England's New Super-Carriers

The final substantial part of the hull of HMS Queen Elizabeth was attached yesterday ... the front of the ski jump.

And what a ski jump. It looks really large. Maybe it's just the way the photo was taken, from the Goliath crane overlooking the dock.

LeBombDiggity
It's a controversial decision, set against the Scottish referendum for independence next year.

Which, for some bizarre reason, Nicola "Morag" Sturgeon thinks the Scots will get to keep if they go independent..

If they do vote "Yes" in 2014, you can guarantee Portsmouth will be getting a nice employment boom, regardless what she thinks.

I personally hope they don't vote yes, but if they do there is no way the RoUK would have it's ships built in a foreign country.

reply to post by stumason


This is a new warship for the Irish Navy, LÈ Samuel Beckett.

It & it's sister ship are being built at the Babcock Appledore yard, North Devon. That's in England.
An Irish ship. Being built in England. Russian ships being built in France. British warplanes built in USA. Canadian main battletanks built in Germany. Tbh I think the days of buying French or buying British "just because" is no longer an option. It's financially and militarily inefficient. But there's so many vested interests and so much history at these shipyards that the politicos will never do what is sensible.

stumason

LeBombDiggity
It's a controversial decision, set against the Scottish referendum for independence next year.

Which, for some bizarre reason, Nicola "Morag" Sturgeon thinks the Scots will get to keep if they go independent..

If they do vote "Yes" in 2014, you can guarantee Portsmouth will be getting a nice employment boom, regardless what she thinks.

I personally hope they don't vote yes, but if they do there is no way the RoUK would have it's ships built in a foreign country.

Really........Nuclear Subs. we hold the all the cards. Maybe The SNP have promised to rid Scotland of it's Nuclear weapons...they didn't say when.

reply to post by stumason


If the vote goes 'yes' clyde shipbuilding is more dead than the pythons parrot.

Its unreasonable to expect otherwise. The UK doesn't generally buy foreign warships now so its retained as a strategic capability. Theres no reason for the smaller UK post a yes vote to support employment in a foreign power when the capability can be had in house.

Some of the nationalists are either dishonest or they somehow fail to grasp that being independent means being viewed as simply another weak foreign power, with all that entails.

Gotta laugh at project fear.....Scotland doesn't need London anymore....Westmonster can fight it's own Illegal wars without another ounce of Scottish blood being spilled on the soil another S***H**E 3rd world backwater...or can it???

Vote YES and get rid of them once and for all.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


Are you arguing that the outcome will be different or you just don't care one way or the other?

justwokeup
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

Are you arguing that the outcome will be different or you just don't care one way or the other?

The Outcome of what will be different.. ?

reply to post by Soloprotocol


That it will be the final end of clyde shipbuilding.

reply to post by justwokeup

Havn't you noticed they have been dismantling those shipyards bit by bit for years...they employed tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands even at one point...now it's 2500... My house sits no more than 100 yards from the Ravenscraig..it employed over 30 thousand people at a time...i now have great views of nothingness, but we moved on.

Dont underestimate the people of Scotland not to rise above Westmonsters political decisions on which factories to close...we had it so long we are immune to the threats now...

Stick yer warships up yer proverbial...we'll build something else because we are good at it...and we will outbid anywhere in the UK.

This is who we are up against... Daewoo Shipbuilding...

reply to post by Soloprotocol


You are content to see it finally pass into history and consider it a worthwhile price. I disagree with you but its an honest answer and an honest position to hold. Were the SNP so honest I might respect them just a smidge more.

reply to post by justwokeup


A free and independent Scotland wont stand still....

reply to post by Soloprotocol


On that we agree. We simply disagree on the likely direction of travel :-)

justwokeup
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

On that we agree. We simply disagree on the likely direction of travel :-)

Where you see doom and Gloom, i see a Nation Bloom. Soar Alba.

The price for this warship project seems to have rocketed overnight by quite unbelievable proportions ... by another £800 million, bringing the total to over £6 billion. There's also the possibility the price will rise even further. How can a project be so badly mismanaged ? That's a question the Public Accounts Committee of the lower house of the British Parliament is going to be asking in their 4th investigation of this project.

www.theguardian.com...

I agree...many of these types of projects have been mismanaged. How did or is it going with the Astute class of submarines being built now as well?? Are there cost overuns here as well??

It is the same here stateside with the Ford Class carriers as well as with the Virginia class submarines.

I do not believe here stateside that the inflation factor is understood for the destructive properties it has on the ability of business to contract long term...and make a profit.
The loss in purchasing power of the dollar/pound..et al...means it is difficult to predict with certainty the profits over a long term contract such as a carrier. Particularly when it is often government who prints/borrows more monies and thus inflates the value of the currency over the length of a contract.

Is this line of thinking ever taught in public schools today? It should be.

As John Maynard Keynes himself stated in paraphrase...Inflation/depreciation turns the ability of a business to contract into a gamble and a lottery.

This from "The Economic Consequences of the Peace."

Also something else for many of you to consider...and I dont believe this is often told in the newspaper articles.

The skills/knowledges to build a ship of this type are often lost if such ships are not being continuously built. I mean from the engineers, Designers, to the mechanics, pipe fitters, pipe coverers, electricians, fitters and a host of other trades.

An aircraft carrier built to Navy specifications is not built in the manner of an Ocean Liner or a cargo/freight, oil tanker. They are built to much higher/heavy duty specifications involving combat considerations. So too with the pumps, motors, and other equipments in them. This raises prices considerably.

In addition to this ...designs and equpments have changed considerably since the last carrier was built..particularly in the UK. It is also the same here stateside since the Nimitz class ships...new designs and equipments have come about ..which of necessity are installed and manufactured differently from previous gear/equipments.

I dont believe much of this is understood by keyboard designers, engineers, architects as well as Keyboard sailors and airmen.

So many out here tend towards believing things happen because someone punched it into a keyboard...and things happen ..the shelves in our stores are filled because someone punched it into a keyboard. It does not happen in that manner.

The sad truth of it is that many of these keyboard types are also today's leaders.

I am sure that there are businesses who are taking advantage of the system out here ..but not all of them. Also...there is much about this business which the average individual does not know how it is done ...from the bottom up.

Another thing ..I am not sure if this as well ..is being told to the public.

In a project this large...the initial design and research cost is often spread over the construction of several ships or platforms.

It was so with the Los Angeles class submarines. It was only after about 10 of them were built that from a trades and design aspect ..that people began to understand and be more fluent ..competent in their jobs...from an untrained and unknowlegeable labor force..verses the previous class of submarines (637 Class) with a significantly different design and specifications.

How many carriers is the UK building to spread the costs and get the labor force efficiently skilled??
Or is this also happening because someone uses a keyboard??
Is this knowledge being taught in the politically charged news articles???

I suspect that in the UK..the fastest growing economic industry around is government. To maintain the government growth ..it is necessary to eat up and consume your military. Soon enough it will be necessary to eat up your government...to reduce costs further. But this will not happen..first they will eat up any profitable sector of your private sector...before they trim government.

It is also this way here in the States. Government is rapidly becoming the fastest growing sector of The economy. And they are clearly eating up any profitable sector of the economy to maintain government growth. Soon enough we too will be eating up our military to maintain government growth...translate that as getting/buying votes.

Some additional informations for some of you to consider.

Orangetom

reply to post by Soloprotocol


I don't know much about politics (besides the fact that they are all henchmen for big money players), but what the Chinese do with their super cheap production is killing business all over the modern world. The saddest thing for me is that this "cheap goods" mentality kills the spirit - it develops this "use it to soon lose it" pattern in the mind. I don''t know if that's a good attitude towards material objects, but it supports irresponsible behavior towards the Earth's resources - among other things.

guppy
I am just thrilled another country besides the US is getting a SuperCarrier. And who better to get them but the UK.

Except there is a cruel roumour going round they are going to be shared with the french!
As regards naval spending, in Nelsons time it was 20% of GDP, now its 3% of GDP.

reply to post by Liona


Btw,since you guys are talking so much here about the new UK aircraft carriers, see this link - recently I found this site with a page named Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier wiki

www.queenelizabethcruises.net...

Website is about Cunard cruise ship Queen Elizabeth (the new ship, not the QE2 cruise ship, to become hotel in Hong Kong, btw) and the QE aircraft carrier page is more like a fan project. But I liked it very much - very good information about various technical details, statistics, has interesting infographics too. It also shows construction news updates via links to the ACA site about the building progress of both HMS QE and HMS Prince of Whales carriers.
I'm huge fan of cruise ships, and not a huge fan of big money spending on military projects. For me QE carriers are too expensive - USD5.5 billion is way too much for one ship. But still, I was impressed by the technology and the contractors for this project - some of the biggest companies supply equipment for these warships. And I gotta say, I trust the Queen's judgment - she always know what she's doing LOL

reply to post by orangetom1999


Read a blog last week about the Chinese military, one part mentioned the Chinese navy, the PTB put their best sailors in their best submarine, out to sea it sailed, then sank with the loss of all hands, don't know what the moral is of that tail, but seems training might be really important.