening.

Our mayor is a first class idiot! check up on his past


Oh yeah and for the record, the Marines are not welcome here but the "White Supremesist" were allowed to March in Toledo...



[edit on 11-2-2008 by elevatedone]

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

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Let the Marines storm some beaches like they are supposed to and leave the house to house searches to the cop thugs that already abuse us enough.

It is SICK to have military troops around the public, getting us used to their prescence so they can slip in and assume control. The military had posse comitatus restrictions before the Traitor inm Chief Bush the drunken cockhead decided to trash so we could have troops all over the place bothering us and trying to indoctrinate us. Let them build a city in the desert if they need one; no doubt they have many already, why not train there?

Because there are no civilians around to intimidate and control. I never ever want to see troops in public; passing thru airports I see them , but in large numbers it means only one thing: Someone is sending a message: We can come into YOUR town and take over, and thats that.

I applaud the city fathers for having such insight as to protect the people from seeing all this promotion of the Bush war machine.

Glamorizing the troops is no way to end wars for profit and territory..illegal wars like we are in now.


I remember back in the 1960's when we were feeding 50,000 young men into another illegal war , on Miami Beach one day the Navy had men training on the beach, and the people were giving them hell. The residents were laughing and mocking them and shouting slogans and protesting...until finally they had to pack up and go before it got ugly. Not everyone supports sending kids to die for the profit of evil men; the military is being used for wars of aggression against nations that have done NOTHING whatsoever to us and that makes the military complicit.

Of course they are just following orders, but I recall at Nuremburg we didn't accept that excuse from the Nazi's...and hopefully one day when Bush and Cheney are sitting in chsins in the Hauge for war crimes trials neither will the justices there.

Use em, treat them well, take care of their families, but keep them away from us: Soldiers are supposed to be sent to the enemy, not to their own people.

reply to post by COOL HAND

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Oh, I can't disagree with that at all. Like I said, the problem is the communication.

From what I read (which really, who knows if it is true or not) he made it clear to his staff last year. But it never got to the right people.

Sounds more like a cover up story to me (who doesnt really follow up on something that big?)

With all of the money funneled into the war efforts, it would be interesting if they just built props. Might give pro masters a bit more work during the writers strike.

They could do the scenes from satellite pics to be even more realistic.

reply to post by eyewitness86

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My thoughts exactly.
"Friendly Fascism."

Toledo is probably a dump.

Enough for us to poop on.

I think the Mayor is within his rights and should be respected and obeyed.

I don't think any Federal law can make him change his mind.

Good for Toledo.

My apologies to the military, but it's clear that the people who give them their orders aren't much interested in the well being of the American people.

Perhaps they need to wonder why most Americans see the military training in a US city and see it as an implicit threat, not a reassuring sign that they're protected...

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

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Here is a new thread to a bill sponsored to do exactly that - remove some pork earmarked for Berleley and give it to the Marine Corp.
www.abovetopsecret.com...