The 2nd Coming of Christ, page 5

reply to post by SolPower

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Organs, bones, connective tissue, blood, stomach acids, neurons... Yup, it's all there and pretty much all I need

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
So by this reasoning, the Kalevala is perfectly historically accurate? After all it gets places and some events correct, so surely Vainamoinen really existed and was the child of the waves and the first goddess, born into a world created from duck eggs. Right?

Well, at least you understood what I was getting at. Another poster claimed the Bible was not historically reliable but this is not true. You don't have to believe The Judeo-Christian God is real (faith) just because the Bible has been verified in its historical accuracy (fact). It isn't too difficult to look around and see what is going on in the world and write about it. Fiction writers base their novels on real people and places all the time so we can claim the Bible authors did the same thing if we want to be a hardcore skeptic.

Historical accuracy alone proves nothing. One can acknowledge the Bible is historically reliable concerning the things that can be verified without believing in God. And faced with the facts, many secular scholars have done just that. But to say, "It's all wrong" is unreasonable in light of the facts. People and things like Nebuchadnezzar, The Hittite Empire, King Darius, King Cyrus, and the Pool of Bethesda (just to name a few famous examples) were believed to be Biblical fairy tales but modern archeology has now proven their existence.

It's like what I tell people when discussing the historicity of Jesus. One doesn't have to believe He was the Son of God but to ignore the evidence of His existence is denial for comfort's sake. There is no easier way to say Christianity is false than to say its founder never existed even if it is completely illogical. The same is true with the Bible's historical accuracy.

One can agree with the facts (it would be dense not to) without accepting the divine aspects. Unfortunately many deny everything because they think agreeing with anything would automatically mean they would have to accept God. When they do this, it makes them look pretty ignorant by denying the facts along with the faith.

[edit on 2/10/2008 by AshleyD]

Example: People once denied the existence of the Pool of Bethesda. Archeology has now proven it did exist and that people gathered there for its healing waters. To say Jesus healed a paralytic there would take faith. But to say it is all fantasy is not a sound denial.

Originally posted by luxor311

Its impossible for a man to walk on water... If true please show me one piece of valid evidence.

Oh yeah?

Walks on Water

Your move.

Originally posted by WolfofWar

Originally posted by luxor311

Its impossible for a man to walk on water... If true please show me one piece of valid evidence.

Oh yeah?

Walks on Water

Your move.

Haha - you do know that is a trick, right? Maybe Chris Angel is the 2nd Coming of Christ?

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
So by this reasoning, the Kalevala is perfectly historically accurate? After all it gets places and some events correct, so surely Vainamoinen really existed and was the child of the waves and the first goddess, born into a world created from duck eggs. Right?

Well, at least you understood what I was getting at. Another poster claimed the Bible was not historically reliable but this is not true. You don't have to believe The Judeo-Christian God is real (faith) just because the Bible has been verified in its historical accuracy (fact). It isn't too difficult to look around and see what is going on in the world and write about it. Fiction writers base their novels on real people and places all the time so we can claim the Bible authors did the same thing if we want to be a hardcore skeptic.

Historical accuracy alone proves nothing. One can acknowledge the Bible is historically reliable concerning the things that can be verified without believing in God. And faced with the facts, many secular scholars have done just that. But to say, "It's all wrong" is unreasonable in light of the facts. People and things like Nebuchadnezzar, The Hittite Empire, King Darius, King Cyrus, and the Pool of Bethesda (just to name a few famous examples) were believed to be Biblical fairy tales but modern archeology has now proven their existence.

It's like what I tell people when discussing the historicity of Jesus. One doesn't have to believe He was the Son of God but to ignore the evidence of His existence is denial for comfort's sake. There is no easier way to say Christianity is false than to say its founder never existed even if it is completely illogical. The same is true with the Bible's historical accuracy.

One can agree with the facts (it would be dense not to) without accepting the divine aspects. Unfortunately many deny everything because they think agreeing with anything would automatically mean they would have to accept God. When they do this, it makes them look pretty ignorant by denying the facts along with the faith.

[edit on 2/10/2008 by AshleyD]

It has been more important historically for Christians to control the masses through fear based ideals than spreading his message of love. I accept God but not that Jesus is the only way to God. To believe this and only this is may be the beginning seed of ignorance. Has Christianity really changed the world? no we still kill out of fear just as we did long before Jesus ever was.

The Koran is not the definitive word of God? and the Bible is? Interesting your bias, please explain. Once again the if this belief stems the seed of ignorance and bias.... its planted and it grows.

[edit on 11-2-2008 by luxor311]

Originally posted by luxor311
I respect your hypothesis but once again the Bible is not a historically accurate document. For example besides the Gospels there is absolutely no outside reference to Jesus and no record of his birth or crucifixion.

That simply isn't true, Hon. It's not your fault- you probably just heard it passed around so many times that you think it is true. See: HERE. There is evidence outside the Bible by secular, pagan, Jewish, and Christian sources that attest to the crucifixion but hardcore skeptics like to dismiss them due to them not being there to witness the events. Then they dismiss the eye witness accounts because they are found in the Bible. We can't win against such odd logic. I like to say in reply to them that their arguments are "too late to be reliable" by about 2,000 years.

Even authors of the day never claimed Jesus did not exist or that He was not crucified. Instead they launched into large polemics to explain what happened with alternative theories. Like Jesus was crucified but it was a "light" crucifixion He survived. Apparently they think someone can bounce back in three days after a flogging, crucifixion, and spear piercing. It would seem all they had to say was "this never happened" but nobody ever did until recent times. So, I take the accounts of people who would have known and not people who speculate.

Josephus referred to peter not Jesus as a leader of a new movement.

Not sure about this but we now several other historians credit "The Christ" with starting the movement.

His references to "jesus" were proved in 1922 by Andrew Collarth a noted Bible historian to be incorrect.

Not quite "proven." See: HERE The "Testimonium" is surrounded by a good deal of controversy but I don't know of any serious scholars that doubt the James-Jesus passage.

It has been more important historically for Christians to control the masses through fear based ideals than spreading his message of love.

Nobody can control me through anything because I'm saved through grace. I don't even go to church and the papacy is a joke to me. You can't control someone when what they believe is in their heart and they have a personal relationship with their God. They can try and some people, for some odd reason, let them come in between but many know better.

I accept God but not that Jesus is the only way to God.

That is perfectly understandable.

The Koran is not the definitive word of God? and the Bible is? Interesting your bias, please explain. Once again the seed of ignorance and bias is planted it grows.

See, that is what I mentioned above. I gave up explaining it because no matter what I say, even fact based, I'll be accused of being "ignorant" and "biased." So to save some time I say, "Why bother?" I have explored the history and facts in depth. Again I will say if I believed Islam was the true path I would be a Muslim. But because of my conclusions through about three years of exploring the topic with an open mind and heart, I have come to my decision. If that makes me "biased" and "ignorant" then I don't have anything to really say to such accusations.

reply to post by managerie

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I LOVE when people post stuff like this...

Do you care to validate your claims? Or are they just going to be further fodder, that make ATS look presumptive?

TO ALL MEMBERS... PLEASE don't claim opinion/conjecture as FACT... PLEASE!!!... pretty please?


Coven

I've always thought that the closer we get to the Return of Christ: His Second Coming, Faith would more and more become Sight, or, as others on this thread have cried: "Lack of Evidence!" would gradually change to evidence.

There is a book I purchased four years ago entitled "The Exodus Case" which I would recommend for any skeptic. Below, I have posted a picture from that book which reveals chariot wheels on the bottom of the Red Sea which were discovered. The book is fascinating! Not only were parts of chariots found but also the remains of horse skulls and bones. It is a very revealing book.

i257.photobucket.com...

i257.photobucket.com...



[edit on 11-2-2008 by jdposey]

[edit on 11-2-2008 by jdposey]

reply to post by coven

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Sure, I posted the justifications in another thread tonight:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
the posts are long, about 7 posts total from 10:43PM 2/11/08 to 11PM.
It's complicated. God showed me the pieces slowly over about 4 years.
I just put the "USA Today" synposis version in the above post. But the justifications are in that other thread.

If you don't believe it, that's fine.....just wait.

reply to post by MurderCityDevil

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I'm not going to explain to you why there IS in belief (based out of revelations) a rapture and the tribulation they speak of is the wickedness of THIS world and all those who have stayed holy and not been pulled into man's wickedness. If you read revelations in its entirety you will know when Jesus comes back his name will not be Jesus and he will be on earth during this time of tribulation because it mentions a new name will be written on a white stone and he who receives it shall have salvation. Furthermore, chapter 12 mentions of a child being born who will rule all nations with a rod of iron. It is my belief that this child has in fact been born, and we are in tribulation at the moment but every year leading up to rapture will get worse and worse. When you quote the bible don't say this isn't because or this is because thats just ignorant, lean not to your own understanding. and for others who say the bible is not a historical document, the bible is nothing but a book of prophecy most of which has been fulfilled as Ashley D has submitted in the past. Now saying the bible is a book of history that has yet to happen is a profound statement but most of the old testament prophecy has bee fulfilled and every day that passes we get closer to the second coming of Christ but i believe this time he is not all hugs and kisses because he growing up in the time of tribulation and is Jewish and not in fact a Christian as in the sense of the modern word, he would do anything to appease his father god even if it meant killing 1/3rd of the population of earth which is mentioned in revelations. read the whole book don't stop when you get to a point oh this is bull and if you think it is bull then why are you reading it in the first place?

[edit on 8-3-2008 by Kis11]

Originally posted by bamaoutlaw
so let me get this right.is the order of events i have understood correct? will the second coming of Jesus be after the antichrist has been announced? i have seen several post of signs to look for to signal the rise of the antichrist one of which was a world wide earthquake, and the other 3 i dont remember but none of the could go unnoticed!!

The Prophetic Scriptures seem to indicate strongly that there will be what is commonly called a Pre-Tribulation catching away of the followers of the Christ. After this begins a down-hill 7-year Tribulation period on earth known in Jewish theology as Daniel's 70th Week.

3-1/2 years into this, Mr. 666 is revealed as he recovers from a deadly wound, proclaims a false peace with Israel, and declares himself God and does so from the newly rebuilt Jewish Temple, performing miracles as backup.

At the end of this 7-year Tribulation, the Christ returns with His armies and wipes out the 666 man of sin as well as his religious advocate, known in The Revelation as the False Prophet. The Christ then sets up a 1000-year period of peace and ecological perfection on earth, and at the end of this 1000-year period, the devilish dragon-spirit which empowered the antichrist to perform miracles and be healed from death is taken by an unnamed angel and perpetually destroyed in an unquenchable lake of fire, along with the spirit of Death itself.

This is what the book of The Revelation and other Prophetic end-times Scriptures teach will take place.

reply to post by danieljk7

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i'm sick of these ignorant religious ppl sayin, "oh jesus! jesus!! save me jesus!! jesus! we need jesus!" if i were jesus i'd be like, "damn can't you see i got problems of my own? i got these bills to pay. i got a wife and kids to take care of. my dog just shat on my shoes. and everybody is screamin my name like i'm gonna come around and have sex w/ em. get off my nuts and find your own salvation."

Sounds like you could use a little Jesus peace right now. Look we all have problems...seek, and ye shall find. Knock and the door shall be opened to you.

Find some peace in your life...it's there for the asking.

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